Djangoknight
[10] Knight
it does combo on counter hit o.o
Balance Patch Discussion
- Thread starter Belial
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Silencer
[09] Warrior
I can't help that see that this in response to my post. You misunderstand completely. I have merely voted against 32). I have left the other options open. At the moment I am indifferent against Leixia. I can support buffs but I think buffing damage is not the way to go. Tbh from all that i have read, there has not been much negative Leixia response :I
Silencer
[09] Warrior
I am sure I will receive the curses of few Mitsu players, but 1A B, 236 B, CE, CE (W!), 66BB should be more than 170 damage, unless I am stupid.. 100% damage possibly, but hitting the starter is a joke.
Edit: Tested this, but with 66BB replaced with 3B, the highest amounts i got were
236 and 251 damage with a counterhit. Mmm, round ender damage :]
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
Your post quoted a few wall combo numbers randomly, including 2 that don't even work, then claimed that these numbers were all the justification you needed to reject giving Leixia a damage buff. There are MANY characters with wall combos that do similar or even greater damage than what Leixia can pull off.
You have to understand, most of the combos I listed are her MAX damage combos. Setting these up is similar to setting up on of Astaroth's max damage wall sequences. You must be at a specific angle (in this case, as close to perpendicular to the wall as possible) to make 4A+B or 44[A], AA BE-based sequences connect. As soon as you go off axis by more than 20 degrees or so, you'll lose one or more wall hits and completely ruin the combo.
The lowest damage character in the game has a few nasty combos when she backs you up against the wall at just the right spot - this is hardly overpowered, and not a good reason to deny her buffs. There are PLENTY of places she can be buffed that will produce minimal impact on wall combos. WR B BE, Throws, every single A-based move except 44[A], and almost every single B-based move except 3B, FC3B, 66B(B_bB). I could go on for days listing out moves that don't have any real effect on wall combo damage.
Even if her launchers (namely 3B and FC3B) get a little buff in the 5-10 damage range, this won't do too much to her wall combos when scaling kicks in. You'll see increases of no more than 10 damage overall at the end of the combo. "General damage increase" doesn't necessarily imply flat damage increases across the board. It can mean changes to a number of individual moves that result in a general damage increase.
Silencer
[09] Warrior
You have combos that only work in specific conditions? Against set amount of characters? Boo fucking hoo. Welcome to the club. However this discussion is meaningless as i more or less support your cause. Sorry i cannot discuss leixia, i only know how to fight against her..
Paranormal_Oreo
[12] Conqueror
I always test with ukemi. It definitely works. Its timing is strict vs sides but it definitely works. Try it on Voldo or Nm. Those are the two that I know it works on. So yes it is a combo.
Force-Destruct
[10] Knight
To test combos, test them on Pyrrha and Astaroth (THE LARGEST and SMALLEST characters) and then test them.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
Leixia really does need a damage buff on something she makes Raph feel like he has an equal on damage potential...
kAb
[12] Conqueror
there are TONS of character specific combos in this game, not even testing against pyrrah or asta is 100% way to see if it connects. toe stuns in particular a character will fall to the left or right and change which combo you have to do depending on the matchup.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
I never was never complaining about the difficulty of the combos. You're missing the point here. You claim that a few of her potential wall combos justify keeping her as weak as she is. Everyone has combos that do a lot of damage when the right conditions are met. The difference is that most of those characters do decent (or more than decent) damage outside of those strict scenarios. Outside of these combos, Leixia doesn't even come close on damage.
Did you test it with a dummy Ukemi, or by recording the combo with Leixia, using it on yourself, and teching that way?
I've just spent 20 minutes training against Voldo and Nightmare using this method, and I absolutely cannot produce a timing for WR B BE that isn't techable no matter how many times I try. I tried several different setups and combos to see if a 1 vs 2 wallhits made a difference, and still nothing. Teching to one side sometimes gets partially hit by WE B BE, but never gets picked off the ground. The other side evades entirely.
If there is truly a way to make it untechable, I cannot reproduce it. If possible, please post a video clearly demonstrating that you are teching to the side against a recorded Leixia.
Paranormal_Oreo
[12] Conqueror
I have done both me teching vs recorded and com teching vs me. If it hits a few times, do it faster. If it doesn't hit, also do it faster.
I can't do a video until the 17th since I'm on vacation right now.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
Is there something you're doing to get her out of BT and into FC tbat's faster than just holding G till the end of the BT B+K animation, then quickly inputting 25bA+B+K (release G after the 2)?
If timed too early, I get BB or FC B instead.
Silencer
[09] Warrior
I made a post to try to clarify, that I am ok with Leixia buffs, but not with damage buffs. How will she stay weaker, if she gets buffs. Maybe the top Leixia players could have come up with something better than a "general damage buff".This discussion hurts my head, it seems i should not have posted anything at all.
Ps.
Second ps. I had a suggestion buffing the mitsu unblockable, it was fully ignored. Less sympathy from me.
Paranormal_Oreo
[12] Conqueror
No tricks really. Mash A+B+K if you're getting WR B.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
Why are buffs to moves that don't affect wall combos still a bad thing? I don't see why her damage can't go up in other areas. Your original argument against her buffs was solely justified by how high her wall combos can go. You still have yet to make any attempt to address this point. The line highlighted in pink speaks for itself.
The top Leixia players did come up with something better than a general damage buff. Those who constructed the community vote options did not list all these changes, in favor of a more general statement that is open to interpretation. Once again I say, general damage buff does not automatically mean a flat damage increase to all moves across the board. It implies an increase in damage to certain specific moves for that character which result in an overall increase in damage in general.
The point of #32 is to get the community's opinion on IF Leixia should receive some kind of damage buff, without specifically pointing to WHERE these buffs should go. This would most likely be determined at a later date when a general consensus is reached. If you're simply against any kind of damage buff whatsoever for any reason, then that's your opinion, but based on your previous posts, your argument hinges on her wall combo damage. If you have other reasons to oppose a damage increase, then feel free to post them here to clarify your argument.
Why would Mitsu's unblockable get buffed? He's already a top tier character with fantastic damage and versatility. Why would my lack of response to a Mitsu suggestion have anything to do with your "sympathy" for my argument on buffing Leixia? The line highlighted in pink once again speaks for itself.
After another half an hour of testing, I've managed to produce a WR B BE that cannot be teched (most of the time). If NM techs one way, the BT B+K hits, but if he techs the other way, he gets hit by WE B BE, but not BT B+K. The BT B+K always whiffs if he techs the other way.
Furthermore, I've determined that if the initial wall hit is at an angle, it becomes much easier to tech the WR B BE. Your combo *is* possible, but requires specific a space from the wall at a specific angle against certain characters teching a certain way.
Real_Bojack
[10] Knight
Don't be so sour grapes on your own character. The only real problem he has is damage output. If you're getting stepped too much or not landing your lows then you're playing him wrong. His real issue that you can't really work around is damage output and still requiring a CH for any real damage...... which is really a case for his damage being too low anyways.
I also disagree 100% about his 4A not having SC2 crumple on CH back. That made it a good move. Now there's no real reason to use it. I have to chastise myself for using it now because a simple step~something else would have been a better choice in ANY situation. Other characters get buckets of damage from moves with either side evasion or simple step~move so it would not break the game AT ALL for Raph to get a CH off of 4A. He got 4A crumple in 2 and 3 and was still bottom feeding in those games despite it. 4A crumple would fix a lot of his issues IMO.
Silencer
[09] Warrior
"Why are buffs to moves that don't affect wall combos still a bad thing?"
At the very first sentence you are trying to twist my words into something I have never said in any of my posts.
Number 32 is Leixia
32. General
a) Damage increase
I have voted to my current knowledge of the game, trying to not be biased, this entry is not saying, (oh only buff those moves that do not affect wall combos cheers)
This was not about your response to my suggestion. It was just a general note, however I understand, Belial chose to cut a lot of content. Not everyone shares the opinions presented here on Mitsu. What versatility? Mitsu is running on a limited amount of tools, taking a way something feels like a recipe for disaster
Wandrian
I don't know.
...Did I just completely miss the boat here? I swear every time I've used it online, people are getting back up and blocking after the first two hits are CH.
Solo
[14] Master
This thread is hilarious! First someone says Pyrrha Omega needs buffs and now this argument about Leixia I refuse to join. Leixia arguments go nowhere, there is no convincing a Leixia player even if you play Leixia yourself (not saying I do). Well, let the hilarity continue.
On Topic: Sieg needs at least 50 meterless damage off of 3B (both knees) instead of the current 39. 39 damage of off your launcher is pretty sad don't you think?
On Topic: Sieg needs at least 50 meterless damage off of 3B (both knees) instead of the current 39. 39 damage of off your launcher is pretty sad don't you think?
WuHT
Premium Moderator
I tried very hard to remain objective in listing a "by-design" approach to show just how a character has intended areas of strengths and weaknesses, and how severe they are in when actually played. How am I being sour grapes? I don't recall ever falsely pretending that I don't care or don't want buffs due to my main ending up being low tier, nor did I ever excuse my losses for saying the game hasn't treated my character fair enough. I don't know why you're trying to call me out, and especially in the context of being a sore loser.
Changing anyone's damage will eventually reach a balance as long as you tweak it in the right direction. In Raph's case, if you only buff damage and nothing else (no bug fixes, no frame changes) then he'd approach mitsurugi damage and that is another step towards homogeneity. It is a faster but a lazier way to fix things if you disregard everything else. CH only benefits his pokes and not his combo starters (at least thats where I categorize 1K and prepK).[/quote]
This post helps no one and contributes nothing
It has insane range, tech crouches, does insane damage on CH, and can be semi safe due to stance shenanigans. And my character's "standard" 3B combo is 38 damage so no I don't think sieg's is "sad".
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