EVO Update: Top 8

With the rest of the mods enjoying the nice, cool Vegas casino weather, I felt it was appropriate to update everyone with how yesterday's matches went if for whatever reason you're having trouble (like I initially was) finding the results/brackets, or maybe you're just new to the scene and not quite sure where to go for information.

With a full day off today (Saturday) before they finish out top 8 (Sunday), you gotta keep yourself occupied somehow, right? If you haven't been paying attention to the biggest and hypest tournament in the world, you'll be in for some surprises

Top 8

Winners:
Xephukai (USA) - Asta (also, Patroklos)
Something-Unique (USA) - Pyrrha
Shen Chan (SG) - Cervantes
CRNA|Ruka (JAP) - Patroklos

Losers:
Kura (KOR) - Patroklos
Woahhzz (USA) - Alpha Patroklos
Shining Decapon (JAP) - Tira
Kamaage (JAP) - Mitsurugi

TOP 8 STARTS AT 10 AM PST. DON'T MISS IT!!!!!


HEADLINES:
-France out!
In a surprising turn of events, both Keev and Kayane lost some tough (extremely hype) matches. Keev now has himself an official EVO nemesis having both losses come from the same player. [NOTE: The EVO bracket is incorrect for the Keev/Kura match; Keev did NOT win that match.]

-International players sans France having a strong performance!
If you were watching the stream and listening to the commentary, you probably noticed that even players like Bibulus were taken aback by the performance of foreign players not normally known for their SC dominance, such as the Singaporeans.

-MAJOR comebacks!
Although this is certainly true for many specific matches (there were SO many close matches to even begin to list), there were some players that have straight-up faced the gauntlet in terms of their bracket. Kamaage (who you'll notice is in the loser's side of top 8) was knocked into the loser's side second round... and hasn't looked back since, stringing along an impressive number of wins to get in to the final 8.

-Some interesting character selections...
We knew we were going to see a lot of Nightmare, Natsu, Mitsu and Violas (to name a few), but... regular Patroklos? Three of the top 8 are regular P players, and Xeph used him in certain match-ups. Looks like that shin kick is making waves. Not to mention, there's even a Japanese Tira that sneaked in there... although his dominance in some matches would certainly mock my use of the word "sneaked."

-Word of the day: Execution
Not just in the sense of killing someone (metaphorically speaking, of course), but also technical execution. So many rounds and matches were won because of clutch, high-difficulty moments... and some were lost because of wasted opportunities. A lesson to newer players: Your ability to execute when needed is crucial on a stage like this.

-Asia VS the US of A!
Of the final 8 spots, the US holds 3 (2 in winner's) while Asian players hold the other 5 (Japan with 3, Korea with 1, and Singapore with 1). With Europe being such an SC hotspot, how surprised is everyone that this game seems to have quite a following in Asia?!?!

-So many killers...
If EVO has taught us anything so far, it's that there are a lot of skilled players in Calibur V, and any one of them can take any given event on any given day. For instance, despite France not making top 8, that doesn't mean that they weren't prepared or didn't play strongly: Keev and Kayane's matches were some of the hypest of the day. Expect more players to surface and this game to have a long shelf-life.

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That's all I have for right now. I was not able to catch every match, so if there's something you feel is worth noting as a headline, feel free to comment and I'll add it to the main post. Otherwise, fire away with any of your comments/opinions on how the hypest event of the year has turned out thus far! Oh, and don't forget to throw out some predictions!

http://evo.shoryuken.com
Full brackets: http://evo2012.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/index.html (click on the pool number to see that bracket's results)

 

Broken is a matter of perspective. I think a lot of shit's stupid good in this game, but I'm not calling for a ban on it.

 

I disagree... but only if it's something that can be started off of a simple backthrow. That's why I'm trying to clarify. If the throw itself requires a special kind of input outside of A+G or B+G, then you can easily implement a ban for it. If it's not, and all that's required is for you to grab an opponent BT and just keep throwing, then it's not so easy to ban. Sure, you can say, "don't do it infinite times," but that just makes you look like an idiot.

Just allow only one followup to it. Plenty fair and still quite honestly a broken mechanic lol.

 

The infinite should be easy enough to detect. One backthrow, that's OK. If you step forward and do another one (which you pretty much have to knowingly do instead of using a guaranteed launcher) then hit 'em with the banhammer. There's really no reason to do more than one backthrow unless it's "I'm going to infinite the other guy", as those backthrows do pitiful damage compared to the full combo you get. That's pretty simple.

To be honest, even with the infinite in play, Partisan could possibly have managed to pull through if it were Best of 5 instead of Best of 3. Just sayin'.

You bring up 2 important points, one I mentioned and one I didn't. The first has to do with the repetitive nature of the grab. The question that's interesting, to me at least, is will everyone agree that doing 1 grab + follow-up is OK but doing more than one is not? I could be interpreting Malice incorrectly, of course, but it sounds like he's opposed to the backthrow period since you can set it up with the CE.

Second, does everyone agree that it's OP? Despite my own opinion on it, I would like to think that Tokido (and other Viola's) are good enough that if it was extremely overpowered that it would have gotten a Viola a lot farther than it actually did.

Again, I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but this is the line of questioning you can expect if we start walking down that path.

 

Broken is a matter of perspective. I think a lot of shit's stupid good in this game, but I'm not calling for a ban on it.

I agree on that point, as well. From what I've heard the infinite is not so easy to do, maybe I am wrong, but as with all of Viola's stuff, there's always the chance of user error (or orb glitching).

Did Hilde get banned? I can't remember- She did not win EVO or Nationals, right?

The only way I've seen a backthrow being forced is Tokido's CE+infinite. In this case, it's a mixup between backthrow and 3B (right?), with Astaroth/Voldo/ZWEI having a small advantage. I have been backthrown from 44A BE combos, but IIRC I was doing something stupid at the time and shouldn't have been hit with 44A BE in the first place.

Anyway, this is kind of... soft ban scout's honor sort of thing, I should probably stop speaking on it.

 

The infinite should be easy enough to detect. One backthrow, that's OK. If you step forward and do another one (which you pretty much have to knowingly do instead of using a guaranteed launcher) then hit 'em with the banhammer. There's really no reason to do more than one backthrow unless it's "I'm going to infinite the other guy", as those backthrows do pitiful damage compared to the full combo you get. That's pretty simple.

To be honest, even with the infinite in play, Partisan could possibly have managed to pull through if it were Best of 5 instead of Best of 3. Just sayin'.

I agree the infinite needs to be patched out. One BT Throw is all that should happen. I don't want a move banned because it's annoying.

 

You bring up 2 important points, one I mentioned and one I didn't. The first has to do with the repetitive nature of the grab. The question that's interesting, to me at least, is will everyone agree that doing 1 grab + follow-up is OK but doing more than one is not? I could be interpreting Malice incorrectly, of course, but it sounds like he's opposed to the backthrow period since you can set it up with the CE.

Second, does everyone agree that it's OP? Despite my own opinion on it, I would like to think that Tokido (and other Viola's) are good enough that if it was extremely overpowered that it would have gotten a Viola a lot farther than it actually did.

Again, I'm just playing Devil's advocate, but this is the line of questioning you can expect if we start walking down that path.

Well it is an infinite from a CE, of course it is overpowered and broken. I mean it could potentially cost you an entire round. So what the Viola players did not make top 8, a great player got knocked out of the tournament by it. The infinite itself has to go, there is no doubt about it. I personally think that getting a BT into launcher off of a CE is a little too powerful, but I am totally good with it because it is not a glitch and does not cost you an entire round(And I may just not be good enough to predict when the CE will come out, who knows).

 

Well it is an infinite from a CE, of course it is overpowered and broken. I mean it could potentially cost you an entire round. So what the Viola players did not make top 8, a great player got knocked out of the tournament by it. The infinite itself has to go, there is no doubt about it. I personally think that getting a BT into launcher off of a CE is a little too powerful, but I am totally good with it because it is not a glitch and does not cost you an entire round(And I may just not be good enough to predict when the CE will come out, who knows).

This is where the complexity of a ban shows itself. Trying to regulate this mechanic based on such a philosophy is SO hard to do, and not everyone is going to agree with it because, like LP said, what's "broken and OP" will change based on perspective.

 

some of you guys are still on the defensive about it, not sure why, because nothing else in this game cant even come remotely close in comparison to a certain death(however its performed)win... this is how i see it and many others i'm sure...

Viola DOESN'T need a crazy infinite on top of what she has to be tourney viable and to win a tourney at that, its all the players ability at that point...however, when you have something that leads to CERTAIN death do to time out chip or being slowly pushed to/near the ring edge for free RO win...where is the balance in that?

Nobody has found anything remotely close to a throw infinite with any other character in this game that can be accessed from anything they have compared to Viola... now so its known, i just finished testing the infinite from just her CE alone and was able(only after 3-4 tries) on the 3rd-4th try i got 16 reps of the throw in a row...now i'm gonna compare that to the difficulty of Hilde's SC5 pseudo (maybe infinite??) c2B combo, and it took me a VERY long time just to get down 3 reps of that if i was lucky.

Viola has a TON of great tools and doesn't need an infinite to go along with them, i honestly don't have any problems with how much damage she can do or how she plays(outside of the infinite) but what she has along with the infinite is WAY too much for any character to have because other characters can do the same if not more damage(but those are usually at/near walls) yet do not have infinite throws to everyone's knowledge as of now where as she can do her infinite anywhere on any stage and do with you as she pleases... sorry, there is no balance in that whatsoever, no chance at winning, only to HOPE your opponent drops (from my testing) easy infinite...why does it feel like this is how things happened with SC4 Hilde doom combo, and everyone that used her in tourney's was all salty/butt hurt about her being banned?

Anyways, i don't want to see her banned at all, only the infinite... so anyone that thinks that is what i'm thinking for her being banned... well then you misconstrue me...so whoever you are, please get off your high horse before it knocks you off all on its own...im not out to hurt anyone's personal feelings about this, but seriously you have to draw a line somewhere and look at the facts.

 

Xiang to answer your question, yes the back grab is just a normal A_B+G. And the actual infinite is easy as fuck to do. On my first try ever about 20 minutes ago I got the grab 26 times in a row.

Look I don't know what the issues are. It's very simple, of course her back grab won't be banned but following it up with another should be. Let her get her little launch combo afterwards for 60 some damage and let that be the end to it.

It's common fucking sense people. Let's not make this bigger than it really is. In this case it's pretty much clear cut what is the right/fair thing to do. We don't need a rehash of the SC4 days where people were arguing for the sake of arguing. Feelings got hurt, shit got personal and it really did just make people leave over some dumb shit. We're struggling to keep this game alive much less revitalizing it after a great Evo showing. So let's nip this shit in the bud and move on.

 

I don't think you should mention the character itself when discussing overpowered; whenever I see someone talk about all the supposed tools Viola has, I assume the don't know jackshit about either the character or the game.

 

That's good info. I would have tested real quick, but I'm not at home. :/

lol, I don't think this is one of those things where people's feelings are going to get hurt, and I really think it's good discussion for one simple reason: I've seen gaming communities destroyed because bans were thrown around like they were on a dollar menu. My main concern is making sure that any such ban is thought out properly before any such step is taken.

 

It's common fucking sense people. Let's not make this bigger than it really is. In this case it's pretty much clear cut what is the right/fair thing to do. We don't need a rehash of the SC4 days where people were arguing for the sake of arguing. Feelings got hurt, shit got personal and it really did just make people leave over some dumb shit. We're struggling to keep this game alive much less revitalizing it after a great Evo showing. So let's nip this shit in the bud and move on.

NO, MUST DEFEND STUPID DESIGN WITH OVERLY COMPLEX PERSPECTIVE BASED ON WEIRD SCENARIO MOST PEOPLE DON’T CARE ABOUT.

 

That's good info. I would have tested real quick, but I'm not at home. :/

lol, I don't think this is one of those things where people's feelings are going to get hurt, and I really think it's good discussion for one simple reason: I've seen gaming communities destroyed because bans were thrown around like they were on a dollar menu. My main concern is making sure that any such ban is thought out properly before any such step is taken.

I can appreciate that. And mind you I'm not for banning a lot of things. But trust me when I say, feelings will get hurt. Because people won't be keeping things on topic/in perspective. For some reason people see these topics as a challenge or a trolling opportunity and shit gets out of hand real quick. We need to jump on that as quick as possible and be proactive so things don't get out of hand. As a great man once said, "fuck the bullshit, play Calibur". If only these people here could live by that.

 

CASE IN POINT,

I USED SOPHITIA IN SC4. IF ANYONE THOUGHT HER HALF LIFE TAS B COMBO SHOULD’VE BEEN BANNED, I WOULD’VE SHOWN SUPPORT. IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE TO ACT LIKE YOU’RE BETTER THAN SOMEONE WHEN YOU WIN WITH BULLSHIT.

BUT OHHH NO, WE GOTTA ALLOW EVERYTHING NO MATTER HOW EXTREMELY RETARDED IT IS, JUST TO FOLLOW SOME MISPLACED SENSE OF MORALITY.

 

I don't think you should mention the character itself when discussing overpowered

See I agree, and I also don't think anyone should bring this topic up when the topic right now is whether this one infinite should be banned. Things can go all sorts of ways and the point will be lost. These are two separate issues that need to be addressed in their own way. Do I think Viola is strong? Yes. Do I think she needs to be nerfed? I can't say. Because as you stated, I don't know enough about her really to say that one way or another. Does her infinite that has no place in this game need to be banned? Yes I believe so for the greater good of the community.

 

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I don't care about the infinite either way because I don't use it an I'm too busy waging war against Mits to care about other broken...of course..that's what I would have said if you guys didn't hurt my feelings and make me leave the community forever! =(

 

edit: nvm, not worth the headache.

 

I can appreciate that. And mind you I'm not for banning a lot of things. But trust me when I say, feelings will get hurt. Because people won't be keeping things on topic/in perspective. For some reason people see these topics as a challenge or a trolling opportunity and shit gets out of hand real quick. We need to jump on that as quick as possible and be proactive so things don't get out of hand. As a great man once said, "fuck the bullshit, play Calibur". If only these people here could live by that.

*shrug* It is what it is, I suppose. That's what mods are for, though, right? To keep shit under control? :)

Also, I blame LP for any and all salt in this thread. J sayin'.

 

evo banned t5.0 steve infinite in 2006, im sure this is easier to ban.

lol sc5

 

I thought Shining Decopon won?