Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

So Z.W.E.I. doesn't feel nearly as weak as I'd initially put him. Once you get a hang of how to use E.I.N. to set up your offense, it gets a lot easier to press advantages.
 
I like 2b in a lot of situations what im finding is people have a panic button to beat your pressure at a specific distance.
Its pretty useful when they seem to be using panic buttons to beat your pressure

also 8k should not be underrated at all.
 
Nothing about Z.W.E.I.'s offense, at first glance, screams "broken." In a game that is all about the Z-axis, Z.W.E.I. sometimes feels like he's 2D; his damage, while high, is not necessarily anything to write home about; and he is slow, slow, slow.

Luckily, we have E.I.N. And E.I.N. is completely. Fucking. Bonkers. Effective use of E.I.N. enables a Z.W.E.I. player to put a lot of pressure on his or her opponent from the most innocuous of openings. When one knockdown sets up a 66A+B four-way guessing game, you know you're dealing with something scary.

This guide is my attempt to explain some of what I've been trying out. These are just my four favorite set-ups; obviously, Z.W.E.I. has more moves that use E.I.N., but I think these four are far and away the best if you're simply trying to press an advantage.

4[A]
There's a lot to love about this set-up. 4A alone is an incredible move: it's duckable, admittedly, but it's also incredibly fast and has a deceptively long range. This makes 4A alone a solid poke to throw out from neutral.

E.I.N., though, makes 4A amazing. The E.I.N. portion is +8 on block. In other words, merely contacting your opponent with 4[A] is free pressure. It's a little early to be talking objectively about strategy, but I suspect that successful Z.W.E.I. players will abuse this interaction as frequently as they can without training the opponent to duck it. (Note that E.I.N. moves tend to give solid frame advantage on block, but 4[A] is notable for also being a fast poke.)

As with all of the other set-ups listed here, the E.I.N. release part of 4[A] can be delayed. This lets us set up a neat unblockable: 4[A], 214B, Release A. I don't recommend doing this too often, though - you need to have trained your opponent to be very defensive before trying, because the guard crush has a very long wind-up.

66A+B
When I'm not busy spamming 1A on downed opponents, 66A+B is my okizeme of choice. If I time it just right, I can always force rising opponents to block it, and if I mistime and they roll to the side of my initial sword swing, E.I.N. tends to hit them when they try to get up and punish me. If they block everything, I'm left with a sizable frame advantage (+15, a full quarter of a second!); if they take the hits, I get to knock off a third of their life bar.

There's an excellent mix-up opportunity here. By delaying E.I.N. just slightly, you force the opponent to quickly choose between blocking mid (say, A+B), blocking low (1A), and trying to break a throw (though throwing is sometimes impractical - E.I.N. pushes them moderately far away).

Where there's a delay-able move, there's a frame trap, and I like this one the best. Landing a delayed E.I.N. follow-up leads to tons of damage and will leave your opponent asking themselves, "Shit, why didn't I just wait and block?" Remember to be mindful of how fast your opponent is likely to react and tailor your timing appropriately - you're leaving yourself completely open, but the payoff can be immense.

1[ B]
Unfortunately, you can't really put meaningful pressure on your opponent with 1[ B] - it's only +2 on block, which makes it safe, but unremarkable. This is, however, an excellent frame trap. If I like frame trapping with 66A+B the best, I like this one the second-best. It's easy to train your opponent to block, since the natural combo follow-up does quite a bit on its own. Once they're turtling, you can start getting fancy: E.I.N. is easy to hitconfirm into, say, CE. Go nuts.

The dark horse: b+kBE
I'm only going to mention this one briefly, because I'm not yet sure about how useful it might come to be. You "store" E.I.N. for a couple of seconds, then he comes bursting out, granting you massive frame advantage on block and comboing from most things if you're hitting the opponent when it appears. If you've been itching for a way to spend meter on a pressure string, heck, this might just be for you!

The double secret probation dark horse: 66aBE
I haven't done anything with this, but our current frame data listing claims it's +30 on block. There has to be something we can do with that, guys.

(I was all set to be super excited about this move...then it turned out to be a special mid, so I can't set up unblockables. Oh, well.)

---

Whew! I hope that wasn't too dreadful. What do you all think?

WAVE OF EDITS #1: Added frame data and, in light of it, revised my 1[ B] section.
 
I like 2b in a lot of situations what im finding is people have a panic button to beat your pressure at a specific distance.
Its pretty useful when they seem to be using panic buttons to beat your pressure

also 8k should not be underrated at all.
I worry about 2B because it leaves you at -2 on hit. :| I prefer 3K or, if I need a little more range, K.
 
Something to keep in his mind is that his step BB is PUNISHABLE, whether you finish it or not. Your best bet is to do step B, delay B, which pushes them back enough so that certain characters lose their punish and leaves a gap so that you can possibly get a CH on the 2nd hit.
 
Several things i've found that i'm not sure how useful they are-
B+K BE
This seems to be really huge to his game. I can't hold it for some reason, but i see two possible setups if you can figure out how.

1. A+G seems to be screaming for this. The throw does damn little else, but sometimes i can get the hit to come out late enough after the throw that not only does it hurt like hell, but it gives a chance to combo from there.

2. CE, B+K BE, mixup.
Basically any combo that ends or uses his critical edge you hit with the B+K, then you BE it. The opponent is airborn during the animation, and then lands at your feet giving you a free mixup from hell since your little friend is about to come out and ruin anything they might do. Not sure how good this is for 1 and a half bars, so if there's some other way to set up the B+K launch it'd be worth looking into.
 
Several things i've found that i'm not sure how useful they are-
1. A+G seems to be screaming for this. The throw does damn little else, but sometimes i can get the hit to come out late enough after the throw that not only does it hurt like hell, but it gives a chance to combo from there.
A+G can be used for unblockable setups. As well as be followed ub by 4bA+B+K follow ups. Not to mention gives you some amazing mix up opportunities considering how positive you are after the grab.

On topic:
Any reason why you didn't include 6B+KA/6B+KB? They both give decent advantage on block. And I don't really see anyone managing to duck the first hit on reaction.
 
A+G can be used for unblockable setups. As well as be followed ub by 4bA+B+K follow ups. Not to mention gives you some amazing mix up opportunities considering how positive you are after the grab.

On topic:
Any reason why you didn't include 6B+KA/6B+KB? They both give decent advantage on block. And I don't really see anyone managing to duck the first hit on reaction.
I didn't include it because I haven't done too much testing with it, haha. I'll give it a try today and do a write-up.
 
Alright guys ive been working on his tech trap game, could not find anything for the life of me on a tech right after 4B besides 2k, anyone come up with anything better? I think right techs are gonna be his weak tech trap game, 3aa seems to only catch left, 66b can catch back though.

Also, yeah you can hit confirm his 33B BE real good once you practice random guard for a bit. I think you can with 4B BE but its pretty tight timing.
 
All right, I've played around with 6B+K, and I have to say I'm not impressed. The whole mix-up is slow even for Z.W.E.I. If I wanted a linear E.I.N. attack, I'd use 66A+B.
 
I wasn't really sure where to post this at but it seems that the frame data from the strategy guide is amiss.
Was doing some testing for myself and had an i23 clash with an i17 after a supposedly +2 move.
 
I wasn't really sure where to post this at but it seems that the frame data from the strategy guide is amiss.
Was doing some testing for myself and had an i23 clash with an i17 after a supposedly +2 move.
As in, one of Z.W.E.I.'s i23 attacks clashed with an opponent's i17?

That's really sexy. I'll take a +6 over a +2 any day.
 
As in, one of Z.W.E.I.'s i23 attacks clashed with an opponent's i17?

That's really sexy. I'll take a +6 over a +2 any day.
Don't get to excited about that current one it was A on hit lol.
But yes after A on hit 66B clashed with an i17
 
I don't know if this is useful/known or not but I noticed something with b+k BE. After you use it, wait until Z.W.E.I recovers from his stance and press b+k again. If you did it right he should do b+k, Ein will go away and then reappear for the original BE attack.
 
guys i want zwei to be my secondary but i actually have no clue how he should be played....I learned the combos, i read the soul arena but i just feel like a lot of his moves are useless... like 1k without BE sucks...
 
guys i want zwei to be my secondary but i actually have no clue how he should be played....I learned the combos, i read the soul arena but i just feel like a lot of his moves are useless... like 1k without BE sucks...
1K should not be used outside of combos. Honestly without enough meter to do the BE i would forgo the 1K entirely for better wakeup as the recovery is so massive that the opponent is up by the time you recover. And yes alot of his moves are useless. But that is why he has EIN. Without EIN ZWEI would probably be in a tier list of his own right under yoda. You have to use EIN to make the attacks you use safe and keep pressure on your opponent. And if you're fighting a range character you have to be patient and turtle till you have the opportunity to get in close and do some damage. He is a character you have to have good fundamentals to play.
 

Yes I played a Sieg last night and it's very tough to get in, you have to play real defensive. What would you suggest as his go to moves for his oki game Twiztid? I was using 66 A+B, 1B, 2B. Anything else of noteworthy?

Also on another note, how the hell does the guard gauge work in this. I felt like I was blinking red and then hit the opponent 3 times and it still didn't go down to yellow. How exactly does this work? I feel like getting crushed is inevitable against some characters (ZWEI being one himself).
 
So, not to be a jerk but, are you Zwei players just insanely good or are you all playing against scrubs/people who don't know the match-up? I find it insanely hard/pratically impossible to win with him against anybody who has an inkling of knowledge on when to step or TC. He's always slow and almost always unsafe, his step-kill is awful, he has no decent low, his damage and range is lackluster. Overall he shapes up to be an awful character in my hands. So how are you all doing it? :(
 
So, not to be a jerk but, are you Zwei players just insanely good or are you all playing against scrubs/people who don't know the match-up? I find it insanely hard/pratically impossible to win with him against anybody who has an inkling of knowledge on when to step or TC. He's always slow and almost always unsafe, his step-kill is awful, he has no decent low, his damage and range is lackluster. Overall he shapes up to be an awful character in my hands. So how are you all doing it? :(

exactly how i feel...
 
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