Woof-Woof: Ultimate Guide to ZWEI

Alright, I got news for all of you. (B+G) MAX hold (and by "max" I really mean full hold, not mediocre hold or "barely missed it by 1 frame" hold) is well on the +19 on GRD. I've done lots of testing, and even moves like Zwei's 4A+B which is i32 will go through i13 moves if they try to interrupt you after blocking max (B+G).

Getting (B+G) max hold is VERY VERY tricky. But for the most part if you do it right you get +19-20 if they block it.. Don't forget they can tech out of it though!!

Let's abuse this grab now :]
 
If you guard break with 33B, you can BE on reaction and if there is a wall somewhere during the path of the hits it'll leave you close enough to CE. 33B (guardbreak) BE>CE>B+K>4A+B is about 152 damage.
 
outilander said:
If you guard break with 33B, you can BE on reaction and if there is a wall somewhere during the path of the hits it'll leave you close enough to CE. 33B (guardbreak) BE>CE>B+K>4A+B is about 152 damage.
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Very good finding. By the way, I got 172 damage out of it, and 200+ when I did the CE reset. So this has a lot of potential. Also, you don't need walls, right after the recovery of 33B if you step forward and activate his CE immediately you'll get it, but timing is very hard.
 
my first time reading this, i thought i was the only one that came up with some stuff i found on my own, but now i see everyone knew from the start, good stuff!
 
Ok. this is probably a shot in the dark but i think i found a situational use for Zwei's 66A(BE) (*GASP*! O.O)

The second hit tracks well so i thought "maybe i can use it for a setup out of the air or something." I try it and behold it tracks to right above them for a mid so i knew it could have potential there. i fished around with my options on it and i've concluded this:

timing wolf with a number of attacks (22/88K, 4B/4B(BE), 44Bir or 44(B), etc.) can lead to nasty setups when 66A(BE) is used on an opponent. the best way to set it up is after a CE though, so if you can pull more damage out of the setup than the CE followup (especially if the CE followup wouldn't kill them),then this BE suddenly has a use...

as an additional note, the 44Bir mixup here does massive guard guage damage, is +12 on block (but -11 on JG...T.T), stuns opponents OTG (can be put there by the 66A(BE) second hit) and can lead to a combo or another setup.

on a final note, these setups work far better on bigger hitboxes like astaroth, NM, etc.

let me know if i'm just being silly or if this could be practical guys. i have a feeling it could work but it's situational in the grand scheme...
 
Faceclaimer said:
Ok. this is probably a shot in the dark but i think i found a situational use for Zwei's 66A(BE) The second hit tracks well so i thought "maybe i can use it for a setup out of the air or something." I try it and behold it tracks to right above them for a mid so i knew it could have potential there. i fished around with my options on it and i've concluded this:
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You're right, EIN does track fairly well here.

Faceclaimer said:
Timing wolf with a number of attacks (22/88K, 4B/4B(BE), 44Bir or 44(B), etc.) can lead to nasty setups when 66A(BE) is used on an opponent.
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But, what do you mean? Non of these attacks reach far enough and 66A BE setups on standing opponents aren't worth it. In the CE setup you mentioned they can air control far enough to where running in waists too much time for setups like these. Not sure what you mean here...

Faceclaimer said:
The best way to set it up is after a CE though, so if you can pull more damage out of the setup than the CE followup (especially if the CE followup wouldn't kill them),then this BE suddenly has a use...
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I just tested and the only way outside of matchup dependant things (like Yoshi's Flea stance) seems to be off CE, its the only thing that launches high enough without cooldown. One thing I don't understand here is the damage, the CE followup is guaranteed, where this setup has multiple ways of escape.
The most damage I could get was CE, 66A BE (55 damage+) EIN, 44B, 1K BE, A+B ~ 55+93 = 148d. for 2 full meter.
They can roll EIN, block EIN, GI(4A+B+K) EIN, and step EIN if you hold too long. Ontop of that the opponent can just air control it all and be too far for any setup.
CE, B+K, 4A+B is 95d. and the setups post staple combo are more practical here, hell if you get a B+G afterwards by running in and Throwing them its 150d. for only 1 meter and thats practically a setup off just about everything.
So you risk 55d for bad setups, or you can get 95d with good setups?

Faceclaimer said:
As an additional note, the 44Bir mixup here does massive guard guage damage, is +12 on block (but -11 on JG...T.T), stuns opponents OTG (can be put there by the 66A(BE) second hit) and can lead to a combo or another setup.
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Sorry I haven't seen 44Bir written, ever, not sure what you mean. The CE staple into wake-up also can do massive Guard damage with 66A+B/ KF B/ B+K BE setups. All of which are far more practical. 44B is very specific/ risky/ hard to time/ not worth it. It would be better if it were faster and in this situation can't reach far enough. I'm guessing you mean CE, 66A {BE}, 44B EIN setup?

Faceclaimer said:
On a final note, these setups work far better on bigger hitboxes like astaroth, NM, etc.
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All setups work better on bigger hitboxes. Although I take that back because Asta oddly gets out of alot of setups.

Faceclaimer said:
Let me know if i'm just being silly or if this could be practical guys. i have a feeling it could work but it's situational in the grand scheme...
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Its not that its situational, and I respect your enthusiasm for finding 66A BE a better setup, however its almost like there are no good setups with this move and it should just be viewed as a high damage sidestep catcher. If I didn't understand anything please help me cause I had to break down your post to figure it out.
 
I use 66A BE for an attempt to catch step if not i 214B afterwards for good guard damage into his better mix up game
 
Paranormal_Oreo said:
Use 4K, B after landing CH 1B] near short walls for a wall combo and/or RO.
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good find Oreo. 4K, B is honest;y underrated in my opinion especially if the wolf covers you. it stuffs crouch with the second hit, comes out rather quick and also can be used in longer setups without leaving you too terribly open in most cases.
 
Egg said:
Better combo is 22K 4KB W!
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this is true*, though i've found the 1(B) combo note to be nice. i never really thought about using that to get the 4KB but i'm glad i know it works.

Edit*- also i'm fairly certain that 1(B) -> 4KB doesn't wallbound...
 
4KB its as bad as it seems- first its i15 which means one of Zweis only semi-decent puinshers. its kills step. Used to RO when 22K hits or Wall splats on small breakable walls. Gives good oki on hit.
 
Faceclaimer said:
this is true*, though i've found the 1(B) combo note to be nice. i never really thought about using that to get the 4KB but i'm glad i know it works.

Edit*- also i'm fairly certain that 1(B) -> 4KB doesn't wallbound...
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22K 4KB W! 1(B) Ein 4KB W! is possible.
 
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