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WuHT
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I'm not going to force people to main him. I hear pyrrha's still pretty good.
Raphael : Patch Changes and Discussion
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Gamegenie222
[10] Knight
Meh I'm still gonna main despite these nerfs even though I suck lol but that's me sucking.
Azazel
[12] Conqueror
Pyrrah is the easy way. Raph is for real pros that want their skills to be tested ;)
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WuHT
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I think its entirely reasonable people consider another (likely stronger) character when money is on the line.
Its just an interesting decision its always the same core playstyles that were strongest
Its just an interesting decision its always the same core playstyles that were strongest
Azazel
[12] Conqueror
Funny, two out of my three mains are the most affected ones in the game, yet I love the patch XD
Mandritti
[09] Warrior
Is 6BBB actually going to change? Or just Prep BBB? I'm looking at this English compiled pdf and I don't see 6BBB.
(and seriously, nerfing Prep K - \0_O/ "unintended power !!11" )
At least 33K is 30 damage.
Gojira
[10] Knight
Well, 22B is only the worst part. Can't call much of this good for him.
darkfender
[10] Knight
oh well i think i remember of one stance ...it was called shadow evade....wasn t particularly strong due to being hard to enable but yet gave control over spacing....
Aside that i just want to say that 33KB tracks better that old 22B against steppers if you are 8wring.
Unfortunately its unsafe and worst thing of all (having used it a lot) its TJ start very late BUT you eat tons of backthrow being considered BT.
Also scV forgive less TJ properties when those are HIT...they did a better job compared to scIV so being punished often result in the same combo or damage than any other non TJ unsafe....
Only positive thing, people will care about raph even less than before so time to capitalize on ignorance again.......(see people that NEVER punish 1K, 33KB and such).
piggy
RIP Team Edward
Got in a lot of Raph play today while he was only mostly trashy, now time to find a new tournament character after oh so many years.
Black_Dog
[09] Warrior
I'm considering writing an ode to Project Soul, the ones who never fail to amaze me. After all these years... thank you !
Gamegenie222
[10] Knight
The one beauty of playing a low tier character is opponents ignorance. Also were you guys acting the same way when PS was doing patches and responded to the nerf/buffs to Raph in SCIV as well I wasn't here during those days?
KowtowRobinson
[10] Knight
This one move kept him competitive, and made opponents respect a whole slew of other moves. Only threatening mid he has left to keep smart players from just ducking all your throws is a point blank 236B lol. Sorry but I'm going back to Cervy and mashing on -13 3Bs all day for 80ish damage.
Unless I miss the JF, of course T_T
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WuHT
Premium Moderator
Salvage mode guys!
22B Notes:
22B is now -11 on block (testing K and 4K after blocking against 4B's TC frames).
That 1 frame difference is enough so i16 will not follow through.
22B~3A into wall splat combos STILL work. Stick with 22 B 3A W! A+BA 66A+B for 79ish while 22B 3A W! A+BA 66A+b does 75 (don't try 11BB big whiffing issues).
22B up close (as long as you don't cause the crumple to re-align) will score A+BA pretty good for 63ish damage. The loss is at range, when your choices are either 66A+B or 11BB as follow throughs to push the damage to 44ish. CE is a possibility but the rewards are slightly better post-patch.
If you're a little less than up close (where A+BA may fail), your best bet to follow 22B is probably 3K. it does 42/43 damage, and they're standing for a nice mixup. (Doesn't suffer from ground hit reduction).
prepBBB CH notes:
The only change is this :1) if the first 2 hits are blocked and only the 3rd hit is CH 2) part of a stun chain combo like 4(B).
If you get the stun chain going, then you gain about 3-4 damage by being able to do 2B reliably. However, if you manage to CH someone with prepBBB, the move is actually weaker because now you do 36 total damage on CH. I recall prepBBB being slightly more damage than 6BBB, and I only remember 6BBB being 39 damage. Lets just say you lose 6 damage. The move is still even on hit and CH.
To keep things into persepctive, prepBBB as a CH is now 1/2 the damage of his prepBB BE. This solidifies how awesome prep BB BE is, but its a sneaky way of nerfing his other option to make us aware of it (as if we weren't already)
Breaks guard in 5 instead of 3 (it was such a noob beater back then lol) and is now like -6 on block instead of -12 (safer, thoguh you could have stepped it)
33KBE notes:
With the standard 2B followthrough you get a respectable 76 damage (this move clean hits for a good amoutn of time too). CE can push the damage to 114 if you got meter to waste and you need the round.
The good news (or maybe its just me) is that its really easy to go SE B into 33KBE now (I had trouble with it earlier iirc) and it does at least 1 more damage than 3(B)~prepBBBE without any followthrough (95 vs 94). You can end with a 2B for 100 damage. The only thing is that they're a little farther away from you than if you just did 33KBE into 2B, so you have to dash farther if you wanna mixup for a grab.
prepK notes:
Just as steppable as before, but you can followthrough with 66B+K for 43ish damage on CH as you can only connect with grounded hits. This affects his prep4 imo. Before, you could aGI , follow with prepK and then move in for a mixup. Raph recovers way faster from prepK and can easily execute moves as the buffering frames are available earlier. However, the opponent recovers faster from prep K as well, and the move is now 0 on hit (used to be +4 on hit) as well as is only 18 damage.
So I don't know about prep4~aGI into prepK. Obviously prepkBE is still awesome, but if you don't have meter, you'll have to stick with prepAB as the followup for 30 damage.
So to sum it up, on NH you lose 4 frames on NH, and 10 damage. This affects basically people who just crouch, or after a successful prep4. However on CH you now deal 44 damage (plus knockdown pressure) and this affects people who try to move/attack when you're in prep. Can't tell if its better or worse in the big picture. I'll have to say its easier to buffer commands after getting the prepK though so you lets hope you can react fast.
SEA :
Big time nerf: -6 on block instead of being even (as as prepBB BE now). So much for SE being "really powerful".
22B Notes:
22B is now -11 on block (testing K and 4K after blocking against 4B's TC frames).
That 1 frame difference is enough so i16 will not follow through.
22B~3A into wall splat combos STILL work. Stick with 22 B 3A W! A+BA 66A+B for 79ish while 22B 3A W! A+BA 66A+b does 75 (don't try 11BB big whiffing issues).
22B up close (as long as you don't cause the crumple to re-align) will score A+BA pretty good for 63ish damage. The loss is at range, when your choices are either 66A+B or 11BB as follow throughs to push the damage to 44ish. CE is a possibility but the rewards are slightly better post-patch.
If you're a little less than up close (where A+BA may fail), your best bet to follow 22B is probably 3K. it does 42/43 damage, and they're standing for a nice mixup. (Doesn't suffer from ground hit reduction).
prepBBB CH notes:
The only change is this :1) if the first 2 hits are blocked and only the 3rd hit is CH 2) part of a stun chain combo like 4(B).
If you get the stun chain going, then you gain about 3-4 damage by being able to do 2B reliably. However, if you manage to CH someone with prepBBB, the move is actually weaker because now you do 36 total damage on CH. I recall prepBBB being slightly more damage than 6BBB, and I only remember 6BBB being 39 damage. Lets just say you lose 6 damage. The move is still even on hit and CH.
To keep things into persepctive, prepBBB as a CH is now 1/2 the damage of his prepBB BE. This solidifies how awesome prep BB BE is, but its a sneaky way of nerfing his other option to make us aware of it (as if we weren't already)
Breaks guard in 5 instead of 3 (it was such a noob beater back then lol) and is now like -6 on block instead of -12 (safer, thoguh you could have stepped it)
33KBE notes:
With the standard 2B followthrough you get a respectable 76 damage (this move clean hits for a good amoutn of time too). CE can push the damage to 114 if you got meter to waste and you need the round.
The good news (or maybe its just me) is that its really easy to go SE B into 33KBE now (I had trouble with it earlier iirc) and it does at least 1 more damage than 3(B)~prepBBBE without any followthrough (95 vs 94). You can end with a 2B for 100 damage. The only thing is that they're a little farther away from you than if you just did 33KBE into 2B, so you have to dash farther if you wanna mixup for a grab.
prepK notes:
Just as steppable as before, but you can followthrough with 66B+K for 43ish damage on CH as you can only connect with grounded hits. This affects his prep4 imo. Before, you could aGI , follow with prepK and then move in for a mixup. Raph recovers way faster from prepK and can easily execute moves as the buffering frames are available earlier. However, the opponent recovers faster from prep K as well, and the move is now 0 on hit (used to be +4 on hit) as well as is only 18 damage.
So I don't know about prep4~aGI into prepK. Obviously prepkBE is still awesome, but if you don't have meter, you'll have to stick with prepAB as the followup for 30 damage.
So to sum it up, on NH you lose 4 frames on NH, and 10 damage. This affects basically people who just crouch, or after a successful prep4. However on CH you now deal 44 damage (plus knockdown pressure) and this affects people who try to move/attack when you're in prep. Can't tell if its better or worse in the big picture. I'll have to say its easier to buffer commands after getting the prepK though so you lets hope you can react fast.
SEA :
Big time nerf: -6 on block instead of being even (as as prepBB BE now). So much for SE being "really powerful".
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WuHT
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Friends dont hurt friends with changes like these
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Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
Gojira
[10] Knight
Logged in to my EU account to try the patch a little early. Raph is indeed teh nerf'd.
You can still land 3A off a 22B so if you're near a wall you can get your 3B combo, but eh.
After a blocked SE A, 6B will trade with Ivy's 3B. So, around -6 on guard?
As for CH 6BBB, the ONLY good thing about the stun is the free CE. Otherwise I couldn't even connect 2A at close range. At best you get tech traps. 66A+B will connect unless they tech to Raph's right, in which case A+BA will hit (but doesn't connect otherwise).
Off CH Prep K you can connect with 66A+B or CE. If they're against the wall then A+BA will work.
6BB BE on hit, opponent falls really fast so they can get up almost right when Raph recovers.
Damage for 33K BE, CE is 114.
Well I'm tired and disappointed so I'm going to sleep now.
You can still land 3A off a 22B so if you're near a wall you can get your 3B combo, but eh.
After a blocked SE A, 6B will trade with Ivy's 3B. So, around -6 on guard?
As for CH 6BBB, the ONLY good thing about the stun is the free CE. Otherwise I couldn't even connect 2A at close range. At best you get tech traps. 66A+B will connect unless they tech to Raph's right, in which case A+BA will hit (but doesn't connect otherwise).
Off CH Prep K you can connect with 66A+B or CE. If they're against the wall then A+BA will work.
6BB BE on hit, opponent falls really fast so they can get up almost right when Raph recovers.
Damage for 33K BE, CE is 114.
Well I'm tired and disappointed so I'm going to sleep now.
Slavi
[08] Mercenary
Thats the 2nd thing i tested after the patch and it doesnt work. The opponent can tech roll to either side. It works if you hit with the K pretty close and the opponent try to tech roll to his right, but i dont think its a reliable option. A+B A works near a wall though.
I was hoping for more exciting followups than 2B with this new combo opportunities, but....
66 A+B doesnt work if the opponent tech rolls to his left(Raphael`s right) side.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
the stun is only on Prep BBB not 6BBB
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WuHT
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you can do BE after prepBB or 6BB no problemo.
22B into 1B is not perfectly reliable due to the way they crumple. Feels to me that 66A+B a lil bit more reliable.
prepK is at least -16 punishable as I tested with BB.
22B into 1B is not perfectly reliable due to the way they crumple. Feels to me that 66A+B a lil bit more reliable.
prepK is at least -16 punishable as I tested with BB.
piggy
RIP Team Edward
Sorry, friend, but you are wrong. He's still fun, and you can still win with him if the people you play against are just worse than you, but against people at the same skill level, it is really, really, really, hard to win now.