Hate Speech: QS4G Is Basically Satan

I have a confession to make. I’ve been breaking one of my own rules by refusing to share the existence of Quick Step~4G (hereafter known as QS4G or step guard) or any related tech, despite having known about it for a while. This wasn’t some pathetic attempt to maintain a marginal unfair advantage over everyone else, though. My previous silence is in fact due to the incredibly deleterious effect this sort of glitch is bound to have on high level play.

It’s no secret that I want SCV to get big and have a long competitive lifespan, and I think most everyone taking the time to read and participate here at 8wayrun share those desires, but, in addition to all of that, I want SCV to be good. Step guard in all its prior incarnations has always undermined SOULCALIBUR’s competitive depth, and that was within more conventional, passivity-friendly game systems.

SCV, with its focus on active decision-making and de-emphasis of low/mid mixups, is particularly vulnerable to serious damage if such a bug becomes an active and necessary component of high level matches. It wasn’t going to remain unknown forever, unfortunately, and now that its existence is becoming increasingly common knowledge throughout our community, we need to look at it objectively, consider its potential impact, and calmly but firmly begin rattling our sabers a little bit. We, as the community, are the first and arguably most important line of defense when it comes to ensuring that we have a clean, balanced, respectable game.

The Story Thus Far

SC veterans will no doubt have some degree of familiarity with step guard, but let’s give it a brief review for the sake of any newcomers. My own first encounter with it was its most egregious incarnation, that of SCII’s step~G. Essentially, all a player had to do was press and hold G immediately after initiating a sidestep. His character would then proceed to step normally, avoiding vertical attacks, while at the same time allowing for the immediate and automatic cancel of sidestep into a blocking state should his opponent elect to use a horizontal attack. The net result of this was that it was damn hard to hit people; defense wasn’t a particularly active or risky task because there was no real effective means to discourage lateral movement.

Naptime.jpg
Above: An audience getting hype for SC2 action!
SCIII and SCIV each had their own versions of step guard, and while neither was as infuriatingly mindless as that which plagued SCII, it certainly can’t be argued that it made those respective games better. SCIII and IV step guard bugs were input in precisely the same manner as that of SCII, but in both cases the initial sidestep ended up being somewhat abbreviated and the guarding didn’t actually kick in immediately, thus allowing for a small number of very fast horizontals to achieve a limited utility. Step guard therefore remained a crucial element of high level play, but it was less unassailable than before. Golly gee, it was like Christmas every day of the year.

All of this brings us to SCV, a game without any form of step guard previously seen in the series. In fact, for a bit, it seemed as though we were blessedly free of it, largely due to the way lateral movement works in the game. Any sidestep or quickstep can be canceled into attacks at any point, but there is a delay before guard can kick in, theoretically making a player vulnerable to horizontal attacks when attempting to sidestep verticals, which is great (as an aside, this property of canceling movement into moves is why, when sidestepping a vertical, it’s important to make sure the move has entirely whiffed before attempting to punish it, lest you cancel your step too early and move back into the path of your enemy’s attack). Unfortunately, however, a handful of game glitches undermine this system.

It’s possible to input 4G during a quickstep near the moment of impact for a horizontal attack, thereby canceling a quickstep into the warm, comforting embrace of blocking everything. Beyond QS4G, there exist a handful of other methods to employ step guard in SCV, perhaps the easiest of which being recently shared and explained by Belial in a post here on 8wayrun. That method, sidestep~A_B_Kg, is slightly easier to do and less evasive, but it still reliably kills certain mixups, as his video demonstrates.

For those of you too lazy to click the link above and open a whole new thread.

It sounds minor, or even almost good, doesn’t it? For one, it isn’t easy to pull off; QS4G requires nimble hands and incorporates a timing element, so it’s initially difficult to execute on a consistent basis. What’s more, damage in SCV is quite high, and there’s a guard meter, so having a technical defensive option like this is nice, particularly since over-reliance on it will just get you broken, right?

Wrong.

Step Guard is Dumb, and You’re Dumb For Liking It

Bugs, glitches, advanced tech, and other little “happy accidents” will necessarily fall into one of three categories:
  1. Those which enhance gameplay, such as the very first accidental combo in Street Fighter II.
  2. Those which are tolerable or otherwise benign, such as the Algol graphical chair glitch.
  3. Those which have a diminishing effect on a game through either drastically limiting play options or just breaking a game outright, such as QS4G.
Here’s the deal: fighting games are and always will be games of emergent complexity, and oftentimes unplanned for elements end up providing us with most of the fun and strategy, but step guard has never fallen into that category, nor does this new-fangled QS4G. What it does, essentially, is make virtually every horizontal move in the game near-useless. Previous SOULCALIBUR games could push through this and retain varying degrees of complexity for systemic reasons, as it was still possible to open up an opponent through strong use of low/mid mixups and the like. SCV, however, leans heavily on vulnerable step from a design perspective. For many characters, their most crucial, devastating tactics come from intelligent application of horizontal/vertical mixups rather than low/mid, and having a universal means of negating that is profoundly limiting. In fact, it’s probably not hyperbole to suggest that, fully incorporated into everyone’s game, QS4G will make high level play into extremely boring displays of reckless grabbing and repeated attempts to break guard, since those are the only semi-reliable means most characters possess to break down an invincible step.

Balance decisions within SCV absolutely hinge on the notion that there is no 100% safe way to move around the field of play. As we know, successfully sidestepping an opponent’s vertical attack usually yields massive rewards. This is why hitting a moving opponent grants CH properties, and it’s the entire rationale behind the existence of moves like Cervantes’ 3A+B, which is unsafe on block and on normal hit, but grants a significant chunk of damage to players who can sniff out a sidestep and reap its sweet counterhit rewards.

Fate-god-hates-you-turtle.jpg
Trust me, it only feels like this. WB had some pretty sweet turtling, to be honest.

That being the case, any argument that QS4G somehow enhances the game or makes it more technical is at best vacuous and at worst cravenly self-serving. I’m sure it’s tempting to come at this from the perspective of “I hate being CH all the time and I want to move safely, so I like this bug because it benefits me,” but that just reeks of victimhood. Rather than projecting yourself into the role of the player being out-thought, outplayed, and altogether beaten down, think about what something like this potentially does to your offensive options. Do you want your opponents consistently glitching their way to safety when you’ve made a correct read? I should hope not. More importantly, irrespective of whether this glitch is good for you as an individual, it’s bad for the overall health of our game, which is something we must jealously protect. As designed, SCV encourages a thoughtful, active, fun playstyle, and the advent of large scale step guarding materially threatens that.

What Is To Be Done?

So we’ve established that this glitch, despite being somewhat tricky to perform and despite any personal relief it might provide us against skilled opponents, is a Very Bad Thing, but where does that leave us? As I said, we’re the most important first line of defense against crap that threatens to make our game insipid, so the onus is on us to be proactive. The Internet, social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, and a general sense of engagement on Namco’s part combine with a professed commitment to patching to create an environment wherein our voices should in fact carry some weight. As such, we’d damn well better speak out.

To be clear, I’m not recommending histrionics or hyperbole here, but it is important that we use our available tools to make it known that we care about having a game that functions as intended. More than any discrete question of balance, issues like QS4G have system-wide negative effects, and we need to make sure that fixing bugs like this, fuzzy guard, and anything else that pops up remain always at the top of the priority list. So please, make some noise about this. Tweet @Daishi_Calibur, post on the Facebook group, post here. Be respectful, of course, and pretend to be reasonable, sane individuals for the duration of this, but nevertheless be vocal and firm. We should all want SCV to be successful and have a long, exciting competitive lifespan. Getting this stupid bug out of our game dramatically increases the odds of that happening.

Homework:

Get on it. Make some noise. Be vocal about this bug, or be regretful when it kills any vestiges of excitement in high level matches. Your choice, I suppose.

@Original_Hater
 
Kneejerk remarks
You really want to be that guy? Namco has been more active in supporting the scene now then ever before. Why are you gonna write them off like that? Sure SC4 could have used a patch, but did we have an active community liaison from Namco? Did the development team say they were planning to patch game breaking glitches in any other iteration of the game?

No, they have never before made such comments. Hold that knee jerk bullshit and shut your fucking mouth... Oh and expect me to heckle the shit out of guys like you when you get assed out of tournaments because your crutch gets patched out of the game and you can't compete without it.
 
Even though we all realize step-g was not meant to be in the game, I don't see a logical way of this being patched. In order to take step A/B/Kg out, that would either mean that you cannot attack at all until after the full step is complete, or just take out guard canceling A/B/K completely... which is a long standing Soul Calibur technique. They've already taken out cancels of moves for a lot of characters, if they take out basic A/B/K cancels... thats just not Soul Calibur.
 
Nice as always my friend, lets give it time, the game has some bugs im sure they will fix, for the first time im trusting namco, good shit also belial, hope fot my black guy too.
jaja omega i beat you online once lololol i beat your nightmare lol
 
Even though we all realize step-g was not meant to be in the game, I don't see a logical way of this being patched. In order to take step A/B/Kg out, that would either mean that you cannot attack at all until after the full step is complete, or just take out guard canceling A/B/K completely... which is a long standing Soul Calibur technique. They've already taken out cancels of moves for a lot of characters, if they take out basic A/B/K cancels... thats just not Soul Calibur.

just patch it so that you can't guard cancel 3 sec after stepping.... ie, you can still cancel step by attacking, just not cancel again into guard within 3 sec after stepping.

btw, i see 8wr has fixed the problem with ie can't post replies. Thanks!! but ie still has problem with quoting replies. hence the reason for my post appearing for nearly 10min with only quoted text but no typed text from me.... and it was annoying the hell out of me for not able to edit either...
-_-|||
 
I'm finally going to make a Twitter account just to get on the relevant peoples' ass about this. I love this game, so much fun to watch and play. I do not want to see it become a mind numbing attack, step G affair. Damn, I loved SCIV but that game was a chore to watch. This is fast, fluid, and fun. Let's keep it that way.
 
Good shit man, dont know who you are but if you beat me once then you are making progress, i must be a really good player to you, cause you are celebrating for 1 win, keep it up man.
lol im celebrating cuz you beat me first and then i got my revenge the next time we met lol ahh you were so anoying with that nightmare but once i got inside and rushed you down i put the smack down :) it was a good win, to bad i forgot to save the replay jaja
 
brutal "i'm about to get trolled by everyone" honesty time:

i think i'm probably the only one who feels like sc5 puts WAY too much value/reward behind relatively low risk attack guesses, but before i go into this rant, it must be made clear that i do...

if damage in the game sees a moderate to large nerf in most of the cast, i will agree that this step g, in all of its forms, has to go. as of now i shall proudly remain "that guy" who likes the idea of boosting the s*** out of defensive options. this may not be the best way to do so, but it is something.

this isn't a bitch and moan thread, and i hope not to derail it too badly, but jesus christ, where in the hell are the dissenting opinions here?

you know, thomas jefferson once said that "disse..." oh fuck it. here, to get your attention, is a semi-hot, undie-clad kid in an airport, handcuffed for doing us all a favor by speaking up against those invasive body scanning machines in his own way:

erim1z.jpg

actually i just found that picture by googling "dissent" and wanted to squeeze it in somehow. still, though, someone has to strip down to their skivvies here and put the message on blast that that something is fundamentally wrong. i guess it has to be me.

i'm not gonna lie; i don't like this game. it is beautiful. it is fluid. the online netcode and user interface is great. the training mode is great. the namco support for the community (finally) is fucking great. it is exquisitely done in almost every regard. it will do well for tournaments and well for spectators and is gonna be very good for the community as a whole. i can already see that. i'm not saying it is bad. on the contrary, it is great. still, i don't like it. it is my least favorite game in the series and here is why;

the damage is so big almost across the board (one CH in a late round with almost anyone can easily net 100+) that i often feel like i am playing tekken more so than soul calibur. i do not approve of this. the meter seems to serve as nothing more than a comeback mechanic. i do not approve of this. the punishment for guessing incorrectly is far and away more severe than it has ever been in a SC game. i do not approve of this.

my complaints are only relevant to this discussion because perhaps a solid grasp on step g possibilities would diminish these feelings and allow me to enjoy sc5 as i have enjoyed the previous games. perhaps we should think for a while before we shoot ourselves in the foot here. perhaps this exploit is the only thing that will balance the game out in the long run.

i'm not saying that stepg in SC5 shouldn't be fixed. it should. what i am saying is that there are far more glaring, fundamental issues that break the game(for me personally) and stepg is a potential solution that we have yet to thoroughly explore. if they are addressed, well then stepg will have no purpose. as of now, well...i admittedly love it.

i say; nerf the damage and tweak the meter and THEN get rid of this riffraff...otherwise, lets play it out.
 
lol im celebrating cuz you beat me first and then i got my revenge the next time we met lol ahh you were so anoying with that nightmare but once i got inside and rushed you down i put the smack down :) it was a good win, to bad i forgot to save the replay jaja
Yea man we understand your excitment, like i said good shit beating me 1 fight, but look, ill be at Final round, why dont you go and beat me there, or you can invite me later, on psn and record all the matches that you want and put them Here on 8wayrun, so you can be famous.
 
Whether you like step G or not, that's your opinion. I like how people pass their opinions as a fact in this thread. "It's bad." No it's not it's awesome.

No, step G fix can take a back seat. If it's an easy fix no problem, if not, fuck it. It's a defensive mechanic that is universally excessable to everyone. It won't change the results of high level play, it might piss you off, but the best players will still own it.

The game has real fucking issues. This is a none issue compared to the balance problems. Attacks whiffing directing into characters, retarded damage off speedy safe characters, button checks, a missing roster, DJ not on the character select screen, buffering issues and etc.

Now that shit actually effects high level play, whiffing stuff at vital moments in a match is infuriating.

If you're to spam Daishi about anything that would be it.
 
Yea man we understand your excitment, like i said good shit beating me 1 fight, but look, ill be at Final round, why dont you go and beat me there, or you can invite me later, on psn and record all the matches that you want and put them Here on 8wayrun, so you can be famous.
jajaja why do you have to take things so serious? tranquilízate tipo, and no thanks i dont go to those tournaments i got other things to do, why would i want to become famous for playing a video game? this is what bothers me its not about having fun anymore, its about whos the best at playing a video game that was invented to have fun
 
brutal "i'm about to get trolled by everyone" honesty time:


it out.
I say the gameplay is great as it is, matches should end quick, i dont like people beating me by time or playing way to defensively, i want someone to beat me not just wait for me to make a mistake or miss, then punish, in SC4 i hated playing against people that just poked and step guarded me, slowass paced gameplay, boring as hell, i want to rush people down and want people to rush me down ofensive play is great and exiting, also good for spectators
 
One of the things that appeals to me with SC5 is the fact that it is generally speaking, a faster paced game than SF4. Anything that turns Soul Calibur into essentially a 3D version of Guile from his Super Street Fighter 4 iteration is bad in my books.

I'll get onto twitter and and tweet this.
 
So fixing QS4G is relatively easy... But what about QS~A_B_Kg? I guess make it to where you can't cancel into guard until 20 frames have passed after your last QS? But what about stance cancels? As seen with Alpha Patroklos, it doesn't guard, it just dodges entirely.

Besides just yelling at Namco "FIX THIS!", we should help them come with solutions too.
 
Step g, and all of its sequential iterations are stupid. It inspires nothing but braindead gameplay and will kill the game competitively because its so boring, just like with SC4. Why would anyone want this?

SC5 sans step g is one of the best games I've ever played in my life. Watching people make decisions they have to commit to, and watching the ensuing consequences unfold is a real joy to watch, and perfectly describes how a 3d game in essense should be.

Step g is just an annoying crutch and says absolutely nothing about a players skill. 'oh no, my opponent is attacking, what should I do? Should I backstep, duck, TJ, attack.....I know, i'll just DO NOTHING! Step g is awesome!'. That's not solid defense in the least, that's just braindead play.
 
I feel like I was playing a different SCIV than everybody else. AA, 1A, 3A etc. killed step just fine for me.
 
NDK: In SC5 I actually have enough time to use a KND horizontal without seeing my opponent step and block it. Being limited to only AA in previous games was lame. If I guess correctly I want the opponent to feel the fury.

The fact that anyone disagrees with this means they're wrong.
 

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