SCV Tier List

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Belial said:
Im curious how people put their tier list together.
Do they play all characters to make a judgement? no but does it matters? isn t better actually to reason in terms of movesets?


So far there is a number of universal complaints in every forum, it seems.
Character A:
- Stuffed by backdash check (aka negates mixups and its easy to do)
- No mid-hitting step killer (or "too slow, too unsafe etc") check actually there is one that tracks one side but do so few damage is even hard to notice and advantage is not consistent ._.
but actually most characters have antistep mid tools
- Has no safe launcher....irrelevant because its so slow and steppable that isn t even a launcher....the other launcher combos only with CE (150% ce bar for 100 dmg) or 10dmg....
- Needs meter to work properly/deal damage not true...meters add 15 dmg so its a waste....

Its the same for almost every character. actually no

How many people, like me, have run through every character move list, RO, wakeup, mixup options?
doing from day 1 on paper don t need to use the character....not finished yet but its enough to judge


Common situation - person playing top tier complain he's weak and need skill to play. Happens all the time.
the day i'll use a top tier it will be really full of raphael users :)


So if you put 5 ppl together and ask their opinion, they all will say "my char is weak/hard/takes lots of skill".
for mine skill is not enough


There are no 2 damage moves in SCV. Example irrelevant.
obviously its a typo for 20
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a simple question?
do you think scV is balanced as it is?
 
My tier list:

People who are broke as fuck - All characters not mentioned below.
People who are perfectly balanced - Siegfried, Aeon, Z.W.E.I.
People who need to be buffed - Tira and Pyrrha Omega.
 
>Natsu

>Everybody else.

Bad Natsus can spam against people that don't know better and still win. I actually don't care what any of you say, Natsu is clearly in a different league to the rest of the cast. Lol at the guy that thinks Mitsurugi is higher than Natsu. No dis to Rugi, I main him myself, but to say he's even close to her is just plain old silly.

A good X can beat a bad Y, and then of course you have a strong element of mind games and metagaming in Soul, so any tier list is very subjective, and I concede that. But all things being equal, Natsu turns people into punching bags, and makes the rest of the cast look like a joke. 50% combos without a single bit of meter? You're lucky if you get two wrong guesses against a decent Natsu. She's a problem.

Also,
>Ezio. He's awful, period.
 
TinMan said:
Bad Natsus can spam against people that don't know better and still win.
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Well even if you call them bad they are still obviously better than the person they are spamming... I am pretty sure that is more the other persons fault for not knowing better.
 
TinMan said:
>Natsu

>Everybody else.

Bad Natsus can spam against people that don't know better and still win. I actually don't care what any of you say, Natsu is clearly in a different league to the rest of the cast. Lol at the guy that thinks Mitsurugi is higher than Natsu. No dis to Rugi, I main him myself, but to say he's even close to her is just plain old silly.

A good X can beat a bad Y, and then of course you have a strong element of mind games and metagaming in Soul, so any tier list is very subjective, and I concede that. But all things being equal, Natsu turns people into punching bags, and makes the rest of the cast look like a joke. 50% combos without a single bit of meter? You're lucky if you get two wrong guesses against a decent Natsu. She's a problem.

Also,
>Ezio. He's awful, period.
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Go play against people with Taki in SCIV. You'll win if people don't know their shit just like Natsu in V.
 
TinMan said:
>Natsu

>Everybody else.

Bad Natsus can spam against people that don't know better and still win. I actually don't care what any of you say, Natsu is clearly in a different league to the rest of the cast. Lol at the guy that thinks Mitsurugi is higher than Natsu. No dis to Rugi, I main him myself, but to say he's even close to her is just plain old silly.

A good X can beat a bad Y, and then of course you have a strong element of mind games and metagaming in Soul, so any tier list is very subjective, and I concede that. But all things being equal, Natsu turns people into punching bags, and makes the rest of the cast look like a joke. 50% combos without a single bit of meter? You're lucky if you get two wrong guesses against a decent Natsu. She's a problem.

Also,
>Ezio. He's awful, period.
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natsu spamming people who dont know anything has nothing to do with her tier placement. put her against someone who knows the matchup and it becomes a bit more clear where she ends up.

from my viewpoint, getting to play someone who already knows how to shut down the gimmicks and will 236B my ass for every -14 or worse move. every transition to PO except for 4A+B6 is a gamble that is not in natsus favor. bombs dont mean shit because he will jump/block them 99% of the time, and will not tech roll, unless its backwards to avoid the bomb. lots of backstep and wont mash buttons at disadvantage so all of those 50% combos arent happening on normal hit. her guard gauge damage is laughable, her B throws are great, A is weak without meter, her lows are pretty garbage outside of tick lows like 2K and 1K, both - on hit.

what about her meter use? 66B BE should be ducked every time eventually, only use it for RO potential in combos
PO BE is good, safe on block, but just a gimmick that sometimes loses to moves auto correcting or just plain beating it out. A+G BE is essential for evening out her throw damage and will RO from a LONG ways away. time will tell if people can actually react to the glow and break A, i think it will happen soon. Her CE is only good in combos, mostly off of bombs to get full damage, as mentioned before, i dont get to hit bombs on good players very often. at the end of the combo you can pop off her CE after wall kick for her most damaging ender, but it only adds 20 damage, 30 if you are lucky.

in tiers execution doesnt matter but i'm just gonna state that while her JFs are easy in general and i have a very high success rate with them there have already been times where ive dropped combos from missing the PO A:6 and it cost me the round. the 50% is not free like some of you think it is. combine that with dropping CH 22A A:6 and tech trap FC A+B A:6 and the execution certainly becomes a factor in real play. (have no idea what i just said? you most likely havent played a good natsu if you havent seen the aformentioned)

i put her at bottom of A tier or top of B tier. let the hate commence.
 
kAb said:
i put her at bottom of A tier or top of B tier. let the hate commence.
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This is not hate. But. I have just created another thread on spamming characters, and... Even though I know there are ways to deal with spamming players, I find it is way harder to deal with e.g. Natsu. It's not that I don't agree she might have her weaknesses (I assume she has, I have no clue as to how to use them), but there's a hell of a difference between having to read through your fine report above or actually being able to handle the opposition without reading a report first :-)

In reality I just find that I loose every time I meet a Natsu player, no matter her rank. Then of course, I do loose a lot, so not much difference there. But I think it's understandable if people judge tier a lot from how easy a character is to win with when you have only studied it for a day or two.
 
darkfender said:
a simple question?
do you think scV is balanced as it is?
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The game is really well balanced, no one should get any kinda buff or any kinda nerf, cause they'll just screw it up.

Any character can beat any other character, no problem, but I still like my tier list. So, can anyone explain to me why Cervantes is not the best character in the game?

edit: I guess I'll have to explain how to use Cervantes first...
3A is unsafe in this game but it will stuff all step, better than it did before cause of the changed game mechanics
1AB is an unseeable low mixup that kills the shit out of step and gets good damage on counter hit.
Cervy gets incredible damage off a simple 3B, and can do it without any meter.
Cervy 4B BE is... extremely good
Cervy's attacks from crouching are good, and damaging
Cervy throws are really damaging
Cervy range is excellent, and his overall step kill is excellent, and can be done fairly safely on block.
214B punishes a bunch of shit for a lot of damage and will interrupt well when done at disadvantage.
aB punishes just about everything in the game
44B is still good.
wall combos...

he has no weakness or bad matchups... Pyrrha would be his worst matchup, but still manageable.
that said, he doesn't destroy any of the cast, cause the game is balanced.
 
kAb said:
natsu spamming people who dont know anything has nothing to do with her tier placement. put her against someone who knows the matchup and it becomes a bit more clear where she ends up.

from my viewpoint, getting to play someone who already knows how to shut down the gimmicks and will 236B my ass for every -14 or worse move. every transition to PO except for 4A+B6 is a gamble that is not in natsus favor. bombs dont mean shit because he will jump/block them 99% of the time, and will not tech roll, unless its backwards to avoid the bomb. lots of backstep and wont mash buttons at disadvantage so all of those 50% combos arent happening on normal hit. her guard gauge damage is laughable, her B throws are great, A is weak without meter, her lows are pretty garbage outside of tick lows like 2K and 1K, both - on hit.

what about her meter use? 66B BE should be ducked every time eventually, only use it for RO potential in combos
PO BE is good, safe on block, but just a gimmick that sometimes loses to moves auto correcting or just plain beating it out. A+G BE is essential for evening out her throw damage and will RO from a LONG ways away. time will tell if people can actually react to the glow and break A, i think it will happen soon. Her CE is only good in combos, mostly off of bombs to get full damage, as mentioned before, i dont get to hit bombs on good players very often. at the end of the combo you can pop off her CE after wall kick for her most damaging ender, but it only adds 20 damage, 30 if you are lucky.

in tiers execution doesnt matter but i'm just gonna state that while her JFs are easy in general and i have a very high success rate with them there have already been times where ive dropped combos from missing the PO A:6 and it cost me the round. the 50% is not free like some of you think it is. combine that with dropping CH 22A A:6 and tech trap FC A+B A:6 and the execution certainly becomes a factor in real play. (have no idea what i just said? you most likely havent played a good natsu if you havent seen the aformentioned)

i put her at bottom of A tier or top of B tier. let the hate commence.
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Ok I'm with Belial after reading this haha
But that's going to be like ... 15 people, at best ? :/
 
@Belial - Nothing stopping you from making your own boards or discussing these things in the PMs with the people you deem worthy of your attention, assuming that the opinion on the ground level disagrees with your refined senses.

I'm not even gonna pretend to be super-pro, I'm just reporting what I've seen, and what I've seen is that YES, Natsu has weaknesses, and I did also say that against somebody who knows how to fight against her there are things just about everybody can do. But every character in the game kicks off at a disadvantage, and the way I see that has been proven here today, by the responses being basically - Master her block patterns and respond at the precise window of opportunity with the optimal response, otherwise you're gonna get beaten to shit.

No other character I can think of in this game DEMANDS such a focused and pretty high level response, apart from Natsu.

@Kab - Condescend less.

@Sword Lord - Agreed, I think Cervy is one of the best characters in the game, once fully mastered. But in my book, if you can hit GDRC that consistently you deserve a strong character for your trouble.

Also, I'm not hearing people discuss the online scene, and how there are a LOT of Natsus out there, putting out the same flowchart bullcrap and not even needing to be responsive, they can just focus on aggression 100% of the time, and win consistently. Why? Because Natsu is easy to use and is this games character of choice for the tier whore.
 
Natsu is not easy to use, I dropped her and Maxi immediately after messing with them in practice mode the day the game came out. They have big weaknesses I didn't feel like trying to compensate for. And I'm someone who used Taki and Maxi heavily in sc2 and sc3.
 
Vanvid said:
In reality I just find that I loose every time I meet a Natsu player, no matter her rank. Then of course, I do loose a lot, so not much difference there. But I think it's understandable if people judge tier a lot from how easy a character is to win with when you have only studied it for a day or two.
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I don't know the game very well, but it's a bit odd, every time I play a Maxi if their win percentage isn't above a ninety I can usually expect to beat them easily, while for other characters I can only expect to easily beat them if their percentage is below a sixty.

TinMan said:
Bad Natsus can spam against people that don't know better and still win. I actually don't care what any of you say, Natsu is clearly in a different league to the rest of the cast. Lol at the guy that thinks Mitsurugi is higher than Natsu. No dis to Rugi, I main him myself, but to say he's even close to her is just plain old silly.
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I agree Natsu is really good, but your first sentence really applies to about everyone. Against people who don't know how to react properly I spam Leixia's easy lows that should be easily blocked. When the game first came out, I always fell for Aeon's flying body slam.

If everyone hadn't been complaining about Sieg I wouldn't've known there was anything bad about him. I probably just don't know the matchup, but he beats me just as much as any other character.
 
Saitoh said:
Ok I'm with Belial after reading this haha
But that's going to be like ... 15 people, at best ? :/
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obvious knock at me, thanks. i dont see anything wrong with what i just posted above. at least it was well thought out and from someone who actually plays the character and knows the soul calibur series. most people here are crying or defending with no evidence to support there claims.

please break down what is so wrong with my statement if its so blatantly laughable from your expert opinion.

i did see some footage of some euros literally getting blown up by kerrigans bombs so maybe that has something to do with it?

also not a tier whore trying to blindly defend their character, natsu was who i decided on in the beginning of SCV and i'm sticking with her. talim/mitsu main in 2 and lizardman main in 3 and 4.
 
Vaelestrasz said:
and how can you determine which people "actually have a clue?"
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They skipped this thread. ;)

Let me give you an example of why.

*ahem*

So according to my tier list, Yoshimitsu is completely low tier. Most of his moves don't have good start-up and recovery. Many of his moves are completely punishable. The unblockables he does have are difficult to hit people with. MED A+B aGI with revenge is hugely damaging and instantly destroys Natsu's bombs. MED A+B is his only strength and the revenge on aGI is unstoppable. Yoshimitu's iMCF has great reward and starts up in i10.

Viola is able to trap people into ring-out, guaranteed throw and guaranteed unblockable combos. The majority of her punishes lead into her most damaging combos that have a very high chance to double wall splat and ring-out. She doesn't have to fear Yoshimitsu's best move, his MED A+B aGI with revenge, because her 3B is much faster than MED A+B from standing. Because of her size, she is able to walk right through the aGI's revenge without taking damage. Viola's moves are much faster than Yoshimitsu's and almost always put him at disadvantage and unable to perform iMCF.

Even players that have played both Viola and Yoshimitsu might not recognize how stupid it is immediately - especially because of the use of nearly obscure situations. It's pretty convincing. Although the above may sound like it's well thought and well written, it is absolute nonsense. Complete and utter garbage.

You have two choices, adventurer:
A) Choose the internet route of "PROVE ME WRONG" and attempt to write 3 novels to disprove all of the points above that are barely even relevant to the game play. Most people choose this option and counter the irrelevant points with even more irrelevant points.
B) Wait for people like Belial and others to build the technology that prepares the tournament players who then post their confidence ratings.
 
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