Natsu's Hardest Moves discussion

SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe

SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe

Red Lotus
(6A+B) ~ PO ~ A:6 is an important combo link
PO's startup frames and active frames are slightly different. You cannot do A:6 during startup but you can do it during active frames. The fastest you have to wait is... this will sound weird but it works for a musical type of person... one foot dab. So you sit or stand with your controller, po, dab foot, input A:6. Works every time for me.

PO.[4],66B+G is an important PO mixup.
That is how you input it too, and you wait for the active frames of PO, holding [4] until it enters active frames before you input the throw itself.
 
The timing is earlier than A:6. It seems fairly easy to me; I believe it's a 2f window. Really it just takes practice.
 
The way i train it is i do it just from PO:
214 A:6
That shows you actually have to do A and then 6 really fast.

Then, when doing it after any PO transition like 6A+B, 4A and so on,
I practice to wait until she has fully entered PO (You have enough time to do that and continue your combos),
then doing A:6 like above.

This way buffering doesn't mess up my input resulting in PO A6 or just A, no matter how i go into PO.

It's a bit like Taki's 22_88B, A:6 in SCIV:
Even when you did A:6 correctly, if you do it too early and it gets buffered into the recovery of 22_88B, you get A6.
And if you learn it with buffering you mess it up outside of this combo.

For me the hardest input is PO 466 B+G it seems to me that you have to go from 4 to 6 so fast it's ridiculous.
But it would be useful after 6A+B as punishment, especially when PO A wouldn't work because of range or character.

Also 41236B seems to be harder, like faster and really precise. I like to fake it, then do something else but at the moment i always get 6B, 66B, normal B or whatever lol.

And PORC (POssession Rush Cancel, 214 664) you have to do it faster now, still getting used to that.
 
Hold 4, once you see yourself in PO stance, do 66B+G. It works, and it's not difficult.

And PORC (PO 664) isn't a new notation, that's how we had to do it in SCIV. I don't notice it being faster or whatever.. I do it just fine, but PORC isn't even that useful in this game anyway since PO transitions aren't as strong as they used to be.

-ASZ
 
Alright Fleshmasher's explanation had me thinking and I figured PO ~ A:6 out. PO's startup frames and active frames are slightly different. You cannot do A:6 during startup but you can do it during active frames. The fastest you have to wait is... this will sound weird but it works for a musical type of person... one foot dab. So you sit or stand with your controller, po, dab foot, input A:6. Works every time for me.
 
I'd rather just reuse an execution post rather than make a new ones, so:

Presuming you're not doing the "screw airthrows, I can reliably do an a+b6 combo in place of them for 4 more damage" thing...

Is it just me, or is the window for a stalker airthrow after 2a+b much later than the window for a PO 8B+G throw? What I'm finding is that if I deliberately did 2a+b, I might as well do PO 8B+G. But if I accidentally went into the bomb when I was intending, say, poison darts, (after 4b, usually), unless I'm really fast on the uptake I'm better off taking the smaller combo damage from b+k b+g rather than try for PO 8B+G and likely end up whiffing a B+G on the ground.

I guess the window for a 6a+B followup is even later? That does provide another reason to try that, even factoring the whiff factor in, if you're judging that it's even too late for the stalker move.
 
mneme said:
snip
Click to expand...

We are looking at two different problems here. One is the air throw window, the other is accidental inputs.

Let's start with the other one.

2A+B should never happen when you try to g[2]A+B.
The following reasons can cause this execution malfunction:
1. You are mashing 2 instead of holding it down during A+B.
Solution: The correct input is your left thumb on [2] right after a G and then add A+B while releasing G. So pretty much switching your right thumb for your left or right index finger whichever trigger you have A+B on.
2. You do not have A+B on a Trigger and you are hard pressing yourself to get all those buttons in there.
Solution: Put A+B on a trigger ASAP!

And now the throw window.
2A+B PO ~ 8B+G
4A+B POD ~ 8B+G

Q: What's a common point?
A1: The bomb sends them right up in the air to the same height from which they will begin to fall down.
A2: Falling down takes them the same amount of time in both cases.

Q: What's different?
A: Distance you have to move.

With 4A+B POD ~ 8B+G you need to dash a bit of distance to begin with while 2A+B PO ~ 8B+G keeps you right under the target which means ... what now?

Here goes. The farther you hit them from, the longer the time it takes for you to get into position for the air throw. By default a 4A+B POD used from farthest will make you dash right into distance so by the time you get there they have started to fall down and your throw will catch them.
Test this.
Now, stand right unto the dummy and do another 4A+B6 and you'll see that if you immediately jump up after the dash, you'll miss the throw. You have to wait the exact same time from this distance as with PO ~A:6. Which is less than a second.

So Again: The closer you are to the target when the bomb goes off sending them high, the closer to one second you will have to wait with PO 8B+G. This wait time will always be slightly less than one second though.

Edit: Also 8B+G can be executed on PO startup frames unlike many other moves which can only be executed on active frames.
 
I play stick -- so the math is a bit different (and so I don't use bindings, except for A+B+K; instead I use one finger per and before button with layout 2). AFAICT, when 2A+B comes out instead of iWC A+B, it's because I mistimed the input on the 2G (either I inputted it too early, so it didn't buffer after 4B, or I didn't hold it long enough? My usual input is 2g (rock hand to A+B while holding 2; lifting the thumb a frame before slamming a+b with index + middle).

That said, while my experience is that with practice one makes fewer missed inputs, mistakes do happen.

Regarding airthrow timing--4A+B6 I've generally found to be trivial. input 8A+B on teleport arrival and it happens. The usual difficutly there is -not- inputting 8A+B on a blocked 4A+B, something that is far more difficult than it really should be. That's a place where I really need to run the dummy on random block/no block until I'm hit-confirming before the airthrow. I guess I could (and should just for the practice) learn 4A+B 214668b+g, but that is kinda tricky.

2A+B into an airthrow is trickier. Usually it's not a case of missing the airthrow (airthrow doesn't seems to miss as long as the opponent is in the air when you leave the ground), but mistiming it -- it seems like my window after a 2A+B is betwixt the hit and the point where the opponent lands -- not very long at all, given an obviously harder input (2-1-4-8g+B) than the trivial 8g+b input on either the RM-K or 4A+B6 launchers. (and I think also much harder than the CE input).

I'll grant that if they're still going up the airthrow will miss; I just haven't run into that particular fumble yet that I've noticed.
 
mneme said:
I play stick -- so the math is a bit different (and so I don't use bindings, except for A+B+K; instead I use one finger per and before button with layout 2). AFAICT, when 2A+B comes out instead of iWC A+B, it's because I mistimed the input on the 2G (either I inputted it too early, so it didn't buffer after 4B, or I didn't hold it long enough? My usual input is 2g (rock hand to A+B while holding 2; lifting the thumb a frame before slamming a+b with index + middle).
Click to expand...
I had the same issue when i started out with Natsu (still do it randomly somtimes). From what i have noticed, 2A+B tends to come out instead of FC A+B when you input it too quickly, hence the game only registering the 2A+B. Try to go into practice and try to delaying the 2g~2A+B and try to see how big the buffer window is from the moves you are trying to do it from.
 
MrAdam0 said:
I had the same issue when i started out with Natsu (still do it randomly somtimes). From what i have noticed, 2A+B tends to come out instead of FC A+B when you input it too quickly, hence the game only registering the 2A+B. Try to go into practice and try to delaying the 2g~2A+B and try to see how big the buffer window is from the moves you are trying to do it from.
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I can understand how the stick would be different to maintain a g[2] with steadily, it takes a pretty precise hand to play with one so I always respected players who could pull that off. My hands are made of lead unfortunately, I'm too used to typing so controllers (and sticks) feel alien
 
SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe said:
I can understand how the stick would be different to maintain a g[2] with steadily, it takes a pretty precise hand to play with one so I always respected players who could pull that off. My hands are made of lead unfortunately, I'm too used to typing so controllers (and sticks) feel alien
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I play on pad, it's just the fact that it can be a bit wierd at first to get used to the buffer window when trying to do iFC A+B
 
MrAdam0 said:
I play on pad, it's just the fact that it can be a bit wierd at first to get used to the buffer window when trying to do iFC A+B
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. It's a switch-out of fingers while maintaining [2], starting with holding G then pressing 2 at the same time then releasing G the same time as pressing A+B and it takes a bit of practice to do it consistently. I find myself not even using that move in actual battle yet...
 
I play on a hitbox, and it does feel a lot like typing. I only miss iFC A+B about as often as I misspell teh. Oops, the.
 
1,3,7, and 9 are easy, they're just a double button press. 2+6=3, 8+4=7, etc.

The only hard thing is half circles. And forget about doing a full 360. Thankfully, SC doesn't require that kind of stuff, mostly. At least the way I play it.
 
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