SC4 Committee

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Alex.J said:
All this committee is going to do is add more drama. No one in this community is really willing to do what needs to be done for the best of the community. What would be best for the community would be to ban nothing. The real goal should be to cut out the complaining, whining, and the victim attitude everyone has in this game. If you let people think they are getting wronged when they play this game they are obviously not going to like it as much. We have created a negative stigma of broken and cheapness around this game. Although in reality there is nothing cheap about it. Everyone can choose who they want and if someone wants to choose a weaker character it isn't the games fault. If we ban anything at all it sends a clear message to people they are getting wronged and it's the games fault and not theirs. Which is completely BS, in what tournament should we cater to the weakest players? We should cater to people like RTD who does play to win. There is a reason the SF community works this way because banning is a dangerous thing. The attitude of being a victim is far more dangerous than anything banning will solve. But of course no one will agree with me and we will continue to argue because this is the SC community.
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I 100% agree with you but I just want the community to come to an agreement on SOMETHING lol
 
Alex.J said:
All this committee is going to do is add more drama. No one in this community is really willing to do what needs to be done for the best of the community. What would be best for the community would be to ban nothing. The real goal should be to cut out the complaining, whining, and the victim attitude everyone has in this game. If you let people think they are getting wronged when they play this game they are obviously not going to like it as much. We have created a negative stigma of broken and cheapness around this game. Although in reality there is nothing cheap about it. Everyone can choose who they want and if someone wants to choose a weaker character it isn't the games fault. If we ban anything at all it sends a clear message to people they are getting wronged and it's the games fault and not theirs. Which is completely BS, in what tournament should we cater to the weakest players? We should cater to people like RTD who does play to win. There is a reason the SF community works this way because banning is a dangerous thing. The attitude of being a victim is far more dangerous than anything banning will solve. But of course no one will agree with me and we will continue to argue because this is the SC community.
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wow, you're missing the point (well mine anyways). My whole goal or idea or whatever you call it is to create something uniform for the entire community. not to implement bans. All we really want to have a completly uniform ruleset, not to ban anything. No where in any of my posts about this talks about banning shit (even tho i still think binding is stupid.) All i'm looking for is some clarity of rules, that way to be fair, everyone would be on the same page. That is my only goal for this comittee
 
Like I said before, there's no point in trying to get a committee started because there is nothing to discuss because all this thread is is a segment from the previous thread on the same subject of banning Hilde.

All I want you guys to do is to do things that make sense and not waste time on pointless things that create more drama. So like I said before, only one region is or may implement a ban which still hasn't been made official yet. Since no other region is going to, then there's nothing to discuss.

And if no other region is implementing a ban, then there's no need for a national ruleset since everyone else would be allowing everything and be on the same page with nothing to clarify.

What I think you guys should do is take a deep breath and relax and get away from these discussions on bans and committees for a while because discussing this shit on the internet on a forum does not work. Things like this need to be discussed either in person or outside the realm of a forum.

For now, focus on keeping your local scene alive. If you don't have to worry about a dropoff when the fall and Tekken arrive, then you're good.

Also, I doubt we will get everyone on the same page since there is so much difference of opinion. Also it doesn't matter how a decision is obtained, whether by vote, committee, or dictatorship because people are going to whine regardless because it's impossible to please everyone with this game without the support of NB. So my suggestion is to wait and see how things pan out. Once the ban is official and shows that it is a success after giving it some time to flesh out, then I feel that everyone else should follow suit, especially now that Hilde has been nerfed in BD. If it fails, then it fails and we'll be right back to where we started.
 
As Chickenwing said, the only goal of this should be to create a unified set of rules that people can refer to if necessary. Guidelines, not forcing certain areas to comply with anything. Posts degrading that goal and dismissing it as a waste of time and energy are a waste of time, energy and space themselves.

Same goes for the tier list that SU is trying to build. Considering he's gathering matchup opinions from top-level character mains, I expect it to turn out to be a great resource that we currently lack.
 
The only kind of ruler that ever works is a pompous asshole. So, a committee is no better than a government, which is something I will stand against just for its nature. I think we should be glad people host tournaments to begin with. Though, I question their intention behind it many times, discussing the rules with them is the best option.

Our scene has proven that the best ruleset is no ruleset at all (no bans whatsoever). The only agreement is on the tourney format itself. Good day.
 
Alex.J said:
But of course no one will agree with me and we will continue to argue because this is the SC community.
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I agree with you completely.

I think that individual people can definitely change, but the community as a whole will not. The fact that there are character bans in prettymuch every country is proof of this. These bans are the manifestation of the attitudes of the community across the world (the attitutes are the problem). Especially considering how none of the hated characters won evo or nationals, and yet it's STILL like this makes the situation look completely hopeless to me.
 
Eyce_Theon said:
Same goes for the tier list that SU is trying to build. Considering he's gathering matchup opinions from top-level character mains, I expect it to turn out to be a great resource that we currently lack.
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A conflict in player styles with the same characters makes it meaningless, IMO. The difference is so great that a general tier list is a better reference point when developing your character. You will ultimately decide which matchups work against you when you become good yourself. That depends how much you actually care to travel, though.
 
Vincent said:
A conflict in player styles with the same characters makes it meaningless, IMO. The difference is so great that a general tier list is a better reference point when developing your character. You will ultimately decide which matchups work against you when you become good yourself. That depends how much you actually care to travel, though.
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I fully agree that a player should make his/her own decisions on matchups after they've learned how to fight those character's effectively, but that applies to any tier list or matchup chart, not just one that isn't created by top players. That doesn't even make sense. I'd rather hear what a pro has to say about a character's strengths, weaknesses, and matchups than other people who have only had moderate success with them.
 
Malice said:
Like I said before, there's no point in trying to get a committee started because there is nothing to discuss because all this thread is is a segment from the previous thread on the same subject of banning Hilde.

All I want you guys to do is to do things that make sense and not waste time on pointless things that create more drama. So like I said before, only one region is or may implement a ban which still hasn't been made official yet. Since no other region is going to, then there's nothing to discuss.

And if no other region is implementing a ban, then there's no need for a national ruleset since everyone else would be allowing everything and be on the same page with nothing to clarify.

What I think you guys should do is take a deep breath and relax and get away from these discussions on bans and committees for a while because discussing this shit on the internet on a forum does not work. Things like this need to be discussed either in person or outside the realm of a forum.

For now, focus on keeping your local scene alive. If you don't have to worry about a dropoff when the fall and Tekken arrive, then you're good.

Also, I doubt we will get everyone on the same page since there is so much difference of opinion. Also it doesn't matter how a decision is obtained, whether by vote, committee, or dictatorship because people are going to whine regardless because it's impossible to please everyone with this game without the support of NB. So my suggestion is to wait and see how things pan out. Once the ban is official and shows that it is a success after giving it some time to flesh out, then I feel that everyone else should follow suit, especially now that Hilde has been nerfed in BD. If it fails, then it fails and we'll be right back to where we started.
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I'm starting to agree with Malice on this. I guess we are just spinning our wheels with the committee thing. Even if NJ or the tri-state area makes a ban on Hilde, we won't do it in Texas so I guess it really doesn't matter. I'm personally of the opinion that we shouldn't ban characters or bindings but again that's just me.

I guess all we can really do is focus on our individual communities. If Texas is still playing this game a year from now after T6 is out then I think that will be a huge success. Hopefully, Namco will give us SOMETHING so we're able to keep going until then. Until they make some changes for us we have an uphill battle.
 
The best thing I can do right now, is sit back let people argue until they are bored of it, collect opinions that matter to me, continue to talk on a personal level with players whom I seek answers from, wait until I have time to come up with some solid plans and then lay them on the community. ALL will be open to discussion from there.

that is what I plan to do...

Committees? Didn't work before, won't work now. One supreme guy, DEFINITELY does not work around here.

What it will come down to is players, who are still passionate about the game and the community, talking to each other, gathering ideas and coming to informed conclusions about how we handle shit. WHAT EVERYONE needs to do is stop puffing out your e-chest and stop giving in to every little argument and flamebait that comes your way, spewing the rhetoric that just keeps getting recycled around here.

Those of us working on making shit right, do so without having to worry about what some useless forum troll has to say about any ideas we have. When we have a solid idea, it will be presented and put into action, and from there we will be able to see how everyone reacts to it. The constant 'talking' about 'what needs to be done' is useless, we need action and we'll get it soon.

Mark my words.

cha cha
 
AkazukinChaCha said:
The best thing I can do right now, is sit back let people argue until they are bored of it, collect opinions that matter to me, continue to talk on a personal level with players whom I seek answers from, wait until I have time to come up with some solid plans and then lay them on the community. ALL will be open to discussion from there.

that is what I plan to do...

Committees? Didn't work before, won't work now. One supreme guy, DEFINITELY does not work around here.

What it will come down to is players, who are still passionate about the game and the community, talking to each other, gathering ideas and coming to informed conclusions about how we handle shit. WHAT EVERYONE needs to do is stop puffing out your e-chest and stop giving in to every little argument and flamebait that comes your way, spewing the rhetoric that just keeps getting recycled around here.

Those of us working on making shit right, do so without having to worry about what some useless forum troll has to say about any ideas we have. When we have a solid idea, it will be presented and put into action, and from there we will be able to see how everyone reacts to it. The constant 'talking' about 'what needs to be done' is useless, we need action and we'll get it soon.

Mark my words.

cha cha
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As nice as this may sound I would rather see some kind of progress.

The big picture here is Nationals...regardless of how we might feel about rules in other major/small tournaments...

The road to Nationals has to have a clear cut rule-set and structure to it, that way all regionals are on the same page.

We don't need a governing body, like a committee or whatever...but what is certain is that both SC3 & SC4 Nationals had a good number of issues. And one of the biggest factor for all these issues is the lack of communication and clarity in forming and effectively running the event.

The ban issue won't go away, it will most definitely show up then. So instead of having these threads pointlessly popping up again and again, and locking them is like cutting off individuals freedom of speech within our community.

Organize the very same people you will need for Nationals, tournament directors, thoroughly discuss this stuff, get everyone on the same page...and then be done with it. No one will fault you guys if you're to fail, although it's quite necessary to have a set structure come nationals...

The only thing people need is to see that we actually give a damn about our own community...lets end this thing now. That way when future installments of SC come out we don't have to be plagued with these issues.

What I am saying here, if you want to avoid the wall^^^

We're going to need a concrete rule-set for nationals, so it's is best for us to resolve these ban issues now, so that we don't have to worry about it later.
 
KingAce said:
We're going to need a concrete rule-set for nationals, so it's is best for us to resolve these ban issues now, so that we don't have to worry about it later.
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There is only one way to resolve the ban issues and it's like I said, we have to change peoples perception. Any bans will just reinforce their negative perception on the game. There are a lot of things players do in this community that unintentionally or purposely hurt it. Saying frequent things like "Namco doesn't care about us" makes people think the game is against them and its unfair. Who wants to play an unfair game? It's also far from the truth, Namco has put time to get rid of things the higher level players complained about. There's a reason Hilde's kick doesn't work the same in BD, there is also a reason in SC3AE that X's cancel and VC was gone. If people think the game is wronging them, then a simple Hilde ban will not make them happy. They will still complain about Amy, Algol, button binds, and anything else they can think of.
 
Alex.J said:
There is only one way to resolve the ban issues and it's like I said, we have to change peoples perception. Any bans will just reinforce their negative perception on the game. There are a lot of things players do in this community that unintentionally or purposely hurt it. Saying frequent things like "Namco doesn't care about us" makes people think the game is against them and its unfair. Who wants to play an unfair game? It's also far from the truth, Namco has put time to get rid of things the higher level players complained about. There's a reason Hilde's kick doesn't work the same in BD, there is also a reason in SC3AE that X's cancel and VC was gone. If people think the game is wronging them, then a simple Hilde ban will not make them happy. They will still complain about Amy, Algol, button binds, and anything else they can think of.
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Point is, come Nationals, it will be unfair and stupid to tell players they can't use a character they have been practicing with....nor will it make sense to allow shit no one is ready for. If we get these things organized right away the road their will be a smooth one.

This whole thing about changing people's perceptions is a dream. If something looks ugly in someone's eyes ain't no way you can change his perception on that. They might learn to tolerate it, but they won't love it.

Namco is what Namco is...nothing else to really add to that. I would rather have a patch or downloadable content, or even an arcade version of SC4 than BD honestly. It's just another way for them to make money anyway...I can't close my eyes to that, unless BD somehow influences SC4 for the console in some way shape or form.

I won't knock the game because it's great step forward for the company, but where I stand it does nothing for me. All those new additions, upgrades and balancing are on the wrong system...unless we can make that game competitive somehow.
 
KingAce said:
Namco is what Namco is...nothing else to really add to that. I would rather have a patch or downloadable content, or even an arcade version of SC4 than BD honestly. It's just another way for them to make money anyway...I can't close my eyes to that, unless BD somehow influences SC4 for the console in some way shape or form.

I won't knock the game because it's great step forward for the company, but where I stand it does nothing for me. All those new additions, upgrades and balancing are on the wrong system...unless we can make that game competitive somehow.
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This is exactly right KingAce.

I really don't see how saying Namco "doesn't care about us" implies the game is against us or unfair. It just means it's not supported correctly which is exactly the truth. The changes they made in BD don't matter unless they patch SC4. And tbh, those changes should have been done already but if they come out before or at the same time as BD then that's good enough. Seriously, they're even adding 2 new characters that would be great for SC4. If it IS all about money like KingAce said, and it is, then they should just charge us for it. But to not even allow that is pretty much the epitome of "not caring." But we will wait and see.

Banning characters or bindings is unnecessary and shouldn't have been done in the first place. Especially if we want people to respect our game. But it is pretty clear that Namco favors other games over ours and that's just something we have to deal with.
 
To say that any major game developer doesn't care about their customers is ridiculous. They care or they die, especially in this decade's economy, and everybody knows it. Not even the Wii prints money anymore.
 
PhilBond said:
To say that any major game developer doesn't care about their customers is ridiculous. They care or they die, especially in this decade's economy, and everybody knows it. Not even the Wii prints money anymore.
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Ok...

Since my statements are clearly being blown out of proportion, let me clarify with a question. Does anyone believe that support for Calibur and support for Tekken are equal? I seriously doubt so. But anyways, I digress from the topic.

Committee or no committee, that is the question. I say no to one now after hearing many good arguments against it. However, I DO think we need to come up with a general ruleset for the National tournaments so there is no confusion no matter what happens in specific regions.
 
KingAce said:
This whole thing about changing people's perceptions is a dream. If something looks ugly in someone's eyes ain't no way you can change his perception on that. They might learn to tolerate it, but they won't love it.
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It's true you can't force someone to love something but you can create an atmosphere where loving a game is much easier. Part of the reason people consider something is ugly is because they were told that. There was a time where people thought fat people were sexy. So obviously what people say in this community has a strong effect on people who play the game. If we are trying to get people to play a game I don't see how complaining about how cheap it is will help people to play it. It's like trying to sell a car and talking about how bad it is and how there are better cars out there. Sure people have their initial opinion of the car but it changes depending on what you say about it.
 
Alex.J said:
It's true you can't force someone to love something but you can create an atmosphere where loving a game is much easier. If everyone you play with bitches about the game, the chances of you loving it are pretty slim.
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That would be an example of changing conditions to AFFECT other's perceptions, which works fine on a personal level. In order to that apply that to a national level, you'll need an image to apply it to. We don't really have a national standard, and mostly just look disorganized from the outside. Preparing for Nationals now is a head start at changing that image.

And to all that you just edited in, same response. Do what you can locally, but it's not like an internet forum won't have people complaining about what they don't understand.
 
i think the community should just work on a anti top characters thread with there selected character and by that i mean is just like the matchup thread focus on tactics to make it easier to play against algol, hilde, amy, voldo, kilik blahblahblah i think at that point ppl wont care about banning cause everyones efforts have bean put into anti strats for these characters and not likeing button binds means some moves will be impossible so thats just stupid
 
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