Viola General Discussion / Q&A

bushindu said:
yh but you have a choice of 2A+B or 6A+B, however today I did something odd, where after AAB on airborne, 9B caught opponent and created a floor stun
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Gotta test this out.

Just tested it out. They can aircontrol back+left/right but it sends them pretty far back. Might be good for some jank. If they don't aircontrol, it puts them in a pretty decent position for a 6B+K mixup (not so much so if they aircontrol to the left/right and not back; 1k whiffs on Pyrrha after 6B+K). It does 1 more damage than the 2a+b setup and leaves them a bit closer than they usually are, though. There's nothing super threatening that's guaranteed (i.e. a relaunch) if they don't aircontrol, though.
 
We should compile a list of characters that 3b -->6a+b works on; it has decent followups and nice oki. And it's one of the most practical ways to get rid of the orb.
 
Synraii said:
We are still early in the game, but I think we can all agree 44A BE needs to lose its hit confirmable state, so broke, lol. But yeah, Viola is the sex. ^_^
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Playing the nerf/buff game, if they did take away the delay, 44a would either need to be much, much safer or they would have to keep the delay for 44ab and give it something to actually threaten your opponent with.

So many other characters have way more safe, meterless, and spammable shit that's more applicable than her 44a that it doesn't make sense. It only make sense to zero in on Viola's 44A because people think it's 'cheap'. Like it or not, Viola can only be a really good or really bad character. Viola has near the most mediocre stepkill in the game outside of 44a, no range, can't punish shit, average throw damage, and is either slow or unsafe on damn near all of her stuff. I want to know how else these people propose she get damage in.

People have a problem with 44a be? They could just fuckin' block and stop doing dumb shit at -239283984...but that's no good. Funny how all these players were talking about how the game needs good delays and GBs...but now they get some and they decide they can't deal with them.

Don't get me wrong, I think 44a has a problem in the fact that it leads to a half life combo...but not because of it being hit confirmable.

Yeah, I know I'm on a soapbox right now...but this whole nerf until everything 'just right' attitude is getting old and fuckin' annoying. I honestly don't think any of the characters, even Mits, are broken at this point (Possibly Algol but everyone sucks with him); a couple of characters need to be buffed and glitches fixed.

My proof? The two players I taught the Viola matchup haven't lost to any Viola other than mine. They're proof? I don't even know anymore.

EDIT: I will also bet dollars to donuts that Keev doesn't lose to another Viola after playing me. Like I said earlier in one of these topics...she's new, she's good, and she doesn't play traditional Calibur...those factors alone are giving a lot of the traditional players problems...not just 44a BE.

EDIT2: Speaking of Viola punishment...we really need to compile a list. She can't punish a lot but some stuff becomes downright spammable if you don't. I'm also starting to think that FC 2A should become the FC punishment of choice for her...
 
LostProvidence said:
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I disagree - a move with that much damage output seems like a whiff punisher to me. Its nowhere near as bad as Dampierre 11B safety wise and if they want to 'punish' the BE version, they have to spend meter for nothing garunteed, if they have no meter you get a secondary mixup.

44A BE right now feels like Mitsu 66BB. Now THIS is a good delay string move, because the risk/reward on disrespecting it isn't in the same universe as 44A BE. Mitsu hits you - good damage, KND and oki. Viola hits you, well, we've seen the video where your combo failed against Ramon and killed you, but had it worked consider what that one move caused and from where*. This should not be a safe mid you can freely mix up with. I think Maxou said it was the undisputed best move in the game and he's probably right. She doesn't need this.

* I appreciate it was a full meter combo. But a hit confirmable, step catching, mid hitting doom combo? Really?
 
Synraii said:
I disagree - a move with that much damage output seems like a whiff punisher to me. Its nowhere near as bad as Dampierre 11B and if they want to 'punish' the BE version, they have to spend meter for nothing garunteed, if they have no meter you get a secondary mixup.

44A BE right now feels like Mitsu 66BB. Now THIS is a good delay string move, because the risk/reward on disrespecting it isn't in the same universe as 44A BE. Mitsu hits you - good damage, KND and oki. Viola hits you, well, we've seen the video where your combo failed against Ramon and killed you, but had it worked consider what that one move caused and from where*. This should not be a safe mid you can freely mix up with. I think Maxou said it was the undisputed best move in the game and he's probably right. She doesn't need this.

* I appreciate it was a full meter combo. But a hit confirmable, step catching, mid hitting doom combo? Really?
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I said a long time ago that Viola's RO game is pretty overpowered but that's beside the point. Also, if you're getting whiff punished frequently by 44a, you're probably doing something wrong (not to mention there are many characters who can punish just as hard off of a whiff for as much meter).

Is it the best attack in the game? That's up to dispute (there are lots of 'overpowered' attacks in SC and has always been). The point I'm trying to make about all of this is that you all are looking at these things in a microcosm instead of looking at the overall picture, which is part of the reason a lot of this 'balancing' sounds silly. Mits isn't the best (IMO) because he has one good tool; NM isn't overpowered because he can get more than half life off a very practical wall combos. The point that I'm trying to make is that these characters all have stuff that can be deemed overpowered if you put those things into a vacuum without taking under consideration of all the character's tools (excluding Mits...he's just dumb). I want to see Viola keep up with the damage of any of these characters by just whiff punishing with 3b all day and then you tell me 44a BE is too overpowered for her.
 
Not at all, just that mid step catchers capable of dealing more damage than an Algol double CE combo should not be hit confirmable, lol. Considering its damage output, I would hope my opponent was getting hit for it because they fucked up bigtime, not made one silly twitchduck, lol. I don't oppose the damage, I just feel that to justify it you should have to commit*:
NM has to commit with 3B, Asta with throws, shame about Cervantes 3B, but fuck him, lol.


*Though you confirm it from an unsafe, disrespecting it carries a HIGH price on the read, so I wouldn't call it a traditional unsafe, its like SCIV Amy 3B - if you couldn't option select the punish, it would go unpunished so often at any level of play. And that was a much lesser risk...
 
Synraii said:
Not at all, just that mid step catchers capable of dealing more damage than an Algol double CE combo should not be hit confirmable, lol. Considering its damage output, I would hope my opponent was getting hit for it because they fucked up bigtime, not made one silly twitchduck, lol. I don't oppose the damage, I just feel that to justify it you should have to commit*:
NM has to commit with 3B, Asta with throws, shame about Cervantes 3B, but fuck him, lol.


*Though you confirm it from an unsafe, disrespecting it carries a HIGH price on the read, so I wouldn't call it a traditional unsafe, its like SCIV Amy 3B - if you couldn't option select the punish, it would go unpunished so often at any level of play. And that was a much lesser risk...
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NM has to commit to 3B? Any NM players worth anything's only using that to whiff punish after his stupid ass backstep. Asta has to commit to throws but can get 80% off them and his throws have more range than some characters' pokes; Cerv has a really good launcher and IGDR BE, Ba, greats pokes all around, good range, and is much safer before; aPat has a spammable, safe, TCing launcher that goes full screen and is CH confirmable into 110+ meterless damage and stupid damaging throws. I could go on and on about tools that are 'OP' in this game...but, fact of the matter is that characters need stuff like that to make players say, "O shit, this is what I have to watch out for when I play *X*."

I would go on, but, you know what, I don't even care, honestly. If the devs nerf Viola, they nerf her...but I guarantee people will just find something new to bitch about...it goes on in every fighting game.
 
LostProvidence said:
NM has to commit to 3B? Any NM players worth anything's only using that to whiff punish after his stupid ass backstep. Asta has to commit to throws but can get 80% off them and his throws have more range than some characters' pokes; Cerv has a really good launcher and IGDR BE, Ba, greats pokes all around, good range, and is much safer before; aPat has a spammable, safe, TCing launcher that goes full screen and is CH confirmable into 110+ meterless damage and stupid damaging throws. I could go on and on about tools that are 'OP' in this game...but, fact of the matter is that characters need stuff like that to make players say, "O shit, this is what I have to watch out for when I play *X*."

I would go on, but, you know what, I don't even care, honestly. If the devs nerf Viola, they nerf her...but I guarantee people will just find something new to bitch about...it goes on in every fighting game.
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Alpha 33B is unsafe against Alpha =3.
And I'd say NM commits: backstep ~ 3B will only catch certain whiffs if done immediately, if you're a little slow, you'll pay for it, in fact I've seen games where Alpha players bait out the backstep/sidestep, do kG and launch him when he fires 3B in reaction.

The thing is, Viola had plenty going for her before making the BE delayable was even introduced. Plenty.
Its not as though she was mediocre, she was already competitive. Then she got this. You can't tell me you feel hopeless without 44A BE? 3B alone can do 174 for goodness sake, lol.
44A you can use to poke with and hope you get lucky, if it gets blocked its no big deal, opponent still has to take a major risk for punishment on the first hit. She had more than enough for the opponent to think 'watch out for this' already.
 
bushindu said:
just out of curiosity does anyone else here, use
LNC, aab 2A+B 2B+K BE aab 9K 2B+K BE, B+K CE, run up to him and aab etc
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3B AAB 9K 2B+K(BE) B+K CE run up AAB 66B 66A+BB is 135 damage. Would be interesting, but timing is really tight on that.
 
Aragh said:
3B AAB 9K 2B+K(BE) B+K CE run up AAB 66B 66A+BB is 135 damage. Would be interesting, but timing is really tight on that.
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yeah the dmg isnt great considering, but if you have the chance and its like the last round, you can pretty much RO from the centre of any map w/o walls,
Timing is a bit ergh, but with practice anything becomes possible
 
In training I tested 44A BE- 6+K-6B-3B-AAB-2A+B-2B+K BE-AAB-66B-66A+B-B and did damage in the range of 118 to 143 but the same combo without 6B+K-6B did damage in the range of 112 to 135. Is it really worth 8 more damage for the work?
 
Ryder said:
It is free damage for no effort...

If you really don't like doing 6B+K 6B, try:
44A(BE) 33(B)...
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Free damage can't be argued. I was just disappointed after learning the combo that it really didn't gain me much damage potential. But I'll do it now 'cuz I can.

I learned that 33(B) is AC'd. Though you can still hit them with 6AB-B+K BE . "A" misses, but the "B" send hits and can be B+K BE'd with good timing.

I also worked on 6AB-B+K BE-6(A+B)-2B+K BE-AAB-2A+B-2B+K BE-AAB-66B-66A+BB. 19 hits with a potential for up to 185 damage. It's a meter burner but it can put an end to over zealous side-stepping.
 
jwdinkc said:
In training I tested 44A BE- 6+K-6B-3B-AAB-2A+B-2B+K BE-AAB-66B-66A+B-B and did damage in the range of 118 to 143 but the same combo without 6B+K-6B did damage in the range of 112 to 135. Is it really worth 8 more damage for the work?
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- Damage is damage, every bit helps!
- You'll gain more meter back :D
- If you want more damage, do or learn doing AAB 6A+B (slight charge) 2B+K BE... It's harder to pull off but it usually does way more damage and it carries better.
 
I can say completely and utterly that people really need to be exploring the game more if they think Viola is broken. After a little session, I can quite honestly say that Mits, Cervy, aPat, oPyr, and Algol are the top 5 in this game. People just need to learn how to play against Viola. With that being said, I go back to Dragon's Dogma!

Before I go, I neglected to mention that Viola has bad matchups against all those characters too! ...But she's overpowered?! lol.

Okay, Dogma time.
 
LostProvidence said:
I can say completely and utterly that people really need to be exploring the game more if they think Viola is broken. After a little session, I can quite honestly say that Mits, Cervy, aPat, oPyr, and Algol are the top 5 in this game. People just need to learn how to play against Viola. With that being said, I go back to Dragon's Dogma!

Before I go, I neglected to mention that Viola has bad matchups against all those characters too! ...But she's overpowered?! lol.

Okay, Dogma time.
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THANKYOU, tbh people who says shes need to learn how step and solved and she'll suck
lol just thinking shes like a tekken character, few moves on their own that are do much, but she will juggle the shit out of you xD
 
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