Raphael Video Discussion

[Zanaken]

I honestly don't get thrown much. Throws are easy enough to guess.

Let's say it's a mirror match with Raph - Break B near walls or edges, also if you are mid-field but it will push you to a bad spot.

Break A mid-field, if an edge is to the opponent's right, or if a B grab is obvious as fuck.

Throw in some Yomi, and boom, you've hit 90% grab breaks. Characters like Astaroth especially. Just watch their meter and position.

If I have just been getting lucky, then it's one insane streak.

PS: If it's a noob, just break whatever their first grab was - Instant 90% /flex

 

[ChaosK]

I honestly don't get thrown much. Throws are easy enough to guess.

Let's say it's a mirror match with Raph - Break B near walls or edges, also if you are mid-field but it will push you to a bad spot.

Break A mid-field, if an edge is to the opponent's right, or if a B grab is obvious as fuck.

Throw in some Yomi, and boom, you've hit 90% grab breaks. Characters like Astaroth especially. Just watch their meter and position.

If I have just been getting lucky, then it's one insane streak.

PS: If it's a noob, just break whatever their first grab was - Instant 90% /flex

Then your opponents are just very uncreative. Of course if you expect them to break a specific throw, you go for the other one.

For example my opp is obviously expecting a B throw at walls, so i abuse A throws in that situation.

 

[kAb]

I honestly don't get thrown much. Throws are easy enough to guess.

Let's say it's a mirror match with Raph - Break B near walls or edges, also if you are mid-field but it will push you to a bad spot.

Break A mid-field, if an edge is to the opponent's right, or if a B grab is obvious as fuck.

Throw in some Yomi, and boom, you've hit 90% grab breaks. Characters like Astaroth especially. Just watch their meter and position.

If I have just been getting lucky, then it's one insane streak.

PS: If it's a noob, just break whatever their first grab was - Instant 90% /flex

You are incredibly naive

 

[Real_Bojack]

You are incredibly naive

Dude, I know I keep falling for it too but I've been trying to talk some sense into him for a few weeks now. It's not gonna happen. I doubt if you, me, Enk, DIME, Decopon, RTD, Kayane etc. all combined forces we'd be able to sway him.... her? Just let him be content to be the best guy at his flats or university and leave it at that.

Even if he's whack at Calibur he's proven to be a rather stout and effective troll.

 

[ChaosK]

Guys keep it civil please. If anything i would advice Zaneken to look for better opponents, because the current ones are obviously not challenging enough for him and let him get away with too much.

 

[Zanaken]

Guys keep it civil please. If anything i would advice Zaneken to look for better opponents, because the current ones are obviously not challenging enough for him and let him get away with too much.

I have some funsies to upload real soon. Opponents who.... "Challenge" me. I will spend my next day off sorting through it / getting more. Either way, I yearn to entertain, not amaze you with my mad sick 2A skills.

I have played with my offline Mitsu pal since SC4, he ducks pretty much every Prep K BE / Prep AB etc etc. I am very aware of how to play from different angles and using different styles.

Judge me on 4 videos, only 2 of which I count as "decent" till then. Also, if you think my writing style is an indication of my actual attitude, or how I act IRL, you are sorely mistaken. I like to have fun and discuss matters with a bit of tongue-and-cheek, but do not base your opinions on it.

Bojack, based on the 4 videos I uploaded, you seem to think you're better than me! Now THAT is mad whack, ya'll. As is listing yourself with great players as if you are on their level.

 

[Wyde]

We should try getting more mirrors in soon, Zanaken. I might be able to sort out a wired connection in the near future and see how much that improves our matches. =]

 

[Zanaken]

Sure thing, you are a good fight. Certainly a lot more patient than me. Shame the connection made 22B basically free to both of us! I have one game recorded where that's all we landed ^_^

 

[Real_Bojack]

Bojack, based on the 4 videos I uploaded, you seem to think you're better than me! Now THAT is mad whack, ya'll. As is listing yourself with great players as if you are on their level.

Umm, no. Lemme say my own words instead of you cramming them in my mouth. What I said did not imply that was equal to the others, I admit every where that I'm basically the ultra scrub. You haven't listened to me very well, didn't listen to kAb who is an excellent nationally known guy so odds are even if we did get the best and brightest Calibur players we couldn't sway you. This being said,

FragileTulip67 is my Live name. Catch me online sometime and stomp me into the dirt.

Edit: I haven't judged you based on the videos. I have judged you on the positions you've discussed at length and the ideas you continue to defend as well as your own arrogance towards criticism and lack of disclaimers for what you post.

 

[WuHT]

Well lets hope that was an off-day.

Zanaken: PrepK BE I really dont like if its not guaranteed simply because there is a huge window for your opponent to crouch underneath and retaliate (since its telegraphed too). Risk-reward is a little lower than i'm comfortable with just because its i20 (so I can't reflexively react to step) and there is known whiffing problem against opponents up close. The window to crouch is large enough that you can fit in your own i12 6BBB to CH so its not like crouching the 2nd hit of 6AB. And your comment on 90% grab break really makes you seem not credible. You'll notice that this subforum avoids heavy exaggeration, and saying that only 1 out of 10 grab attempts are successful against you is really hard to believe.


Bojack has issued a challenge on xbox, but I doubt the connection would provide anything meaningful (nor settle any differences over forum posts).

Bojack are you going to post videos soon ? It'd be more than fair if Zanaken was allowed to give you a critique of what he thinks of your gameplay (so taht the entire raph subforum improves the understanding of our little idiosyncrasies).

PizaNiko: Have you ever tried CE when you know maxi is entering stance ? (like after his 6A?) Or is internet connection too slow ?

 

[Real_Bojack]

I wish I could put up vids. I lack the equipment AFAIK, perhaps the camera on my laptop??? Even then, I have a very low opinion of my own playstyle/ability so there's little chance Zany could critique me harder than I already do myself. Perhaps I could do some matches with Enkindu and see if he could put them up for me? I dunno if he'd have the time.

This all being said nothing would please me more than for Zany to trash me on Live and teach me new things, I don't have a significant ego and despise serious eliteism. My main beef with him has always been the way he reacts to many of us other Raph players critiquing his ideas. Also, do remember that after all this I still found some positive things to say about some of his posted matches and much of this flame war started way before any of us went to post any vids anyways.

 

[PizaNiko]

PizaNiko: Have you ever tried CE when you know maxi is entering stance ? (like after his 6A?) Or is internet connection too slow ?

Internet connection is not slow, slow is my hands. :) Well, I simply had not thought. To cut stance by CE sounds cool and useful. I will practice.

 

[WuHT]

Internet connection is not slow, slow is my hands. :) Well, I simply had not thought. To cut stance by CE sounds cool and useful. I will practice.

yeah 8A+B will aGI maxi's 6A+B. Too bad his AA is too fast for 8A+B after 11K on hit.

I only know to use B+K after blocking maxi's 22A and he tries LI A immediately after (CE is 1 frame too slow).

I don't have a lot of anti-maxi tricks

 

[hwang24]

Delloso, here's how a Raphael player shanked the guts out of me...

These tactics were spot on...

 

[Zanaken]

Well lets hope that was an off-day.

Zanaken: PrepK BE I really dont like if its not guaranteed simply because there is a huge window for your opponent to crouch underneath and retaliate (since its telegraphed too). Risk-reward is a little lower than i'm comfortable with just because its i20 (so I can't reflexively react to step) and there is known whiffing problem against opponents up close. The window to crouch is large enough that you can fit in your own i12 6BBB to CH so its not like crouching the 2nd hit of 6AB. And your comment on 90% grab break really makes you seem not credible. You'll notice that this subforum avoids heavy exaggeration, and saying that only 1 out of 10 grab attempts are successful against you is really hard to believe.


Bojack has issued a challenge on xbox, but I doubt the connection would provide anything meaningful (nor settle any differences over forum posts).

Bojack are you going to post videos soon ? It'd be more than fair if Zanaken was allowed to give you a critique of what he thinks of your gameplay (so taht the entire raph subforum improves the understanding of our little idiosyncrasies).

PizaNiko: Have you ever tried CE when you know maxi is entering stance ? (like after his 6A?) Or is internet connection too slow ?

Dude, don't worry, I am SUPER tired of trying to talk with a guy who admits he's a scrub, and then proceeds to tell me why he is so much better than me.

Either way, I know his kind. He can give it, but can't take it. It seems we both have a similar opinion of each other now, as to me; that's ego. Once he amazes me with his proof of concept towards his play-style he can can it like I was told to.

Till then, you guys can critique me with "Yeah, well, if the opponent was better you would have lost..." (Guess what, Sherlock? That's ALWAYS the case!)

These tactics were spot on...

I think some good old basics + some anti-Raphael tech would really help you out. I got the feeling he is a decent player who doesn't actually main Raphael. He played well, but clearly doesn't know much about the character. ie. No combos etc

 

[piggy]

I don't check the boards for two days and things get crazy!

Anyway, I've probably played the Mitsu matchup more times than anyone ever should, and let me tell you, it is frustrating as balls. If you are really paying attention you can block 2KB BE, just because it is so flashy and comes out of standing - if you can do this, it will help a lot. The only other real advice is...use 2A and 2K a lot more. I don't care who you are or what you are doing, you aren't using 2A enough!

 

[Wyde]

Delloso, here's how a Raphael player shanked the guts out of me...These tactics were spot on...

I think your difficulties largely came down to character ignorance, which is obviously a common issue. To sum it up, you didn't know how to deal with his Preparation or Shadow Evade stances and there wasn't anywhere near enough sidestepping. =P

• A lot of the time you got spaced/faked out and tagged with 44B. It's not as good as Mitsurugi's 4B, but it does the job. Keep in mind that it's also -16 on block, so be sure to punish with moves like Patroklos' 236B/236:B or Mitsurugi's B6 when you do.
• You have to look out for his main entries into Preparation/PREP before you can do something about them. Those are 6B(B), 3(B), 6A(B), 4(B) and 66(B). If you block one of these moves, you should have enough time to counter almost all his options with a fast tech-crouching mid or low attack with long range. Patroklos has 236AB and Mitsurugi has 1B and probably 236B if he is close enough. You may have to play more carefully if Raphael starts countering those with the PREP 4 auto-GI, or mixing things up by not going to PREP in the first place, but only worry about that when you force you opponent to adapt or die. The less you have to deal with SE, the better.
• You absolutely have to duck/just-guard and counter the second hit of PREP K* on reaction! It ought to be a huge-ass risk for Raphael for being easily punishable, so the more you can discourage him from tagging you with ridiculous damage purely by chance, punish this consistently. It's dead-on neutral on block (±0) so just standing there is permission to let him continue his offence. Don't allow that.
• 6BBB or PREP BBB is -16 on block like 44B, so that should be easy enough to punish. Mitsurugi has 236B/236B*, 6B2/1B as optimal punishes while Patroklos has 236B/236B*, 44B/CE. BB works too if you need to keep it simple.
• Just-guard or Guard-Impact the last hit of 66B*/PREP BB* if you can. Just blocking will only leave Raphael with mild disadvantage (-6) and you closer to a guard-break.
• Raphael has both good reach and good movement that a good player can and will make plenty of use of. Spacing is a big part of his game, so be sure to get to grips with the ranges of your own attacks, and be wary of Raphael doing his best to keep just out of your reach so he can whiff punish. You suffered quite a lot of those, so work on that.
• Sidestep more! Raphael has very few decent tracking tools at range (Only 66A, 22_88A and SE A come to mind). If your opponent is overly insistent about the game being a 2D fighter, make them pay for it.

That's all the immediately useful Anti-Raphael advice I can offer. Good luck with the matchup in future.

 

[Delloso]

Delloso, here's how a Raphael player shanked the guts out of me..

Thanks for uploading these vids man. My playstyle is different from his though, I focus more on spacing and punishing and generally risk free play. As for advice, there's not really much I can say that wasn't already said. You should practice more on the mu and not let him get away with gimmicks and patterns.

 

[Zanaken]

My playstyle is different from his though, I focus more on spacing and punishing and generally risk free play.

No baiting or trolling -

How is that working out for you?

I ask because, out of us few Raphael posters, I seem to have placed myself in "Camp Risky." I think it's stupid as all hell to propagate my play-style onto others without trying theirs first. I want to be flashy, sure, but I also like winning.

Incidentally, I find my play-style to be effective, very much so. Raphael feels mid / mid-high tier when everything clicks into place and my JG and auto-GIs etc are hitting on point. So how is yours working out?

I was fighting a Viola the other day who was handing me my ass with mix-ups. I was loving it until I hit like 25% win ratio to her. At this point the only effective strategy that seemed to land me wins was... -eughhhh- Spacing.... and -bleahhhhh- Safety. This could be character specific, seeing as (no insult to her,) I have met and beaten better players. Either way, I want to know how well these two things work in the long run.

My friend told me the other day I actually space more than I think, or to quote more directly "You don't really space, I don't THINK. It's just that when I want to hit you with something, you always seem to be miraculously out of range, even with no back-dashes."

 

[Delloso]

For me it works great and it's a huge part of my gameplay. It allows me to at least be a good match against excellent players, by exploring their lack of range and then punishing their whiffs.

The way I see it, if Raph was given a good mix of fast and ranged moves, the developers clearly wanted spacing, zoning, and punishing to be fundamental parts of his gameplan. You can play agressive and "in your face" no problem, but to cast aside these gameplay aspects I mentioned and label them as useless is only holding you back imo. In this game the damage is higher than it's ever been, you can't afford to make as many mistakes or play as risky as before. Only if the risk/reward for playing like this pays off, and I don't believe it does in Raph's case, because he lacks the tools to do damage and has holes in his offense (his moveset is very linear overall and too many moves are vulnerable to TC).

Spacing allows you to play to your character's strenghs. You may find it boring, but I think it's incredibly satisfying to see my opponent whiffing and being able to punish him for free. I don't always play like that though, I'm very agressive near walls or if my opponents have trouble escaping Raph's tricks due to lack of mu knowledge.

I really like that you're considering other ways to play Raph.