Missing character discussion

Thomas said:
Some how Pat acts like an idiot in SCV.
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smh. He's not an idiot. Just misinformed and naive. In the beginning, he wanted to stop at nothing to finding his mother's killer, and knew right away that Soul Edge had something to do with it. Pretty much it did.

But this caught on to Graf Dumas, and Dumas used that to his advantage at manipulating Patroklos into believing that anyone could be "malfested".

If I knew nothing about the malfested, I would be suspicious about everyone too.

OutCast said:
Cass seemed likeable imo. Pat was just a douche unjustly killing people.......
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Cassandra is just stubborn as hell. The only reasons people like her and not Patroklos is 1. Seniority/People on nostalgia's balls, 2. She's comedic relief, and 3. She has comedic attacks. Her CF pretty much made her likable by fans from the get go. Japanese fans, especially.
 
I don't know if this is true, but somebody told me Daishi wanted to put Cassandra in the game with a new weapon (I guess it was a Broadsword). Maybe something like Lightning in Final Fantasy XIII-2?
 
jtdam09 said:
smh. He's not an idiot. Just misinformed and naive. In beginning, he wanted to stop at nothing to finding his mother's killer, and knew right away that Soul Edge had something to do with it. Pretty much it did.

But this caught on to Graf Dumas, and Dumas used that to his advantage at manipulating Patroklos into believing that anyone could be "malfested".

If I knew nothing about the malfested, I would be suspicious about everyone too.
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Isn't it funny, they give a character shades of depth beyond GENERIC ANGST HERO, and people hate him. I think people don't *really* want story, deep down, they want manga.
 
jtdam09 said:
smh. He's not an idiot. Just misinformed and naive. In the beginning, he wanted to stop at nothing to finding his mother's killer, and knew right away that Soul Edge had something to do with it. Pretty much it did.

But this caught on to Graf Dumas, and Dumas used that to his advantage at manipulating Patroklos into believing that anyone could be "malfested".

If I knew nothing about the malfested, I would be suspicious about everyone too.
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This

To be the new protagonist, they gived him original approach (also as chara design, is waaay over herp derp bullshit like Zwei), actually is the first good guy that kills innocent peoples without have the excuse of being possessed by SE

They imho ruined it with Alpha Pat, the idea of him stop copying his mother (and stop being another S&S alexandra,lol) and take his own route was nice, the result way less: the combination of jap fight style with the costume VS mode variation turn him into very herp derp new japan-style stuff. With a Vergil wannabe touch.
Basic Pat fit well with classic SC design, Alpha seem more jumped out from some herp derp Guilty Gear or worse BlazeBlue (or worse insert xxx name of new jap 2D FG)

Anyway as chara design/concept basic Pat is hands down the best NEW character
Maybe not good as new addition like Zasa, Hilde and Setsuka back in the time, but just way better than Viola-Zwei(as chara design,as gameplay he's my 2nd main even if weak) and not a lazy marketing "younger version of" like all other new faces (btw Leixia and Pyrrah are at least well made)
 
Gatsu said:
Basic Pat fit well with classic SC design, Alpha seem more jumped out from some herp derp Guilty Gear or worse BlazeBlue (or worse insert xxx name of new jap 2D FG)
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That was one reason why I didn't like Alpha Patroklos, but the whole "European+Japanese" thing I would be contradicting over, because I like Setsuka's design, and she's basically the same idea as Alpha Patroklos. Overall, I like his moveset more than Setsuka's, even though he could use a move or two that she had.
of course I'm still disappointed over the lack of a Japanese geisha, but maybe next time...
 
Gatsu said:
This

To be the new protagonist, they gived him original approach (also as chara design, is waaay over herp derp bullshit like Zwei), actually is the first good guy that kills innocent peoples without have the excuse of being possessed by SE

They imho ruined it with Alpha Pat, the idea of him stop copying his mother (and stop being another S&S alexandra,lol) and take his own route was nice, the result way less: the combination of jap fight style with the costume VS mode variation turn him into very herp derp new japan-style stuff. With a Vergil wannabe touch.
Basic Pat fit well with classic SC design, Alpha seem more jumped out from some herp derp Guilty Gear or worse BlazeBlue (or worse insert xxx name of new jap 2D FG)

Anyway as chara design/concept basic Pat is hands down the best NEW character
Maybe not good as new addition like Zasa, Hilde and Setsuka back in the time, but just way better than Viola-Zwei(as chara design,as gameplay he's my 2nd main even if weak) and not a lazy marketing "younger version of" like all other new faces (btw Leixia and Pyrrah are at least well made)
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well i wouldnt say pat is the best new character Zwei and viola are also good but atleast he has a fun moveset and is no mimic .__.
 
jtdam09 said:
That was one reason why I didn't like Alpha Patroklos, but the whole "European+Japanese" thing I would be contradicting over, because I like Setsuka's design, and she's basically the same idea as Alpha Patroklos. Overall, I like his moveset more than Setsuka's, even though he could use a move or two that she had.
of course I'm still disappointed over the lack of a Japanese geisha, but maybe next time...
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Nah,it's not contradicting, i too like Setsuka and see Alpha as herp derp

Setsuka was original total new char, with great chara design that supported the jap fight style

Alpha is just the usual power up version of the main guy , with random nonsense recycle of Setsuka style and tweaked for worse wannabe cool design(ever talking about the VS mode version)

Wildr4ge said:
well i wouldnt say pat is the best new character Zwei and viola are also good but atleast he has a fun moveset and is no mimic .__.
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Zwei is my 2nd main, i like a lot his gameplay (even if he's weak and they never cared to boost him lol)

But i'm talking about chara design, and as chara design he's so herp derp ugly and poor to be probably in the top 5 of SC chara design fails. It just scream "marketing"
 
I hate play the i-was-studying-as illustrator-and-i-do-design-getting-money-for-it card, but sometimes is needed, lol

It's not ever about opinion... i mean, everybody can have his own opinion but like something does'nt automatically mean "good design". In fact ironically many ridicolous low chara design (yes Ragna from BZ,i'm looking at you) in FG world are considered "good" by the big audience.
On the other hand i've seen many times a design that impressed me as dude-that-do-it-for-work, when 999999 kids on teh internet spit shit about it

Is about understand the creative process behind a design
Chara design (well, quality one) is a complicated form of design, because it involve many factors
Like or not like in Pat there is good deep creative process, just to say some you can find
-Alexander (the Great) iconic figure
-Achilles ideal of perfect warrior/plastic pose (Pat have also same name of his only "student")
-Patroklos (Iliad) himself, because he still have a still young/need experience touch
-Mini-Heracles lol, with linx theme as a mini citation of Herc's nemea lion skin
-Ottoman janissary uniform (in 1p, but in the dropped 3p was even more evident)
-Cataphract that give another connection to the eurasian world, as sign of oriental touch (ottoman)
-the focus almost obsessive on the white colour, related to that "JUSTICE!!!" thing (also note the gold statue on his stage)
-the fact of have a military uniform, wich make him a -young- soldier more than a warrior. This reflect well his starting condition of being manipulated from Dumas: soldiers never fight for themselves, are tools used by powers above them
-the boring aura of "new hero" that make him play a role in a cast design logic
-soldier but still a special individual, arm stripe, medals and animal skin kinda give a higher grade look, captain or something. A young official. This mean less chess-piece? No, just a more relevant/useful one :D
-other things

And look, i'm making it simple, when i say "other things" is because list will go on

From here i may still end up not like it due personal tastes(personally i like it), but as dude that understand the creative process i've before all to admit that's a good chara design work

Then you have Zwei

-Herp look at me i'm badass derp bare muscle chest leather oufit chains robo-wolf pokemon demonic powah dark blackpurple color scheme to make fap kids that can't resist to some retard anti-hero in black

Sure, as defense one can point

-celtic wannabe sword decoration and tatoo
-moon motif as link to wherewolf
-hairs and eyebrows as link to wolf fur
-body proportions exagerated on purpose on neck/shoulder area, as link with wolf anatomy
-Pat hero, Zwei anti-hero. Linx and wolf. Cat and Dog basically. Perfect animal theme for nemesis (ever if friendly ones)
-Black work as opposite to Pat's white (but let's be clear,more than else is marketing)
-Zwei role in the story wich remind that wolf/dog aspect: the hunter look, the fact that he follow somebody (Sieg) order, the final perfect lone wolf style. Basically he's a wolf that do the dog job only because he want to
-aggressive wild attitude, growl voice and so on
-the fact that fight in team like wolves fight in pack helping each others (wolf is known for avoid 1vs1 even with weaker opponents, they are natural "team fighters")
-biker theme (lol i find it ridicolous but is in both 1p and 2p)

And?

And are all true, in fact Zwei (him, not what he wear or the ridicolous pokemon) is a good designed character with many applied ideas behind it.
But
His 1p total destroy all this touches... and in FG design 1p mean "official/canon"
Why do this? Because marketing explain that if you create a around 20 yo dude, and you give him wannabe badass biker antihero look, demonic powah and blackpurple leather outfit, the young audience will blowjob it.
Also there is marketing ride twilight banana, so RaphNight- AmyViola -Zwei being SC version of the vampire-bitch-wolf triangle :sadface.jpeg:
Even being far from great(but with nice lil touches) 2p kinda save Zwei, and obvious is the one hated by all, lol

Then you have Xiba that -even being teh usual newyoungversionof wich often result in shit- as design is VERY good, but ingame it end up look a gay asian peter pan orangehead bieber with annoying voice.
Here is a problem of translation to the 3D model, wich may be unintentional (example 3D dude tryed but resulted this) or intentional (modeller left free to change the style, or one more time just shit marketing get in again)
But is another story


I don't blame them (on the contrary,i consider them with the best ones), everybody worked even once in professional ($) art world at any level know that there is ever somebody over you that impose to tweak something -9 times on 10 for worse- because he think that it will sell better.
Or because is just his retard opinion, but retard or not he's your boss/who pay... and not only you must apply his idea, you know people will blame you for it :D

Like for all things, understand chara design is about knowledge
 
Gatsu said:
Basic Pat fit well with classic SC design, Alpha seem more jumped out from some herp derp Guilty Gear or worse BlazeBlue (or worse insert xxx name of new jap 2D FG)
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While I agree with all your points there is no need to to shit on BlazBlue and Guilty Gear.
 
Vigo said:
While I agree with all your points there is no need to to shit on BlazBlue and Guilty Gear.
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I think you misunderstand my position, i don't shit on GG/BZ. I consider them for what they are.
I consider them smart, if they can do money selling design to a certain audience with a way less deep creative process, good for them.
I consider horrible shit MK design, and even here... good for them.
I don't hate McDonald
I just don't want go to my favourite restaurant and see the dude drop a mc chiken on my table

As dude with knowledge to understand A or B quality in this specific sector, i've no problem with anybody... on the contrary wish the best for them
Even if blowjobbing audience is killing chara design, since internet make marketing guys know what the mass want and what the mass want get the advantage over skilled artists ideas.
In FG world as now only Ono (Capcom) with SF seem to be "free" to create (talking about chara design only eh), but is just because huge fan base and the legendary status of the series. So nobody force them to put Ragna or Zwei in.

All others have to be a lil bit bitch to sell themselves... accepted this, all depend wich kind of bitch they want be, if 20$ old street fatties with vintage diseases or high paid fashion model level ones
 
Wildr4ge said:
lets hope for a good sc VI :) the last thing we need is more stupid alexandras .___.!
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Woa woa...did you just called all Alexandra stupid??
How dare you? How could you? I hope you HAVE A LESS THAN PLEASANT DAY SIR. ;P
BTW I don't hate Patroklos I just think he have a to much chaotic personality, hee mother died like a hero and he father was ill, his aunt was no where. Even if he was desperate to find his sister he is to amorphous, not the human amorphous heart, but the borderline future Gloomy Pat\Jolly Pat.
 
MKHSpartan said:
Ok let me rephrase this for the Alexandra fans. We don't need any more SWORD AND BLOODY SHIELD characters. There see easy. Personally I think two are fine more than that pushes it though.
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Oh!! So you mean the old Alexandra characters are good enough and we don't need new Alexandra characters right? If it is I agree with that, but all the old Alexandra characters are dead or gone, and some how the gones are not back, that's why we need new Alexandra characters.
 
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