EVO Update: Top 8

With the rest of the mods enjoying the nice, cool Vegas casino weather, I felt it was appropriate to update everyone with how yesterday's matches went if for whatever reason you're having trouble (like I initially was) finding the results/brackets, or maybe you're just new to the scene and not quite sure where to go for information.

With a full day off today (Saturday) before they finish out top 8 (Sunday), you gotta keep yourself occupied somehow, right? If you haven't been paying attention to the biggest and hypest tournament in the world, you'll be in for some surprises

Top 8

Winners:
Xephukai (USA) - Asta (also, Patroklos)
Something-Unique (USA) - Pyrrha
Shen Chan (SG) - Cervantes
CRNA|Ruka (JAP) - Patroklos

Losers:
Kura (KOR) - Patroklos
Woahhzz (USA) - Alpha Patroklos
Shining Decapon (JAP) - Tira
Kamaage (JAP) - Mitsurugi

TOP 8 STARTS AT 10 AM PST. DON'T MISS IT!!!!!


HEADLINES:
-France out!
In a surprising turn of events, both Keev and Kayane lost some tough (extremely hype) matches. Keev now has himself an official EVO nemesis having both losses come from the same player. [NOTE: The EVO bracket is incorrect for the Keev/Kura match; Keev did NOT win that match.]

-International players sans France having a strong performance!
If you were watching the stream and listening to the commentary, you probably noticed that even players like Bibulus were taken aback by the performance of foreign players not normally known for their SC dominance, such as the Singaporeans.

-MAJOR comebacks!
Although this is certainly true for many specific matches (there were SO many close matches to even begin to list), there were some players that have straight-up faced the gauntlet in terms of their bracket. Kamaage (who you'll notice is in the loser's side of top 8) was knocked into the loser's side second round... and hasn't looked back since, stringing along an impressive number of wins to get in to the final 8.

-Some interesting character selections...
We knew we were going to see a lot of Nightmare, Natsu, Mitsu and Violas (to name a few), but... regular Patroklos? Three of the top 8 are regular P players, and Xeph used him in certain match-ups. Looks like that shin kick is making waves. Not to mention, there's even a Japanese Tira that sneaked in there... although his dominance in some matches would certainly mock my use of the word "sneaked."

-Word of the day: Execution
Not just in the sense of killing someone (metaphorically speaking, of course), but also technical execution. So many rounds and matches were won because of clutch, high-difficulty moments... and some were lost because of wasted opportunities. A lesson to newer players: Your ability to execute when needed is crucial on a stage like this.

-Asia VS the US of A!
Of the final 8 spots, the US holds 3 (2 in winner's) while Asian players hold the other 5 (Japan with 3, Korea with 1, and Singapore with 1). With Europe being such an SC hotspot, how surprised is everyone that this game seems to have quite a following in Asia?!?!

-So many killers...
If EVO has taught us anything so far, it's that there are a lot of skilled players in Calibur V, and any one of them can take any given event on any given day. For instance, despite France not making top 8, that doesn't mean that they weren't prepared or didn't play strongly: Keev and Kayane's matches were some of the hypest of the day. Expect more players to surface and this game to have a long shelf-life.

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That's all I have for right now. I was not able to catch every match, so if there's something you feel is worth noting as a headline, feel free to comment and I'll add it to the main post. Otherwise, fire away with any of your comments/opinions on how the hypest event of the year has turned out thus far! Oh, and don't forget to throw out some predictions!

http://evo.shoryuken.com
Full brackets: http://evo2012.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/index.html (click on the pool number to see that bracket's results)

 

I understand the concern, but as an organizer, how exactly do you ban this? Do you say anything past one grab repetition constitutes a ban? If someone does that, what are the consequences? Round loss? Match loss? Set loss? DQ?

I want to be clear: I'm not saying I like the infinite or that I think it's fair, yadda yadda yadda, but there are tough questions to answer, and when you already have differing interpretations on rules and how the game should be played, it's hard to advocate for cohesion unless everyone agrees on an exact set of stipulations... which has notoriously been difficult.

 

I understand the concern, but as an organizer, how exactly do you ban this? Do you say anything past one grab repetition constitutes a ban? If someone does that, what are the consequences? Round loss? Match loss? Set loss? DQ?

All stipulations should be discussed with community members/leaders. If it were up to just me, I would've made the restrictions public before EVO. However, I am no leader of this community- and make no rules involving what's legit via tournament play. However, agreements can be made and opinion's of members who have credentials (Actually competes) should be acknowledged.

I want to be clear: I'm not saying I like the infinite or that I think it's fair, yadda yadda yadda, but there are tough questions to answer, and when you already have differing interpretations on rules and how the game should be played, it's hard to advocate for cohesion unless everyone agrees on an exact set of stipulations... which has notoriously been difficult.

Yes, they are difficult questions to answer. Ignoring the problem should not be the answer, though. Agreements may be hard to accomplish, but it's what must be done. As I mentioned in my previous paragraph; people who this infinite directly effect, should step up and add input. Leaders in this community will then have to do the hard decision, and pushing these rulles to be set in stone. This is one reason why I like Jaxel; he has taken the title of "community leader" and isn't afraid to set shit in stone and avoid the pussy-footing.

I may sound like an ass; but your input is close to invalid if you're not going out and competing. (edit: statement not directed to you, Xiang. Directed to the general audience.)

 

After the video i recorded, it should be pretty clear why that infinite needs to be banned, and it will be. I would be furious if i was eliminated from the tournament due to that nonsense.

 

lol, thanks for that edit, I was about to do my best Stella Got Her Groove Back, "say what, bitch?"

I completely agree it shouldn't be ignored, but I would much rather see a push to have them remove it from the game in a patch as opposed to banning it in tourny play.

 

Of course it should be patched out, but how long will it take before we see another patch, especially when there will be no more free patches for this game? Can't sit around waiting for the patch fairy while this nonsense is still legal.

 

I completely agree it shouldn't be ignored, but I would much rather see a push to have them remove it from the game in a patch as opposed to banning it in tourny play.

^THIS

But Im skeptical rather Namco is even doing another patch. They got thier hands full with all their money making games now. I dont even think they think about us anymore *snif*

 

There's a patch fairy?! Yeah, I'd like, uh, more tracking on 66B, 3A to be safe, and some chicken wings.

 

There's a patch fairy?! Yeah, I'd like, uh, more tracking on 66B, 3A to be safe, and some chicken wings.

Chickenwing lives in texas you dummy

 

Of course it should be patched out, but how long will it take before we see another patch, especially when there will be no more free patches for this game? Can't sit around waiting for the patch fairy while this nonsense is still legal.

Fair enough, but let me play Devil's advocate for a moment (just so I can be a douche for a bit) and go back to something I said earlier:

One repetition of the back grab guarantees a follow-up, right? Not just another grab, but any hit? So, would Viola back-grabs in general be banned, or would you ban anything after a certain amount?

 

On this infinite matter, this is what i have to say...

1. regardless of meter stock she can kill you with the throw from BT(ToD)
2. if the round clock and any life gauge lead is in her favor(with or without meter) can kill you/RO...(ToD)
3. Viola with only half stock(could be 1 stock though) of meter with her BE leads to the BT throw infinite and the first 2 things i mentioned(ToD)....

the whole idea needs to be erased from SC5 existence, she also has ToD combos WITHOUT the BT throw infinite with just a lil' practice for the sequences, no real true player/ game skill required(only meter and a few minutes here in there in training mode)... she is too much of a "walk in the park" type character to be honest, so you are forced to attempt at a counter pick vs her if you don't already use said character(s)...she would still be a viable character to use without all this extra crap.

Oh, and lets not forget it works on 97% of the character roster, which means only 3% of the roster can escape the throw infinite, Asta/Voldo/ZWEI....broken?...nah, why would anyone think that?!... face

 

It's just a normal backthrow to start the sequence, right? There's nothing special about the input, right?

 

hmm, i don't know if that is scepticism or sarcasm i detect from you xiang, so my apologies if you really don't know and want to know(but something tells me you may very well know)...the fact is, i don't use Viola so maybe my first mention in my last paragraph could be off so again, my apologies... so i don't exactly know "how" its performed... regardless; if it calls for something "special" to do it or not but with some practice, it can be performed by anyone, that's a fact... i didn't use Hilde in SC4 either, but she as a character was completely banned because of her ToD's and her ToD's needed charges which i guess can be noted as "special" and needed a certain "timing" to them as well... so.

Edit: overall the fact/point is it exists, just as Hilde's charge ToD's did, so if its sarcasm on your part, your making yourself sound like your defending something that has no right/ belongs being there in the first place, and this is what a great deal of the existing tourney players see it has...i am a competitor in this game even though i cannot afford to make all these majors like others can, that doesn't make me a non-competitor, just means i am limited on cash, and for the record i have attended many tourney's in the past offline locally and out of state... has Project Souls clarified at all if it was intended to be in the game? or if its a glitch?

 

I was under the presumption that it was a normal backthrow, which is why I was asking. (I don't play Viola.) If it's not, and it requires a special input, then a ban is really easy since the player has to intentionally do that set of inputs to get the infinite to occur, and my point is mostly moot.

If not, and it's just a normal backthrow, things get really sticky. It's a pretty hardcore nerf to ban her backthrow outright, so that's probably not in the cards. If you ban anything after the first occurrence of the grab, you'd pretty much have to allow at least one type of follow-up because trying to reset positions or something is extremely hard (and annoying) to regulate mid-match. Inevitably, you're going to get players that will cry "hey, he went too far with that...!"

Personally, I don't like it and would like to see it gone, but I see it as something along the lines of a RO, and if you try to ban it or regulate it I think you're stepping into some really murky water that's going to result in some controversial outcomes. Ultimately, whatever the community decides is what will be, and I'll adhere to that.

Again, though, if it's a special input, intentions can't really be hidden in such a case, so this argument would be moot.

 

Just allow ONE followup after the backthrow. That way the chip/RO doesn't become a problem and the Viola player can still get free pressure off of it(or a free combo, I havent had it happen to me yet. Did not see the Partisan match either, but it should definitely be banned in some way).

 

I was under the presumption that it was a normal backthrow, which is why I was asking. (I don't play Viola.) If it's not, and it requires a special input, then a ban is really easy since the player has to intentionally do that set of inputs to get the infinite to occur, and my point is mostly moot.

If not, and it's just a normal backthrow, things get really sticky. It's a pretty hardcore nerf to ban her backthrow outright, so that's probably not in the cards. If you ban anything after the first occurrence of the grab, you'd pretty much have to allow at least one type of follow-up because trying to reset positions or something is extremely hard (and annoying) to regulate mid-match. Inevitably, you're going to get players that will cry "hey, he went too far with that...!"

Personally, I don't like it and would like to see it gone, but I see it as something along the lines of a RO, and if you try to ban it or regulate it I think you're stepping into some really murky water that's going to result in some controversial outcomes. Ultimately, whatever the community decides is what will be, and I'll adhere to that.

Again, though, if it's a special input, intentions can't really be hidden in such a case, so this argument would be moot.

We're just talking about her infinite which you have to be deliberate in doing. I also don't see it along the lines of a ring out. At least with a ring out, you have to be setup for it. Tokido was able to just start the round using a CE, and do the infinite for the win, eliminating Partisan from EVO in the process using only 3 reps to get him to the ring edge for the kill. That's silly.

 

By "deliberate" do you mean you have to do a special version of the grab, or do mean just the repetitive nature of the infinite?

 

You can just CE and walk around your opponent since they're stuck in place to do the back throw/infinite.

 

lol why is this still going on? it's an infinite...and it's practical therefore it should be banned no questions asked.....

 

lol why is this still going on? it's an infinite...and it's practical therefore it should be banned no questions asked.....

I disagree... but only if it's something that can be started off of a simple backthrow. That's why I'm trying to clarify. If the throw itself requires a special kind of input outside of A+G or B+G, then you can easily implement a ban for it. If it's not, and all that's required is for you to grab an opponent BT and just keep throwing, then it's not so easy to ban. Sure, you can say, "don't do it infinite times," but that just makes you look like an idiot.

 

The infinite should be easy enough to detect. One backthrow, that's OK. If you step forward and do another one (which you pretty much have to knowingly do instead of using a guaranteed launcher) then hit 'em with the banhammer. There's really no reason to do more than one backthrow unless it's "I'm going to infinite the other guy", as those backthrows do pitiful damage compared to the full combo you get. That's pretty simple.

To be honest, even with the infinite in play, Partisan could possibly have managed to pull through if it were Best of 5 instead of Best of 3. Just sayin'.