Zwei pessimist discussion

The zwei player was good but he got away with 4[A] into his guard crush (214B) with EIN....those who know zwei will almost always interrupt that setup.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
The zwei player was good but he got away with 4[A] into his guard crush (214B) with EIN....those who know zwei will almost always interrupt that setup.
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Even if the opponent knows zwei, It is your job as the player to train them to respect and block your setups. yes that maybe hard to do considering its rather easy to get discouraged with zwei but if your opponent keeps getting nailed by the setup then keep doing it.
 
AyaImmortal said:
Even if the opponent knows zwei, It is your job as the player to train them to respect and block your setups. yes that maybe hard to do considering its rather easy to get discouraged with zwei but if your opponent keeps getting nailed by the setup then keep doing it.
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Yeah good point
 
I dont think it matters if ppl start to delay the 4(A) set up as u can clearly interrept zwei before he does that unblockable setup....even if he releases ein early its not so hard to tell the diffrence between an early release and the delay setup. If u getting hit by that 4(A) 214B EIN setup its either u dont know how to fight zwei or u haven't fought him enough.
 
In theory many things can be easily interrupted, blocked etc. In game it often does not sound so simple

Of course I admit that if 4A is taken on block then opponent have enough time to react properly. But if 4A hits, then time for reaction shortens drasticaly since Zwei is on frame advantage large enough to get to 214 stance and thus giving his rival a guess to deal with.
 
It was clear that Toilet's opponent's didn't know the match-up well, and he still lost. Most of the "setups" you guys are so hype about are easily avoided by anyone who knows the match-up.

ZWEI is my secondary. I think I can maximize my damage a bit more, but otherwise I think I play very well with him. When I play against someone who doesn't know the match-up, I obliterate them. I make ZWEI look top tier. But when I play someone who knows when to step and when to interrupt, it's a huge uphill battle.

ZWEI is the worst character in the game IMO. I can't see anyone making a compelling argument that he's anything but bottom 5. The only way he will ever win a major is if most of the people in the tournament don't know the match-up.
 
Its true, Zwei is still a bad character, probably bottom 3. He has too many bad match-ups to ever be tourney viable. He does have probably the longest list of gimmicks in the game though, so he is a lot of fun to use and you can still win a lot in a more casual setting.
 
ZWEI is definitely fun to play, I just wish he had some solid stuff that wasn't so easily punished.

I'll be using ZWEI as my lead-in character at MLG Anaheim. Since it's 3 out of 5 matches the entire tournament, I feel comfortable leading with ZWEI and switching to my main if I lose, having 2 matches left to make a comeback. Maybe I'll get some stream time, we'll see.
 
Don't get me wrong guys im a zwei player myself. Zwei is a fun char we pretty much all know his strengths and weaknesses. But if you think he's tourney viable or think he is mid tier then sorry but that is where u cross the line. Ofc this is in all my opinion feel free to flame me if u want and Im not gonna be negative in this thread for now on :/ pretty much there are other zwei threads to complain or be negative.

But like Dr.Dogg said above me these are setup's that if u know zwei well, erm they just wouldnt work or barely even work :/ but lets just "try".........to find some.......good things and setups for zwei.
 
First I already said in my previous post I wasn't going to be negative anymore...and who says we can't win with him? we're simply saying its an uphill battle to win with him, no question about it.
 
If one is about to simply multiply the same patterns then he will loose most likely.
Feel the same as Belial that Zwei is definitely not a low tier character.
It's kinda like with Siegfried. Many people talk about how weak character he is. And yet he is not as weak as most people say.

Perhaps time will tell different but as for now, I can put Zwei among other mids. At least. Not sure about him being high though but I don't say it's not possible either.
 
Belial said:
ZWEI is tourney viable. He is not low tier. I think he is high tier, not top, but very strong. Totally possible to win and place top 8 at majors.
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I have fun playing ZWEI and I rarely post here because you guys are delusional. But when I do post to correct some misconceptions, you don't need to tell me to stop posting. Instead, you should be telling me what ZWEI has that makes him anything but low tier. List off what you think makes ZWEI so good and we can discuss the matter so that perhaps you can enlighten us in these dark times.

From my point of view, if he's tournament viable then you are not showing us how that's possible. I watched your matches that you posted from that stream. Your opponents weren't even ducking 66BA half the time. That's not what I call playing against people who know the match-up.
 
This is topic delivers!

On topic, I'd have to go back and watch the vids again, but I'm pretty sure Belial conditioned his opponent's to hesitate on a lot of the stuff he did. Also, I'm pretty sure Omega knows ZWEI. And, in my honest opinion, the only reason Toilet lost to Hyrul was because he didn't know how to deal with crybaby and lost momentum every time his stuff got stuffed by it.
 
*sigh* Maybe I need to play some of u guys offline then.
 
Belial said:
Maybe I can see your vids against awesome players who do know the matchup then?
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Why? I specifically asked you to list what you're using with ZWEI that makes him so good. Clearly, whatever I'm doing (and most of the other ZWEI players) is not working.

So again I ask you... please enlighten us in these dark times. Let's discuss your strategies and figure out what's solid and what's just a gimmick.
 
I have already posted a huge guide on ZWEI. Yet people say : "enlighten us"
I post videos and people say "this players aint good enough"
I just won a tournament, but I foresee you say "but it wasnt a major!"
If my gameplay doesnt satisfy please post some vids of anti-zwei strategies so my partners can learn and adapt them and next videos will be better.

I have done all I can to enlighten you. Saving you from yourself is above me.
 
Is it just me or are half the SAs here filled with people who think the characters they use are bottom tier and weak? Is it like this with all fighting games when they are released?

I also cannot stand the argument "IF the TWO players are of equal skill, exact equal skill, like....clones really, then ZWEI will always lose to (insert NM, Mitsu, Alpha whatever here)!!!" I always thought the idea was to be BETTER than your opponent, know the roster and counters, outsmart them, and use mind games. Apparently this game is only about damage, safety, and combos and I was just missing the point.

I guess if you know every single move in ZWEI's list, the timing and delay for each one, different traps and unblockables they can create, when your opponent is going to uses every said attack, react, and use the appropriate punish for each move then, he has to be cake...almost like every other character in game. Funny that.

BTW, for my play style here's what I find his strengths to be for me(mind this is against friends who know the matchup)

Frame Traps: His aren't like other characters who have FAST and SLOW. His is FAST to VERY SLOW, covering the whole spectrum in between. If you seriously can use that to your advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

Tech Traps: Seeing a pattern here? Once again it involves outsmarting your opponent and making your own opportunities. Most of my no meter high damage comes these. B+K, 44a, 66A+B alone nets in about 140 damage. Use 1A and 44A to punish rollers, and 44B+K to punish guarders. Just a small handful

Damage: Mentioned it before, kind of self explanatory, but a lot of zwei's attacks either so solid damage or hit like a truck. He's no Nightmare but he doesn't have to be win, that's someone else's shtick.

Mind Games: Even to those familiar with zwei, a LOT of his moves look very similar and have similar properties. Unless you're fighting the AI, or something similar that can't feel confusion or pressure, its going to work, sometimes. It's not something numbers on a spreadsheet can tell you how to do right, find what works for you. If none then someone more straight forward is probably for like Voldo /troll.

TL;DR ZWEI isn't like other characters, don't use him like them.

Oh and kids, try not to use the A in 66B,A so much, 66B leaves you safer, and on hit leads basically to the same traps. Then after not using it for a while, bust it out and what hilarity ensue :D.

EDIT: OH, and unblockable set ups, and a bunch more stuff I forgot..
 
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