Z.W.E.I. General Discussion/Q&A

Can someone test this combo for me? 1B CH, EIN hit, 3AA, 1K BE, A+B. 99 dmg.
I have a couple things to say about this combo:
1. If 1B hits at tip range, 3AA will whiff.
2. After a 3AA if you just to 1K BE it will whiff by a hair width. You actually have to take a step forward then immediately 1K BE to get it to land. If you screw up they can ukemi or block.

I'm wondering if after the 3AA they can ukemi no matter what.
 
Bloodpixel said:
CH 1{B}, 3AA, 1K{BE}, A+B
Click to expand...

It works, but they have to be close. Problem I have is because the combo is inconsistent, risking meter for 25 extra damage doesn't seem worth it unless you can ring them out in which case A+B is better... (CH 1{B}, A+B)
EIN will whiff his hit after 1K BE in the combo because I find that 1{B}, 3AA leaves the opponent off axis. If they're close enough then 1{B}, 6A, 66A+B is better considering it gives better wake-up, no meter, and about 15 less damage, not including the 1B or 1K you get post 66A+B which bumps it up to about 90d. should they tech or be near a wall...
Close Range - CH 1{B}, 6A, 66A+B = 84d.
Mid Range - CH 1{B}, 3AA, 1B*1K = 75d.~78d.
Far Range - CH 1{B}, 66A+B*1A = 59d.~63d.
Far Range (2H) - CH 1{B} (EIN only), 66BA = 74d.
^This is what I figure are most effective.
 
I was thinking that maybe we should do match-ups threads in Heaton's style with the Raph and Sieg SA. It's alittle difficult looking for the right match-up if everything is in one thread so I think it'd be better if there was a Zwei vs Sieggy, Zwei vs Asta, Zwei vs Nighty, Zwei vs Cervy Beards, Zwei vs Patty Cakes, etc threads. (Yes, I gave them all nicknames) (>*w*)
 
Bloodpixel said:
How can I use 66A BE effectively? It doesn't seem very useful considering how you can just step the EIN hit.
Click to expand...

this move is difficult to set up. If the 66A portion hits then Ein will hit for free granted you don't charge the A for to long. On block its another matter (you can set up a frame trap but you have to have someone cornered). A nice setup I've found; is to abuse 66A+B and see if anyone steps, If they do replace 66A+B with 66A BE and if you guessed correctly then You will get the stun. Another Method is to punish or set up a frame/step trap. Experiment with what you can land with this move, you might be surprised at what you can land.
 
Bloodpixel said:
Is there any use for 3AA outside of combos?
Click to expand...

3A is seriously matchup dependant but even in matchups where 3A is bad a good read will make up for that. In my opinion it's Zwei's best step catcher, being able to answer Xiba's 22*88B (even Devil Jin's) is important, stepping-TC attacks can shut Zwei down and 3A*2A are his only ways past other than spacing. The 2nd hit of 3AA is high and can be ducked, making some characters having to check makes the first hit safe in a sense, when they duck they don't have enough frames to punish 3A at -17. So throwing out a 3A in a the right situation is beneficial in locking down your opponents at close or mid-close ranges. Use the delay on the 2nd hit to hit confirm the 3AA combo, if it gets blocked don't follow through unless you want to get punished. If the opponent is unaware of the 2nd hit or understanding that you're stopping at the first hit they may disregard ducking to check for the high and punish your -17 outright, this is when you can follow through on 3AA to interrupt thier punish, but this requires correct judgement and also means the opponent knows Zwei to some extent.
If the opponent blocks 3AA Zwei is left at -4, although at disadvantage you can followup with 2A which will hit at i17 now and TC under highs at i13, this will suprisingly interrupt many options, any mids faster than 17 frames can be 6A+B GI'd post 3AA on Grd. In a sense this is a gimmick and if its not working simply spacing the opponent out or remaining defensive are good generic options.
  • Use to lockdown at close range, stop TC+TSS attacks
  • Use the delay to hit confirm for 3AA combo
  • Stop on 3A if blocked
  • If 3AA is blocked > 2A/ 6A+B(GI)/ Spacing > are followups
If you miss the timing for 3AA combo and the 2nd hit fails to come out, Zwei is left at +2 for both Hit & CH. Throws are possible if the opponent is within range and {B} is as exceptional interrupt and spacing tool, use 4B to mix with your Throws and either 6A or AA to catch any sidestep attempt. If you delay 3AA 2nd hit too long, you will miss the timing for the combo (just like 4B BE) but the opponent will be forced to block 3AA's 2nd hit. Do some training to get the timing down.
3A BE is better reserved for punishment and combos. It can also be used against opponents who react too late on 3A to duck confirm the high, however this is risky as 3A BE is -16 on block with nothing to deter a punish and if blocked its essentially waisting meter.
The reason I say 3A is matchup dependant (at least to a certain extent) is because characters like Natsu can both punish 3A with thier 3B and simultaneously TC under 3AA with thier 3B. The Pyrrhas get thier 236:B and Aeon gets a 66K but only from the closest range. Ezio can 6AB but doesn't get the 6ABB combo if you follow through with 3AA (2nd hit is too fast for a CH combo). Algol can 66A which works from any distance, and Viola can 3B for 60 to 100+d. There are also characters like Raph who can 4{B} TC under 3AA but cannot punish the first hit, there are more ways around 3A so keep these things in mind as in a match it really comes down to the player...
 
darkwings13 said:
Question (>*.*)
How can you be a really good spacing Zwei? And is it a bad thing if I use B+K too much?
Click to expand...

The Opening: (Getting In There!)
If you mean spacing as in keeping opponents out/ away, then first you have to get in your damage.
*Throw (A+G/ B+G)
*Quick Low Hit (2K/ FC 2K)
*Quick Mid Hit (B/ 4B/ A+B/ 3B)
*Anti-Spacing (66B/ 3A/ 6A)
These four Methods combine with proper experience against opening matchup options let you get in your damage to play keep away. Try to go for a Throw or 2K first and evolve off of that.
The start of the match typically involves the opponent launching an attack, backstepping, or sidestepping. Simply dashing foward into guard can get past the generic openings. Dashing into 66B or Throw will each stop backdashing and sidestepping respectively to a degree while providing a mixup. However depending on the matchup they have an equal opportunity to shift opening momentum in their favor as well (usually with a signiture move), like Nightmare's a;g;A for example.
Zwei has opening attacks as well, 66B off the bat crouches under highs dealing good guard damage to those who block it.
1{B} although fairly risky, is great at stopping rushdown at the start of the round. Also B+K (your favorite move) is great to mash out at the start of the round, dealing with most opening moves that lack range. Unfortunately all the opening attacks can be spaced and punished when avoided.
You can also start keeping them out and let them come to you straight away, the start of the match provides a good opportunity for damage but until they hit you as well its a draw.
Get In & Keep Out:
Once you've either rushed in for damage or figured out the opponent's plans and punished them then you've got your damage and its time to run!
Zwei possesses a couple tools that push the opponent back on Grd, {B} being the important one. Enforcing {B} is also risky due to EIN being steppable to your Right leaving Zwei somewhere worse than -20 post step. This means Cervantes can 3B punish for half life. So simply using B as a one hit poke then spacing whether its blocked or hit will either draw the opponent into aggression or have them Guard in fear of EIN, and if they step on anticipation you get away cleanly each time. If they pursue your spacing, next time you do {B} EIN has a better chance at CH knockdown. Once they block {B} entirely it will give you +2 advantage and some good pushback to get away with.
Some other tools that act similarly are 4B and 66B, these moves have string followups (4B BE & 66BA) that may leave the opponent guessing giving you a chance at backdashing away. Just don't forget to make them remember the full strings from time to time. These moves lack {B}'s pushback on block and are more negative on Grd than a single B, so backstepping becomes far more risky off these moves.
While away, B+K becomes a great tool to push way or interrupt those getting too close. It gets extra range when the opponent attempts to attack, but this move fails against sidestep. B+K has no following hit but does have a good pushback on block to retreat with.
When at a very far distance, you can use EIN from 1{B] to counter sidstepping and deter rushdown. EIN can be ducked post 1{B] and certain matchups like Nightmare give him a FC 3B to hit you with while avoiding EIN. If you're too far for any of that to connect its not harmful to throw out 1{B], even if its just to test your opponent. Most of the roster have a way to deal with 1{B} even from full screen, like Algol's CE or Ezio's 6B+K corssbow shot for examples, so use 1{B} sparringly.
66A+B is the last attack involving spacing I'd like to write about however, it's use doesn't follow the other attacks principles. In a sense the other moves are used to poke or test the opponent where as 66A+B is used to press them. 66A+B is too slow to simply throw out at random, rather use it when they miss their attack. If 66B won't reach or is too slow to land a hit (maybe they're too safe post whiff), then 66A+B is the go to in this situation. It will damage the opponent's guard meter heavily and give you +6 to escape with should they block EIN. Since the opponent misses their move you can use their disadvantage to in a sense "speed up" 66A+B making it risky to evade or unavoidable altogether. All characters can either GI or JG EIN's hit, GI being the most effective leaving you at -27 to fend off their momentum. Should they JG EIN, it leaves you at -3 and they avoid most of the pushback but you are safe and can still get away also, the longer you delay EIN the more advantageous you are when they do JG. Unforunately delaying EIN too much lets them sidestep to your Right, with 66A+B being -20 on block you can't be punished if they step but you can't move either without taking a serious risk. The biggest advantage of 66A+B is that you're attacking, you can't run without covering your arse, you don't have to defend 100% with this style of play, its healthier to attack from time to time and boss the opponent around. Use offense to to aid your escape.
Recap:
Get your damage in, rush foward into Throw/ 2K/ B/ {B} then get away.
Keep away with {B}/ B+K and use 1{B} from far range to deter rushdown.
Use 66A+B to press the opponent for whiffing.
Know what each character can do, how to get around it, and what to hold back on in certain matchups.
Poke with single B's and play mind-games with EIN.
Use offense to aid your escape.
And just mentioning this but "Time is your best friend" so pay attention to the clock.

Good Day and Take Care,
Your Friend & Mine: Bear
(This rhymes and I must confess, I love you)
 
Oh yeah, if the opponent does (somehow) block {A}/ 4{A} (or any setup)/ {B}/ 1{B} (or any setup)/ 1K BE/ 6B+KA,EIN*6B+KB,EIN/ 66*33A BE/ 33B BE (all hits)/ 44*11B/ 66A+B (or any setup)/ KF B/ B+K BE (or any setup) > you have the advantage to escape with. All these moves on block net you a backstep to get away.

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk, This Guy >_>
 
I believe it's good when you want to get out of being cornered and pressured since you hit them and land behind them for breathing space. I rarely use it though. Be wary, if you misjudge, you'll land right in front of them and they'll hit you in the face for that big mistake.
*If you want to be flashy; do this on a almost dead opponent. CE, B+K, 66B+K. You'll make Zwei look real good when if you finish a round with that lol. Of course, the CE, B+K, 4A+B is better but again, if the opponent is going to die, then you might as well be stylish xD
 
The 66B+K is a get out of pressure move. It's pretty useful to get out of some 50/50 situations. Now that I think about it someone should make a list of what 66B+K can't jump over.
 
hello everyone, i couldnt find a combo thread so yeah:

CE B+K BE 1K (or ~1B) 1A (is this known)

there is a specifc follow up (either 1K or 1B) based on what the CE combos on. i also noticed you have an extra 25% meter left and deal great damage in exchange.

you can do 66A+B, but ein will be in cool down due to the BE, however there might be a specific timing, same for 1K BE
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back