Raphael : Patch Changes and Discussion

if you 22B your best bet is to do 66A+B. That move builds meter the fastest (better than 11BB, A+BA and 1B). However, if you 88B (and step about 45 degrees) there is a high probabilty it'll whiff and that is sole time you shuold 1B.

Moves like 44B on hit give you 1/4 of a BE.
 
Well, this isn't much, but on CH Prep K, 6, A+B A (56 dmg) will connect but it won't catch back, left, or right tech.
 
Ouch. These techs hurt more than anything. His new stuns suck unless you can CE (which isn't viable in long combos involving these stuns).

I wonder how nerfed the other characters were. Shocked to hear Pyrrha was very little nerfed.
 
Most reliabe meterless damage for 22_88B from a distance seems to be 11BB (43/44) cause it tracks no matter how the guy crumples. It's similar to 66A+B and 1B, except these may not track, depending on how the guy crumples (cause 1 more damage, though).

If you're very near, specially if it's 22B, the guy will tend to crumple to Raph's right, and A+BA will work for 63.

Punishing after stepping became very complex:

0- When meterless, you gotta consider range and direction to follow 22_88B properly.Or try to fit a 4B

1- When having 1 meter, 33K(BE)2B

2- When having 2 meters, 22_88B CE

3- When having 3 meters, 33K(BE) CE

Raph has certainly become more CE friendly.
 
Solid_Altair said:
Most reliabe meterless damage for 22_88B from a distance seems to be 11BB (43/44) cause it tracks no matter how the guy crumples. It's similar to 66A+B and 1B, except these may not track, depending on how the guy crumples (cause 1 more damage, though).

If you're very near, specially if it's 22B, the guy will tend to crumple to Raph's right, and A+BA will work for 63.

Punishing after stepping became very complex:

0- When meterless, you gotta consider range and direction to follow 22_88B properly.Or try to fit a 4B

1- When having 1 meter, 33K(BE)2B

2- When having 2 meters, 22_88B CE

3- When having 3 meters, 33K(BE) CE

Raph has certainly become more CE friendly.
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0. B+G was always 45. you can add a 8K to push the damage to 53, which is pretty good.

I've had 11BB whiff after hitting 22BB, raph just overshoots them whiffing (more closeness then angle problem).

Most players will now have a deep decisions to choose for the incredible 6BB BE CH meter usage (which basically adds 30 damage plus knockdown) , or prepK BE off a prep4 aGI or some hail mary step kill (which leads to enormous rewards from 70 to 125 if a wall is included), or 33KBE which seems to be his new go-to whiff punish off a side step which leads to about 75 if you dont get a clean hit.

Raph with meter is (and was prepatch) pretty solid though, its the meter-less part of him which takes a hit. Holding 1 full bar just so you threaten people with a i12 mid punish for 75 does help prevent certain moves from being used against you, but you've already got 6BB BE for double duty at half the meter cost.

33KBE will have to be seriously tried out more.
 
Thx.

I'm currently practicing to get used to punish after stepping, including the 22_88B part. It's complicated as hell.

And I found a new use to SE A. If you're close on block, do 22B. It usually allows the A+BA follow up.
 
22B upclose > 22B as a ranged combo starter. Was hoping Raphael had pokes at range that could lead to respectful damage to challenge asta/hildes without having to get in close.
 
sorry if i'm not seeing it, but where is his i12 mid punish? 33k is 16 right? and if your stepping all day to buffer in that move you'll get hit out of it too much for it to be viable imo.

alongside the anti- raph tools ppl have been learning (bullrush vs all prep, for example) pre-patch, there is no space for these complex ways of using the tools. they won't see the mixup and just punish accordingly or make you adapt to a style were these tools aren't possible to use at their best.
 
NGKrush said:
sorry if i'm not seeing it, but where is his i12 mid punish? 33k is 16 right? and if your stepping all day to buffer in that move you'll get hit out of it too much for it to be viable imo.

alongside the anti- raph tools ppl have been learning (bullrush vs all prep, for example) pre-patch, there is no space for these complex ways of using the tools. they won't see the mixup and just punish accordingly or make you adapt to a style were these tools aren't possible to use at their best.
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CE.
 
I don't want to give up on Raphael guys. Tell me there's something we've still got that can make him competitive.
 
May have been mentioned before, pretty useless, probably.

From starting position on 1P side, tap 8, then quickstep 22, hold it for a teensy bit, press B (so 22B lands at tip range). 3B connects, almost as if opponent falls into the strike. Tested vs. Raphael.

Seems like it's a hitbox thing about connecting at the tip and nothing more. Since I can't get 3B to land at any other angles or distances...

Combo videos, I guess...
 
Leonyx said:
I don't want to give up on Raphael guys. Tell me there's something we've still got that can make him competitive.
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I'm the same with you man. Raphael is the only character I know how to play at the moment since I don't have a system to play the game yet but I do not want to drop Raph as a main.
 
Leonyx said:
I don't want to give up on Raphael guys. Tell me there's something we've still got that can make him competitive.
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There isn't anything to say to this except, sorry. He was barely hanging in there with 22B and SE pre-patch, but now, he's got nothing. He's still fun, and you can still play as him casually, but if you are interested in winning tournaments, you'll need to pick a new character, it is that simple.

DrakeAldan said:
From starting position on 1P side, tap 8, then quickstep 22, hold it for a teensy bit, press B (so 22B lands at tip range). 3B connects, almost as if opponent falls into the strike. Tested vs. Raphael.
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I had this happen once as well in a game, I 22B'd and muscle memory kicked in and I 3B'd and it hit. I noticed that the other guy sort of fell strangely towards me so I'm not really sure what happened, but it seemed like a lucky off-axis kinda thing.
 
About giving up on Raphael:

Didn't the other characters got severely nerfed as well?

And though this patch may hurt at first, since it's a nerf, it will probably be regarded as good, balanced thing later. Raphael did become more complex. You can't just use his top 3 moves willy nilly, anymore. This will force Raph players into a more varied and stylish type of play. I'm just hoping the same will apply to other members of the cast.
 
How do we make 22K more likely to get a CH? I guess 4B is the new tool? Bait out whiffs with 3B and maybe 22B into 3A, then mix up 2A and 11B? We need to salvage this soon. Nightmare doesn't look right next to my initials, but he's staying there until patch 2.0.
-DC:sc5nm1:
 
@Solid_Altair: The reason we used his top 3 moves so much is because all the others were terrible. They've basically nerfed the good stuff and not done anything to make the bad stuff any better. Sure, he'll be more complex, but only because everything is now equally bad. I'll still use him, but I can't help but wonder why they decided he needed to be worse when there is no evidence from tournament to suggest he is overly good, nor are people going into forums and complaining about him the way they were about Leixia and Natsu. Heck, I main NM and he's won more tournaments than anyone and he got off way lighter than a lot of the cast.
 
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