Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Windstar said:
In VF5, there's usually a way around that (doing a more damaging attack), but more importantly, 2Ps are actual lows in DOA5.
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that's the point. they are used to shut down offensive pressure. but there is an easy way around them. at least for Pai, she's zero on hit. so that means she's negative on block and can easily be punished. so it's a balanced move. (at least for Pai, but she's low tier anyway so that's not really a good thing for her.)
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
that's the point. they are used to shut down offensive pressure. but there is an easy way around them. at least for Pai, she's zero on hit. so that means she's negative on block and can easily be punished. so it's a balanced move. (at least for Pai, but she's low tier anyway so that's not really a good thing for her.)
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Yeah. I'm more annoyed at the repeated spam that players keep doing. I'll sit there watching them pop five 2Ps in a row and just feel annoyed that someone that's going to do something when I'm just waiting for them to finish. They piss me off enough I'll just low counter it (and I've gotten pretty good at Hi-Counter Holds).

Still, most of my matches boil down to the opponent running off strings, I'll counter/punish with 2H+KK, they eat the counter hit, go into trip stun, I 7K and launch them into the air and do an easy combo. Repeat this for about 7 or 8 times. Thinking that they've learned not to try and attack while in trip, I'll mix up a throw attempt, only to eat a counter hit string. I shrug it off, and we continue this silly game for 8 to 10 matches.

Eventually, with some players they'll start going into this ultra turtly "I'm-going-to-counter-everything-you-do" crap, which starts to annoy me, since they aren't really predicting and just randomly guessing. I punish all the stupid whiffing, and they still end up doing it. So occasionally I'll throw the match and give them something obvious they can counter and feel good about themselves. Then I'll just murder them in the next few rounds.

I've done periods where I do nothing but 2H+KK for entire rounds and matches and they eat counter hits for the entire match. I've done this before in Soul Calibur 5 too, and it just annoys and pisses me off where I'm hoping that the players actually learn not to do stupid things, but somehow, whether it be stubbornness or unfortunate brain damage, they don't learn. Its one thing to get punished for experimenting on certain setups, strategies or attacks, but here, they're not experimenting. They're just doing stupid things. After all's said and done... I occasionally get a message asking to be my friend. And rarely, get a compliment about my skills. Not once have I gotten hate mail yet.

Nowadays, I'm just taking it in stride and good humor. I'm not really trying to be ultra-competitive (at least, not in this game). So I'm having fun. Still, its annoying having to fight players that aren't very good or aren't learning. I'm not sure whether I should crush them, or go easy. If I'm too tough, they'll likely leave and I'll feel pretty unsatisfied and few number of games I've played so far. Honestly, I'm not really even that good and have even picked up some bad habits for solely trying to just counter their play. I'll run off gimmicks with other characters I have no idea how to play (Bass 1PP > ground throw pick up > 1PP > ad infinitum) and they'll just eat it. Though I've never actually spammed Jann Lee's Dragon Kick (though I did meet one player who did... unfortunate soul who continued to eat Lee's CH 1PP punishes afterwards.)

Still I'm having fun. I've got about 26 more titles to go and a 61% win rating now. Its a slog to get Alpha... I'm kinda curious to learn her and try her out online in a non-cheesy way.
 
Windstar said:
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I occasionally shake my head when I see how some other people play this game online, but they may not know better. DOA5 has a fantastic practise mode that actually doesn't teach you how to play the game. The story mode's objectives give you a sample of the various aspects and features of the combat system but goes over nothing fundamental. How is someone who plays DOA5 as their first fighting game supposed to know what Advantage & Disadvantage are? Spacing? Crush attacks? Guard break attacks? Mix-ups? etc.

The only way how someone would learn of these elements would be to A) Acquire a strategy guide B) Visit a relevant website such as FreeStepDodge C) Have someone, who knows the fundamentals, teach them D) Acquire a shitload of experience against players that hopefully have some understanding of fundamentals.

I try not to take Ranked seriously and just play for fun, while attempting to up my game through either Matchup knowledge or experience. As for me, when I play against someone that is of a lower skill than me, I focus on playing a spacing and punishment game as opposed to my usual rushdown. This way the opponent generally loses because I punished their mistakes as opposed to beating them into oblivion. I especially do this if I'm playing Lobby matches.
 
I'm pretty much playing a punish game, or a passive aggressive approach to combat.

And the game does teach the fundamentals in the story mode. The first thing you learn is how to block. I do agree that the game needs to have its move list give a few more details than it currently provides, and in general fighting games do need to provide a better visual approach to when one is on disadvantage. But things like spacing, mix-ups and more feel more like an area where self-discovery and simply playing the game are more of an experience to learning the game than simply through tutorials. Still I do agree that a lot more information needs to be provided and taught to players than what current tutorials in fighting games provide.

And while games like Blazblue and some others do provide some good tutorials, I think what they provide isn't enough. Blazblue gives a good deal of information in its tutorial system, but lacks on the character specific stuff and a tutorial with very specific information, nuances for each character. Instead, the game only provides an overview and a challenge mode for each character and I don't think that's enough.

DOA5 is the same way, yet I feel that I'm not doing anything remotely impressive or terribly difficult for lesser skilled players to learn with. Basic things like, actually blocking, should be something they should be doing after they get hit. Instead, its this Street Fighter 4 mentality of mashing out escapes or moves immediately upon being hit and its just a terrible thing to do.

I don't play ranked, myself. I don't feel like I'm good enough to play ranked yet.

I have 278 titles collected now... I wonder what would be the fastest way to pick up the remaining titles and unlock Alpha? I guess CB > PBs and Cliffhangers... maybe I'll cheat that by doing a two-player run.
 
Force_of_Nature said:
I occasionally shake my head when I see how some other people play this game online, but they may not know better. DOA5 has a fantastic practise mode that actually doesn't teach you how to play the game. The story mode's objectives give you a sample of the various aspects and features of the combat system but goes over nothing fundamental. How is someone who plays DOA5 as their first fighting game supposed to know what Advantage & Disadvantage are? Spacing? Crush attacks? Guard break attacks? Mix-ups? etc.

The only way how someone would learn of these elements would be to A) Acquire a strategy guide B) Visit a relevant website such as FreeStepDodge C) Have someone, who knows the fundamentals, teach them D) Acquire a shitload of experience against players that hopefully have some understanding of fundamentals.
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THIS. So much. Goodness... I picked up this game on Black Friday and I have no idea wtf I'm doing the training mode is so shitty. This is my first DOA game, so that makes it even worse on me.(and college finals isn't helping me to learn faster either. xD) I want to main Rig so if anyone knows any beginner's guides....that'd be great. I'm also trying to find websites , but mostly videos(visual learner here) that teach you the game, you know, since TRAINING MODE DOESN'T!
 
Sett said:
Story mode teaches you how to play the game with their challenges.
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Story mode goes over the different elements of DOA5's gameplay but I didn't really learn anything with relation to how to play the game properly. It's probably not helped by the CPU not really providing a challenge until the last few chapters. For instance, if you go from playing and completing Story Mode to playing online, you likely still won't know what you're doing and are likely to just throw stuff out frantically or play overly cautiously.

Training mode only helps if you already have an idea how the game is supposed to work and understand frame data. On the other hand, training mode is fantastic for advanced players though with its move details and many customizable options.
 
Force_of_Nature said:
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Well its good enough, most games even outside of fighting games let their players acquire their skill on experience alone. Hard core players are a strong minority as most players would just want to kick the ass of the person beside them or online in the way they sit fit. Tekken and SC5 just give you the basic combos and tells you to get on with it, I'm pretty sure SC5 doesn't even mention GI/JG once.
 
Sett said:
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Considering that the FGC is now being filled with people that have years upon years of experience (some even 10+ years!), it's becoming more and more intimidating for a newcomer to take up a fighting game such as SCV or DOA5 and it's also becoming more and more necessary for the developer to produce adequate training tutorials for newcomers. These people are at a multiple-year experience disadvantage. They need to be brought up to speed or they'll get discouraged. I cannot tell you how many times in SCV I've seen someone with a 90%+ offline win rate and a 10% online win rate.

For instance, SCV or DOA5 can include info with relation to sites such as 8WayRun or FreeStepDodge that can either reference them or make the gamers aware of them. With relation to SCV, the anemic instruction manual does mention GI & JG in terms of how to simply perform one.
 
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