Tier Discussion

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windirein said:
Cervantes is in no way on alphas level. He is way to punishable and cant build pressure as well as alpha can do. Also I think he is so straight-forward that anyone with good MU knowledge can trash him. While knowing the alpha MU isnt half as good because he just has stuff you cant do jack about. Basing this solely on the competetive plays with both ive watched so far and at no point cervy seemed too strong tbh.
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Lol this post belongs to "The butchering of Cervantes" thread.
 
I dont know man. He's a pretty strong character post patch, well in my book anyways. I'm gonna take the Bruce Lee approach and reprimand the idea of "tiers". It's ALL about the user. Who knows, we might be seeing a Dampierre take the next tourney. xD
 
How many people can make iGDR with 100% reliability ?

I think it's important, because a twister/umbrella is hard, but when the JF is missed, it's not a big problem and the non-JF umbrella can make the job. When a iGDR is missed, it's a total lost of damages and often a strong punishment in the face of Cervy.

It's more easy to make iGDR (I think), but it's more more important to make it with a nearly 100% reliability. For me, iGDR is not necessarly the best way to play him because the damages you win when you make it, you lose them when you miss. I think a 100% effective Cerv is even more unlikely to exist than a 100% Alpha patroklos, because the risk for a missed iGDR is way too strong.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Are u seriously using as an argument for tiers input errors that a player might have? seriously? no dude, u don't rank like that, you need to put it as a in the scenario where there are no fails cause you are talking about the character no the player, is iGDR vs jftwister, not might fail iGDR vs jftwister. God u remind me the logic of namco behind the buffs for Alpha -.-
 
PigBenis said:
How many people can make iGDR with 100% reliability ?

I think it's important, because a twister/umbrella is hard, but when the JF is missed, it's not a big problem and the non-JF umbrella can make the job. When a iGDR is missed, it's a total lost of damages and often a strong punishment in the face of Cervy.
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You're wrong. Only JF Twister hits grounded opponent so if you miss the JF you get no damage in most combos and the opponent can get up and punish you because the normal Twister whiffs.
 
Azazel said:
Are u seriously using as an argument for tiers input errors that a player might have? seriously? no dude, u don't rank like that, you need to put it as a in the scenario where there are no fails cause you are talking about the character no the player, is iGDR vs jftwister, not might fail iGDR vs jftwister. God u remind me the logic of namco behind the buffs for Alpha -.-
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By this logic all characters are equal because you just can JG everything, and every single character has a move that can punish after a JG, some might just take more hits.

I agree instead that potential means nothing if that potential can't be concretely achieved.
 
StSpider said:
By this logic all characters are equal because you just can JG everything, and every single character has a move that can punish after a JG, some might just take more hits.

I agree instead that potential means nothing if that potential can't be concretely achieved.
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no
 
Azazel said:
Post patch.

Top: Cerv, Alpha
High: NM, Pyrrahs, Pat, Mitsu, Asta, Hilde, Viola, Natsu
Mid: Sieg, Maxi, Lexia, Tira, Aeon, Ivy, Xiba, Yoshi, Voldo, Ezio, Algol
Low: Damp, Raph, Zwei

From my point of view the patch did a great job balancing the game regardless of what the haters say.
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I disagree on Tira. She dropped a lot harder with this patch than people who don't play Tira realize.

Gloomy stance is probably mid-high tier at best right now. Which would've been fine if she still had her guaranteed stance changes with Brave Edges. But since they took those out, she's now stuck in Jolly for at least 40% of a match. And Jolly stance Tira was already worse than Damp, Raph, or Zwei pre-patch, and they nerfed it even further. IMO, Tira will turn out to be low tier in 1.02.
 
Yeah, you think they would have helped Ezio out a little, how am I supposed to get this stupid achievement =\
 
That's a fair tier list I would only move mitsu up and perhaps Algol, other than that maybe we can break that tier list into furthur sub-categories, I suppose the mid tier is the real issue as there is more distance between charater performance than in other tiers (high and low); for example high mid Ivy, Yoshi, Xiba, Voldo low mid Lexia, Maxi, Tira, Ezio, Aeon, and Sieg. I feel there is a fair amount of disparity among the mids. As far as the top they are fairly close so the distinction b/w them isn't significant enough to merit further division same for low.
 
windirein said:
So NM top-tier now? :D
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Nightmare was never top tier if you ask me. Lots of 4-6 and even some 3-7 matchups against the top tiers, like Alpha Pat, Omega, regular Pyrrha, Mitsu, Cervantes, etc. I'm not sure how he fares against flavor of the month characters like Viola, because his backstep is really good against her.

I'd probably place him around the higher end of the mid tiers, maybe high B or low A.
 
I know he isnt top tier ;)
I was just mocking all the "2 big tournaments won has to be top-tier"-shoutouts errywhere.
NoFaceKilla was so much better than everyone else at Norcal Regionals, he couldve played with pre-buff Aeon and woulda won handily.
Altho in the case of tournaments those matchup-odds youre listing arent worth a dime because many of those chars u named dont see any top-level play. It really doesnt matter if nighty has bad matchups if he never plays against those. No alpha, omega, pyrrha or cervy in Top 8 afaik and Mitsu imo is not a bad matchup for NM, not from what ive seen.
 
Post patch :

Top: Cerv, Alpha, Omega, Mitsu, Viola
High: Pyrrha, Patroklos*, Asta, Hilde, Natsu, Yoshi*, Voldo*, Algol*, Ivy
Mid: Maxi, ZWEI, Lexia, Tira, Aeon, Xiba, Ezio
Low: Damp, Raph, Sieg

* = characters who may be higher than most people think.

I tried to keep it simple with only 4 types of characters (top/high/mid/low).
If I complicated things a little bit :

Top+ : Alpha, Cervantes
Top- : Omega Mitsu, Viola

Mid: Maxi, Tira, Aeon, Xiba, Leixa
Mid-: ZWEI, Ezio

It still can be won with Sieg. He just has horrible MUs though.


 
I agree with top tiers.

Maxou, can you explain why did you put Aeon so "high"? Right now I think he's definitely bottom tier, worse than Siegfried.
 
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