Tier Discussion

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Everyone discounts Viola. I'm pretty sure you'll see her raise up soon.

Good variety of tech ducks and steps, nice launcher, huge carry range and a decent Viola is really annoying to guard crash. Why is it hard to guard crash her, you ask? Because you're in the air for like 10 seconds off of one combo and every second is restoring some of her guard. If she's not doing combos, she's knocking you down/back/up with that auto-tracking magic ball to allow even more guard heal time.

Punishment comes in the form of light damage while building meter and guard with a large possibility for RO because of the carry distance of her combos. Completely unique mechanic to this character that seems completely overlooked.
 
Dullyanna said:
Discussion shouldn't be discounted imho. Just don't go out of your way to make a list, instead focus on current "status" of characters that you know shit about.
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Ok. Fair enough. But I just think there's a difference in saying "so-and-so might be top/bottom/mid/whatever" vs "this character needs a nerf/buff or has to be top tier since I can't beat them".

As long as we all understand that no character's true potential has been revealed yet, discussion is fine.
 
Supa said:
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I saw her on the stream. (And everyone else did too. Haaaaaaaa!)

I knew she had something to do with whiff punishing before? But... it was kind of crazy. Balls flying everywhere, from above, from behind, down low, too slow

She's like... full-screen rushdown.

Whaaaaa?
 
DrakeAldan said:
She's like... full-screen rushdown.

Whaaaaa?
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So far, I think it's pretty hard for her to capitalize on the ball (except for the BE after knockdown, of course) and I have no idea what use her CE is supposed to be other than mix-ups like Venom from Guilty Gear.

The ball doesn't make many opportunities from range because she simple has no range without it. It's not like she can cover a full screen smack with the ball and capitalize with her relatively short range attacks.

Generally always break A throw because her B throw is Zzzz. A leads into a combo if she's VS.
 
lol...Having more moves than just bombs is true. Having high damage combos that dont rely on them is false.

Since I play quite a bit of her - and i know to punish her bombs + high risk moves like her rolls. I don't think i've ever lost to a natsu.. Once people learn how to deal with her she is very easily meh.
 
Zoidberg747 said:
Anyone asking for buffs/nerfs already is out of their mind. It is WAY to early to do that crap. And I am an MK player, I know what overpatching will do to a gameXD
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This is the realist shit posted in here. Just wanted to emphasize that.
 
Is there really a low tier in this game? I see people saying Sigfried, Aeon, and ZWEI are the weakest characters, but none of them seem to be that bad(or even bad at all). Although, I can completely understand the arguments that most characters are obviously better than these 3.
 
Pat728 said:
Is there really a low tier in this game? I see people saying Sigfried, Aeon, and ZWEI are the weakest characters, but none of them seem to be that bad(or even bad at all). Although, I can completely understand the arguments that most characters are obviously better than these 3.
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They're not bad, but they need work, especially in the damage department. In fact, the damaging for most characters is funky
ZWEI, Viola, Hilde, Aeon, and Ivy need a damage buff to make up for their flimsy movesets. Siegfried is fine, they might need a small damage buff, but he's still very workable in his current state.

Natsu needs a damage nerf.
 
EastredDragon said:
They're not bad, but they need work, especially in the damage department. In fact, the damaging for most characters is funky
ZWEI, Viola, Hilde, Aeon, and Ivy need a damage buff to make up for their flimsy movesets. Siegfried is fine, they might need a small damage buff, but he's still very workable in his current state.

Natsu needs a damage nerf.
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Just because Natsu SEEMS overpowered now, does not mean she is. There is still so much tech and moves that have not even been discovered yet. If they nerf Natsu now, people could figure her out and she could really be mid tier at best, but now that she is nerfed she is shit tier. Same thing with giving damage buffs, ZWEI and Viola could have some new tech that someone finds that makes them hard to fight against, then with the buff they will almost be broken.

IMO there should be NO buffs/nerfs until the game is at least 2 months old, maybe more.
 
EastredDragon said:
They're not bad, but they need work, especially in the damage department. In fact, the damaging for most characters is funky
ZWEI, Viola, Hilde, Aeon, and Ivy need a damage buff to make up for their flimsy movesets. Siegfried is fine, they might need a small damage buff, but he's still very workable in his current state.

Natsu needs a damage nerf.
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Instead of buffing the damage for ZWEI, Viola, Hilde, Aeon, and Ivy i'd prefer to see damage nerfed across the board for characters that seem overpowered. Would make fights last a little longer than hitting a combo > CE > combo > game over.
 
I think Viola is going to make it to at least mid, probably upper-tier. Natsu is very, very good. But she isn't head-and-shoulders above everybody else like SCIV Amy.

This game actually seems more balanced to me. There are obviously some characters who are better than others, but the differences between them don't seem as extreme to me. At least not yet. I think that lower tiers will be more viable this time around.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, as I play as Raphael. XD
 
Like any game, the gap between low and high increase over time, because the cause of tiers isn't usually just due to strong moves from the high, but design flaws on the low.
I played MK too. Given the choice between underpatching and "overpatching" I'll take MK any day, and so is Evo. One patch every 3-6 months is not a problem. One patch every 1 month to short-term fix an infinite is not a problem. I don't understand the community complaining about NRS patch policy. At the end of the day, NRS cared more about their community in 1 year than NB did the entire lifespan of SC4.
 
Habast said:
I think Viola is going to make it to at least mid, probably upper-tier. Natsu is very, very good. But she isn't head-and-shoulders above everybody else like SCIV Amy.

This game actually seems more balanced to me. There are obviously some characters who are better than others, but the differences between them don't seem as extreme to me. At least not yet. I think that lower tiers will be more viable this time around.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, as I play as Raphael. XD
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I've a feeling Raph will be quite high up in the tier lists, he's the one character i'm having issues dealing with online, Natsu not so much anymore. I've spotted a few weaknesses on her that can be exploited quite nicely and her gimmicks are easily avoidable if you know what you're looking for.

Of course its all subjective, some characters just naturally have a strong nemesis who causes them problems. The game hasn't even been out a week here in the UK so it will be interesting to see how things pan out in the long run.
 
I don't understand people calling to nerf damage on heavy hitters and to buff the lighter hitting characters. If you nerf damage on someone like Astaroth or Nightmare, where's the incentive to play a character with slower attacks? "Even damage potential" is not good, because some characters are designed to hit faster, more often, and for less damage (i.e. Yoshi, Viola, Voldo, etc.) and others are designed to hit less often, for more damage (i.e. Astaroth). This is an integral part of character and game design. Hasn't SC always been this way? The idea of a Viola damage buff terrifies me.
 
D_Matt_Ma said:
Like any game, the gap between low and high increase over time, because the cause of tiers isn't usually just due to strong moves from the high, but design flaws on the low.
I played MK too. Given the choice between underpatching and "overpatching" I'll take MK any day, and so is Evo. One patch every 3-6 months is not a problem. One patch every 1 month to short-term fix an infinite is not a problem. I don't understand the community complaining about NRS patch policy. At the end of the day, NRS cared more about their community in 1 year than NB did the entire lifespan of SC4.
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Patching Infinites is fine. It was changing the properties of moves every patch that pissed me off. Moves i used to be able to punish became safe. Moves of my own became safe. Noobs clones became a mid screen mix-up when all you had to do was crouch block to get in. Jumping against Noob is a dangerous thing to do.

In summary you have to relearn everything almost every month. All the muscle memory you develop to do things is pretty pointless.
 
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