Rise of Leixia!

Status
Not open for further replies.
What I'd like to see is the same thing occur with everyone that's doomsaying Leixia as a character: realize she's still quite valid and competitive.
Valid and competitive compared to which character? I want to see proof and well-reasoned arguments rather than just "A non tier character won Evo so therefore Leixia."

She's still usable but I seriously am not seeing what quality about her leads you to believe that she's valid and competitive, with competitive meaning that she stands a chance in tournaments not that she can win here and there.
 
I'm sorry, Leixia is my favorite character in the history of Soul Calibur, saying that I do not *TRULY* know Leixia was just a tad bit insulting, even more so to EVERY other good Leixia player pre-1.03. Kayane, RTD, and everybody else who used her religiously, then stopped because of the unnecessary hammer she received.

No sir. I cannot agree with you. If Kayane and everyone else dropping Leixia want to be twats because of the game becoming more balanced and seek out tier whoring as a resolution, that's their problem. Don't make it yours.

You can do better, I'm certain. So why not stop looking for excuses and do so? Isn't that what this whole thread is about? C'mon. If you're that confident in yourself and that determined, why not prove it? Take me up on my challenge of winning some tournies with Leixia to earn my cookies and intrawebz <3



EmptySky00 said:
Valid and competitive compared to which character? I want to see proof and well-reasoned arguments rather than just "A non tier character won Evo so therefore Leixia."

She's still usable but I seriously am not seeing what quality about her leads you to believe that she's valid and competitive, with competitive meaning that she stands a chance in tournaments not that she can win here and there.

If you just took her frames and guard burst ability, she's got lots to work with. That safe and that good at guard pressure? Combined with crazy mixups? Sounds good in my book. So far none of the doomsaying has been able to shoot down any of the nifty bits the more positive Leixia mains have been stating.


A reminder, sir, we have a wonderfully balanced game where tiers are essentially irrelevant. Figure out how to deal with it and everything will be gold.
 
No sir. I cannot agree with you. If Kayane and everyone else dropping Leixia want to be twats because of the game becoming more balanced and seek out tier whoring as a resolution, that's their problem. Don't make it yours.

You can do better, I'm certain. So why not stop looking for excuses and do so? Isn't that what this whole thread is about? C'mon. If you're that confident in yourself and that determined, why not prove it? Take me up on my challenge of winning some tournies with Leixia to earn my cookies and intrawebz <3





If you just took her frames and guard burst ability, she's got lots to work with. That safe and that good at guard pressure? Combined with crazy mixups? Sounds good in my book. So far none of the doomsaying has been able to shoot down any of the nifty bits the more positive Leixia mains have been stating.


A reminder, sir, we have a wonderfully balanced game where tiers are essentially irrelevant. Figure out how to deal with it and everything will be gold.

Guard burst leads to how much? And you get one per game maybe two if your opponent lets you. And what does it do aside from sort of add to her overall damage output? Low damage low damage low damage one moderate burst here and there still means mediocre damage. Pat gets just as much for a 66B hit. Pyrrha Omega can do guard burst damage too for substantially more reward. Her mixups are by no means crazy. Not sure why you think that. She has them but your opponent has to more or less panic or not know what they're doing for it to actually give you complete control.

Being overly optimistic is foolish. I prefer honesty. She can win, kind of, but she isn't really up to par with a majority of the cast.

Tiers are never literally relevant. It's just an abstract ranking system. It doesn't say who can and can't win and I'm sure everyone knows this.

Perhaps I'll be more willing to agree when I see a Leixia win something or someone provides me with something more than generalized fallacies based on people who can't play the MU. <_< For reasons other than "Lawl opponent didn't know how to step/punish 66BB and kept eating feints that murdered their guard gauge" <-- in other words MU ignorance. I doubt that extreme a scenario would occur in a major.
 
So she doesn't hit as hard as Astaroth, reach as far as Xiba, kill step like Ivy, or have Viola's combo ability. So what? Most characters don't either.

realism=/=optimism=/=ignorance

Leixia has MANY great strengths going for her. The only reason she isn't winning tourneys is because everyone that mains her is pussing out instead of trying to reach that level.


Think of it like how Patsuka is. It's blatantly obvious to anyone with the teensiest comprehension of the game mechanics that he's a very, *VERY* strong character and requires a very good player to master. Leixia's low damage is analogous to Patsuka's execution barrier. If you can't get your execution down, Patsuka isn't competitive. If you can't handle dealing less damage, Leixia isn't competitve.

Go ahead and think I'm insulting you or anyone else. All that does is take the insults you're perceiving and prove them true. You're not winning tourneys with Leixia, you're obviously not good enough to play her. Prove me wrong and win my cookies & intrawebz, go win some tourneys with Leixia.
 
Eh, I think that kind of an endorsement is a bit...well, bad :(

Much respect sir, but that's...like an endorsement I'd give it's so bad lolololol.


I'm going to be stubborn on my opinion though. You guys that are doomsayers prove me wrong with something more than citing Leixia's damage or lack of someone winning major tourneys as reasons to why she's bad. I mean, by the standards of winning major tourneys aren't Cervantes and Patsuka bad as well?
 
So she doesn't hit as hard as Astaroth, reach as far as Xiba, kill step like Ivy, or have Viola's combo ability. So what? Most characters don't either.

realism=/=optimism=/=ignorance

Leixia has MANY great strengths going for her. The only reason she isn't winning tourneys is because everyone that mains her is pussing out instead of trying to reach that level.


Think of it like how Patsuka is. It's blatantly obvious to anyone with the teensiest comprehension of the game mechanics that he's a very, *VERY* strong character and requires a very good player to master. Leixia's low damage is analogous to Patsuka's execution barrier. If you can't get your execution down, Patsuka isn't competitive. If you can't handle dealing less damage, Leixia isn't competitve.

Go ahead and think I'm insulting you or anyone else. All that does is take the insults you're perceiving and prove them true. You're not winning tourneys with Leixia, you're obviously not good enough to play her. Prove me wrong and win my cookies & intrawebz, go win some tourneys with Leixia.

What? Execution barriers mean what exactly? Everyone at a tournament level is expected to have perfect or near-perfect execution. It just makes the character more elitist so to speak. Again you're offering generalized "i'm right you're just not seeing it" arguments and faulty comparisons. Low damage =/= execution barrier. If you get 80 damage combos for mastering a few just frames then you're clearly a hell of a lot better than a character that gets 40 damage if she manages to land a hit. And the whole last paragraph.. what the hell? "You're not winning tournaments so you're not good enough to play said character" Not everyone can win/travel to tournaments bro. And because I'm calling you out on faulty logic that validates your statements? Not seeing the reasoning there. And obviously not all Leixia players "pussed out."

I'm not even really trying to fight about this. I just hate when people devalidate Leixia's plight because of their misconceived notions about her viability. I merely asked for specific, well-reasoned statements that prove what you're trying to say. And you say "You're not good enough and you're not trying hard enough."

And I have the opinions of a lot of really good, tournament placing Leixia players on my side. All against
against... "Well, Tira won."

I see.
k.

Edit: Cervy and Patsuka aren't bad because they have very definitive characteristics that make them very effective. What does Leixia have? 70 damage guard burst combos, some safety, and mixups that work when you're opponent's sleeping.
 
No sir. I cannot agree with you. If Kayane and everyone else dropping Leixia want to be twats because of the game becoming more balanced and seek out tier whoring as a resolution, that's their problem. Don't make it yours.

You can do better, I'm certain. So why not stop looking for excuses and do so? Isn't that what this whole thread is about? C'mon. If you're that confident in yourself and that determined, why not prove it? Take me up on my challenge of winning some tournies with Leixia to earn my cookies and intrawebz <3

Oh, please. I never said I stopped using her, now did I? =P Still my main. I'd rather quit SCV itself than stop playing Leixia.

But, they're not excuses. Leixia as a character was over-nerfed. A lot of the things that made her special were taken away, and now, pretty much everything she can do, there's another character that can do it better. But, you know. I don't find jumping ship from near the bottom of the barrel for tournaments itself tier-whoring, I'd only find it that because they immediately jumped up to the top of the barrel. But, it's not like they didn't try...well, Kayane, that is. RTD jumped ship immediately.

I could take up your challenge, but that would require me not to be absolutely disgusted at Namco Bandai for short sticking my favorite character. I mean, honestly, doesn't have to be high tier, but mid would be nice.

If you just took her frames and guard burst ability, she's got lots to work with. That safe and that good at guard pressure? Combined with crazy mixups? Sounds good in my book. So far none of the doomsaying has been able to shoot down any of the nifty bits the more positive Leixia mains have been stating.

A reminder, sir, we have a wonderfully balanced game where tiers are essentially irrelevant. Figure out how to deal with it and everything will be gold.

Remember that old commercial "Anything you can do I can do better?" That's kind of the situation that Leixia's in. Rugi can do most of what Leixia does, minus the frame pressure. She can mix-up, sure, but it would require an almost hilarious amount of defensive failure at the EVO level. Further, it would take an exceptionally skilled person to win a tournament with her, unless, one thing made the difference. It would, most likely, have to be a play-style that comes naturally to them. I'm in that boat, (except when I play Algol!), but while I'm pretty decent, I'm not skilled like that with her. So, the naturalness just kind of goes to waste.

The only reason tiers are irrelevant is because every character mid or above can cut part of their moveset and slug with the high tiers. Leixia and ZWEI, do not, and if they somehow do, it won't be found, because not only are the other characters easier to use, and win with, but also much much much more well rounded. As unfortunate as it is. What we really need to do is find some hidden moves or something.

Regarding her guard burst, many characters are much stronger. Once upon a time she had the strongest in the game, and it was one of her strengths, but they took that away too. And now she has some of the worst in terms of safety for her burst.
 
Isn't this thread supposed to be POSITIVE?
No, because I'm here. The cynical pessimistic misanthropist who demands logic over faulty reasoning <_> And I need something to do mang.

And I don't think the word positive is the correct word. From what I'm gathering, it was a "TIRA DID IT NOW STOP BITCHING" proclamation. Do Leixia players sometimes have a tendency to bitch about the nerfs? Yes, certainly. Are they unjustified? For the most part, no.
 
No, because I'm here. The cynical pessimistic misanthropist who demands logic over faulty reasoning <_> And I need something to do mang.
I think it's hilarious how every argument people make about Leixia I can say the same thing about Sieg. I'm going to just leave this alone though. Continue on... *grabs popcorn*
 
I think it's hilarious how every argument people make about Leixia I can say the same thing about Sieg. I'm going to just leave this alone though. Continue on... *grabs popcorn*
Oh I'm in the "buff Sieg" boat, too. But no one's saying "Tira won so Sieg can too!" so he's not relevant to this argument. It's just perpetual and people need to stop suggesting that she's only bad because the players are bad and are unwilling to try and make her work. What do they think the remaining Leixia players have been TRYING to do ever since the nerfs?
 
Leixia has MANY great strengths going for her. The only reason she isn't winning tourneys is because everyone that mains her is pussing out instead of trying to reach that level.

You're not winning tourneys with Leixia, you're obviously not good enough to play her.

Yo my man... I appreciate what you attempted to do, but I gotta stop you right there.

First of all, your character winning EVO was great. We all liked it. You are very wrong however when you claim the game balanced. I'm not into all the "whining" either, but what you're saying doesn't prove anything except you're just an outsider looking in. You play Tira. It'd be like all the Xianghua mains in SC4 telling Rock players they aren't winning because they "just aren't good enough".

You can't compare Alpha to Leixia... At all. Execution you can get down with practice. You don't "deal with doing less damage" by practice. Less damage is always less. You can't improve upon it. If you really sit back and think about your last couple posts, you should realize they don't make sense. (I'm not gonna break down all the reasons why here. if you wanna know we can go to PMs)

Tiers are very real, Matchup disadvantages are very real. The fact that Mitsurgui's CH poke damage is the same as a number of Leixia NH combos is very real. Yes. You are being insulting when you claim that those of us who do go to tournaments and test stuff out aren't TRYING, and also naive if you claim that this is a balanced game. With a few tweaks it can be, but atm absolutely not.
 
Isn't this thread supposed to be POSITIVE?
No, it was doomed to fail when Shinji inadvertently compared Tira's victory to a potential Leixia one. I'll have to overhaul again I suppose. But some of y'all non Leixia players need to stop deluding yourselves too.
 
^Please close this. It was supposed to be a positive, cheerful thread that I would enjoy but now it's a bunch of people bitching. >.<
 
Leixia's strength is in how versatile her move list is. Many situations are easier to guess correctly in as her, if you don't believe me try playing Xiba or Raph. Dealing weak damage isn't as big a deal when you can take less risk and cover more options.

Problem is there are characters who are almost as (or more in the case of Mitsu) versatile and get better damage. That doesn't magically make her impossible to do well with though.
 
Edit: Cervy and Patsuka aren't bad because they have very definitive characteristics that make them very effective. What does Leixia have? 70 damage guard burst combos, some safety, and mixups that work when you're opponent's sleeping.

...There are many things I don't like of what he said, but this is just outright untrue. Break with WR K or 44K, and you're getting whatever the net of 44[A] -> AA BE -> 3B -> 1B is. And there's no way that's 70. More like 90-something.
 
Leixia's strength is in how versatile her move list is. Many situations are easier to guess correctly in as her, if you don't believe me try playing Xiba or Raph. Dealing weak damage isn't as big of deal when you can take less risk and cover more options.

Problem is there are characters who are almost (or more in the case of Mitsu) versatile and get better damage. That doesn't magically make her impossible to do well with though.
You and I talked about this online, so you know where I stand with her. But I can do without people tellin me she's better than she is or that guys like me aren't trying to win with what we've been stuck with via nerfing.
 
this thread seems to be more of a battle. Realist vs. Idealist. there is no swaying one side to think or understand the ways of the other it seems. so we should all just come to an agreement that we have our own playing styles and different interpretations of Leixia and her competitiveness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom