Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
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Rekano
:O
It seems most characters don't have low offensive holds anymore. Which makes me question Brad's lying crouch throws. Namely how useful they still be? The only situation I can think of is if you catch them trying to low counter as a "GOT YA, BITCH!". Most will low strike, low throw or mid attack to interrupt Brad...
I'm still trying to incorporate handstand stances into my game, namely...for anything...that bitchin Air throw!
Also liking Kasumi, my original main. Too bad I really don't have anything interesting to say about her :/, its that same ol song and dance. Speed harassment. I may need to give Mila another look. Dunno why I didn't notice it before but she does have the Leon "Love Tackle"...
Shout outs to Bass, Tina, Ayane, and Sarah for other characters I find interesting and want to mess with more.
I'm still trying to incorporate handstand stances into my game, namely...for anything...that bitchin Air throw!
Also liking Kasumi, my original main. Too bad I really don't have anything interesting to say about her :/, its that same ol song and dance. Speed harassment. I may need to give Mila another look. Dunno why I didn't notice it before but she does have the Leon "Love Tackle"...
Shout outs to Bass, Tina, Ayane, and Sarah for other characters I find interesting and want to mess with more.
Dr_Tom
[09] Warrior
Don't let the word "nerf" distort your perception of Helena. She's not the monster she was in DoA4, but she's still usable.
As for the back dashing, I'm thinking I may pick up Mila just so I can make use of it. I was playing around with her online last night and she's pretty fun.
TheCursedImage
[12] Conqueror
I don't know where all this Helena nerf talk came from either. Ive been fucking online up with her.
And Akira is a monster! I need to learn to deal with him.
MorrowsWings
[13] Hero
TheCursedImage
[12] Conqueror
She's not the monster she used to be, but when you put the work in, she's still really good.
Dr_Tom
[09] Warrior
She has been nerfed. She's slightly slower, more unsafe, her P+K doesn't crush as many mids as it used to(still a monster for crushing highs though) and her damage output took a hit too. But like I said, she's still usable. She's a former top tier character made mid tier. At least those are my thoughts right now, I still think it's to early to say anything for sure. All I know is I love Helena in this game, her CB game is looking pretty good I think.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
I've noticed a bit of a trend. It seems like all the grapple/hold based characters (i.e Bass, Tina and Bayman) have been noticeably buffed. Bass and Tina seem really good now especially with most people's counterholds being nerfed now. From what I've seen of Helena, even with her nerfs, she still seems very effective.
On a different note, is it me or can Rig be a bit of a cheapass? His strategy always seems to be to just mash out random kicks as much as possible.
On a different note, is it me or can Rig be a bit of a cheapass? His strategy always seems to be to just mash out random kicks as much as possible.
BlackDragon37
[12] Conqueror
GUUUUUUUUUD!
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
I just bought the game :)
0VincentRayne0
Faith
i don't know what this talk about Lisa being nerfed and Helena being nerfed. Lisa's super predictable 1K now knocks down on hit so it's not stupid easy to counter anymore. but i would say she's nerfed. She has to be respected more and plus her throws do much more damage than they used to.
Helena's hit areas and stuns are different as well. that 66KPP that used to always be punished if finished? that first punch now stuns and makes that second punch a much easier hit. i know that the low is expected to be countered now but none the less that's a buff.
Kokoro is a lot differently in terms of what you can do with her. her stuns are different and her launchers are slightly different in their properties. that 2H+P,P or even that PP2KP is much harder to land as a combo finisher now. it takes some getting used to her 6P+K that used to just be 66K (i think). her 66P+K is much different and is a much more useful tool do to her stance follow ups and even just the threat of it. on a side note i believe Kokoro's Critical Burst move is one of the best in the game mainly because it's one of the fastest. the only thing about it is that it is a beginning of a combo so if you accidentally press 6P after a Critical Burst then you just lost a lot of free damage.
Lei fang i think got buffed in the since that the game mechanics buffed her. Lei fangs harder combos in DOA4 are now very easy to do in DOA5 just because of the mid air juggle physics. that PP6PK that used to only land in tag or off a counter hi launch now hits with ease. I was sad that her 3P+K (ie. attack where she uses her back) has been nerfed. It no longer knocks away anymore. that used to be a good move used in the end of some combos to knock back and allow for several open options. and with the was that the rising kick speed has been raised, the move would have been a useful tool.
Jahn Lee is still cool and has been buffed significantly. I personally think it wasn't needed but he now has guaranteed follow ups off of his mixup tools. so they aren't mixups anymore. they are just setups now. his mid punch counter has many guaranteed followup options. his dragon gunner is even guaranteed. he has a stance that is damn good. he is a pretty big threat and that Dragon Kick of his is even more dangerous in this game than in DOA4. The start up frames on it are much quicker than DOA4 so it makes it harder to duck it on reaction.
Mila is pretty good. I don't know why people call her beginner friendly. She can very easily be shut down if people don't understand or know what they're doing. She can't be picked up and played. if that's done then just one-two punches and kicks are going to be thrown out. she takes some practice. anyway back to strategic analysis. Mila has only one good gap closer which is her 3H+K. her 66K has really short distance BUT it's a guard break move BUT it leaves her back turned and Mila really has no good back turned options besides her low sweep. by the time you turn around after a guard break the guard break animation is done and you both are back at neutral again. :P Mila's 66P is a high so that can be ducked, not to mention it's distance still doesn't out do many of the cast. Mila's best tools are her attacks-to-grapple options. like 7PT and 4H+KT. they do light hits and if the opponent guesses that more attacks are coming and guard the grapple is guaranteed unless ducked or low countered. her 66T is pretty good considering it ducks all highs and is a catch grab. her Critical Burst game is meh mainly do to the fact that her CB move is slow. but if it does happen then she can get some easy damage.
Pai Chan is difficult to use effectively because of her low damage output on her quicker moves, her throws have low damage output, and her counters have little to no damage output and must have follow ups to achieve any type of damage. (this means you will be in training mode for a while). Her stances are pretty useful because they involve stepping, evasiveness, and spacing. also her 66H+K, 2P+K(T) is really cool to see. especially because if the first hit lands the rest is guaranteed and can only be stopped by a mid punch counter. so i think the skill ceiling on Pai is higher than others just because of the sheer knowledge you have to have of the character for her to be fully effective.
and one more thing i thought should be pointed out for this game.
HIGHS ARE THE NEW MIDS.
I see a ton of standard moves that used to be mids and are now highs. Kasumi's PPPP are all highs now. they used to be all mids. i've found myself countering a lot more highs then mids in this game where the opposite was true in previous DOA installments. but this is just an opinion.
Helena's hit areas and stuns are different as well. that 66KPP that used to always be punished if finished? that first punch now stuns and makes that second punch a much easier hit. i know that the low is expected to be countered now but none the less that's a buff.
Kokoro is a lot differently in terms of what you can do with her. her stuns are different and her launchers are slightly different in their properties. that 2H+P,P or even that PP2KP is much harder to land as a combo finisher now. it takes some getting used to her 6P+K that used to just be 66K (i think). her 66P+K is much different and is a much more useful tool do to her stance follow ups and even just the threat of it. on a side note i believe Kokoro's Critical Burst move is one of the best in the game mainly because it's one of the fastest. the only thing about it is that it is a beginning of a combo so if you accidentally press 6P after a Critical Burst then you just lost a lot of free damage.
Lei fang i think got buffed in the since that the game mechanics buffed her. Lei fangs harder combos in DOA4 are now very easy to do in DOA5 just because of the mid air juggle physics. that PP6PK that used to only land in tag or off a counter hi launch now hits with ease. I was sad that her 3P+K (ie. attack where she uses her back) has been nerfed. It no longer knocks away anymore. that used to be a good move used in the end of some combos to knock back and allow for several open options. and with the was that the rising kick speed has been raised, the move would have been a useful tool.
Jahn Lee is still cool and has been buffed significantly. I personally think it wasn't needed but he now has guaranteed follow ups off of his mixup tools. so they aren't mixups anymore. they are just setups now. his mid punch counter has many guaranteed followup options. his dragon gunner is even guaranteed. he has a stance that is damn good. he is a pretty big threat and that Dragon Kick of his is even more dangerous in this game than in DOA4. The start up frames on it are much quicker than DOA4 so it makes it harder to duck it on reaction.
Mila is pretty good. I don't know why people call her beginner friendly. She can very easily be shut down if people don't understand or know what they're doing. She can't be picked up and played. if that's done then just one-two punches and kicks are going to be thrown out. she takes some practice. anyway back to strategic analysis. Mila has only one good gap closer which is her 3H+K. her 66K has really short distance BUT it's a guard break move BUT it leaves her back turned and Mila really has no good back turned options besides her low sweep. by the time you turn around after a guard break the guard break animation is done and you both are back at neutral again. :P Mila's 66P is a high so that can be ducked, not to mention it's distance still doesn't out do many of the cast. Mila's best tools are her attacks-to-grapple options. like 7PT and 4H+KT. they do light hits and if the opponent guesses that more attacks are coming and guard the grapple is guaranteed unless ducked or low countered. her 66T is pretty good considering it ducks all highs and is a catch grab. her Critical Burst game is meh mainly do to the fact that her CB move is slow. but if it does happen then she can get some easy damage.
Pai Chan is difficult to use effectively because of her low damage output on her quicker moves, her throws have low damage output, and her counters have little to no damage output and must have follow ups to achieve any type of damage. (this means you will be in training mode for a while). Her stances are pretty useful because they involve stepping, evasiveness, and spacing. also her 66H+K, 2P+K(T) is really cool to see. especially because if the first hit lands the rest is guaranteed and can only be stopped by a mid punch counter. so i think the skill ceiling on Pai is higher than others just because of the sheer knowledge you have to have of the character for her to be fully effective.
and one more thing i thought should be pointed out for this game.
HIGHS ARE THE NEW MIDS.
I see a ton of standard moves that used to be mids and are now highs. Kasumi's PPPP are all highs now. they used to be all mids. i've found myself countering a lot more highs then mids in this game where the opposite was true in previous DOA installments. but this is just an opinion.
Windstar
[13] Hero
Based on what I've played with Rig, I find that he has very short critical hits/stuns to the point that getting a red stun is actually pretty tricky. He seems like his entire strategy is similar to Ayane in making characters try to attack him only to whiff or eat fast kicks. Rig gets a little trickier because of his mid kicks (of which he has fewer than most characters) require a different hold than typical holds. Rig, as far as I can tell, only has one natural launcher (33K) and the altitude is so low you can barely make use of it.
Basically, Rig's strategy is to get you to come at him and then tear you apart. And if you think that just blocking his kicks is going give you an advantage... well he's got tools for that too.
He has a really good whiff punisher (6H+K). His P6P and 4PP are really great. His P+KK is really strong, but his Bend Knee (BK) P is really slow and has terrible recovery. It puts the opponent in a sit-down stun, but I can't find anything to follow up with. His 2H+K has a better sit-down stun on counter hit.
Her 7P critical burst is 12 frames. For some perspective, the fastest move in the game is Eliot's 7P at 9 frames. All PPP... combos generally start at 10 frames. Basic 'punisher' zero-directional input throws are 5 frames.
After looking through some of the Kokoro videos I posted I noticed that players were using her 3K and 3K2P and PK2P moves. Back in DoA4 and even DoAD these moves were pretty cruddy. So I check them in training mode and... they're still pretty cruddy, but not that bad. 3K is still -3 on hit which makes it safe at a distance (its also her best reaching move). Her 2H+KK is +0 on hit, but lots of frame adv on counter/critical hit with the forced sit-down stun.
Kokoro's 7P also has an unlisted (she has a lot of unlisted moves, by the way, everyone does but Kokoro has the most), follow-up. The command is 7PKP, you can delay the P forever. But the entire string is mid-low-mid, so be careful.
6P on hit is -11 and 6PP is +4 on hit, but doesn't combo naturally. As far as I can tell, no one is able to counter 6PPP if it hits on counter, and it puts the opponent in red critical, allowing for an easy critical burst. Provided that then can't slow escape or hold out of it (I don't think they can).
Other unlisted moves include Kokoro's Sidestep P and 33P being the same exact move and they both have the same follow-ups. 4PK*T, 3P*T, PP*T, 2K*T, P2K*T, 9PP*T, among others.
Cricket
Playing since Pong.
[casual]*
Personally, I'm glad they gave the option to turn off the sweat and dirt effects. I prefer my ridiculously fake fighting game characters in a ridiculously fake world ridiculously fake... and clean.
[/casual]
*I enjoy the discussion of both fluffy casual and meaty competitive elements of a game, but recognize how they can sometimes muck things up when mixed together. As this thread contains both, I just wanted to keep my comment clearly separate from the developing competitive discussion as a courtesy. Please carry on.
Personally, I'm glad they gave the option to turn off the sweat and dirt effects. I prefer my ridiculously fake fighting game characters in a ridiculously fake world ridiculously fake... and clean.
[/casual]
*I enjoy the discussion of both fluffy casual and meaty competitive elements of a game, but recognize how they can sometimes muck things up when mixed together. As this thread contains both, I just wanted to keep my comment clearly separate from the developing competitive discussion as a courtesy. Please carry on.
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Oh my God you can put "Scrub" as your title. This cracked me up.
Ninjaguy446
[14] Master
So, I'm thinking of buying this game but I'm not sure. I have to admit, it looks reeeeeally cool with all the stage effects and the character models look great too. If I did get this I'll most likely main Helena or Tina. Could anybody please explain to me what Helena or Tina's playstyle is like (offensive, defensive, technical)? Also, is there a DOA equivalent to Tekkenzaibatsu and 8WR? Thanks in advance. :)
smartypants9567
[09] Warrior
Hello, some of you may know me, some you may not, but this game looks super fun. SC is the only game is I play. If I'm not on SC, I'm on Netflix, but yea, this game looks fun. So, is there like a notation that they use to measure moves like they do in SC? Are there any websites that I could use to learn more about the game, because I'm buying it. It's official. I am determined to buy this game, and I will.
Ghengis_John
[13] Hero
You have to look at the whole picture, not just the most optimistic projection of one half of one unreliable string. I don't think I need to go into a laundry list of specifics, she's slow, massively unsafe, doesn't have one automatic launcher, she's lost a few very good strings not the least of which is PP2KP, bokuho no longer ducks mids that hit low, P+K lost a lot of its evasion and (don't quote me on this) I'm also pretty sure she doesn't have an unblockable move in her repetoir. I have yet to check a forum, I am not the worlds best player but I have been playing Helena for a very long time and the nerfs are quite apparent. Maybe a forum will tell me how to adapt my style, but that will not make her risk reward ratios any better, nor undo the changes to move properties. Or maybe they will have even more terrible projections of doom and gloom than I currently do. I dunno. What I do know is that it's ridiculous to point to one stun and say she's not nerfed.
I don't know about Tina, but in my experience I say Helena is evasive with a good mixup game. She might be a bit more technical than some characters, with her back facing and bokuho stances and their associated shifts, but these things just add to her mixup potential. It's a little hard to get in with her now though. Sidestep k is good, avoids non tracking moves, moves you forward, sweeps low, shifts into bokuho automatically (I think). You can also use P+K to move under, in on and crush highs, though it's riskier than it used to be. The follow up is a ground-bounce causing overhead. If you don't want that hit the hold button after.
Reave
[13] Hero
Earlier my man tried the online out and Pai's head spun around on some exorcist shit.
Ninjaguy446
[14] Master
Thanks! I'm definitely going with Helena. She just seems so cool!