Angrel-San
[10] Knight
To discuss our Setsuka vs. situations.
Setsuka Matchups
- Thread starter Angrel-San
- Start date
Shenrei
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
Taki:
- Be aware of abusing 4A. Taki can avoid it with 4A+BB and punish you badly for it. She can also punish whiffs with 33B. 4A is usable when you think a Taki player will go POA or POK post 1BA / AB PO on block.
- Know when to stay on the ground. Taki has some very damaging tech traps involving her 6A+B bomb. She has another one that's extremely damaging off of CH22K but I'm not so sure exactly what the notation is.
- Learn to duck the high in 1BA, though most good Taki players won't just throw this out.
- 8K_9K eats PO teleport for breakfast, regardless if you blocked the PO string or not (from my experience anyway)
- When she goes into her B+K stance (that forward roll), don't duck. Be prepared to block or break a throw.
- POK causes a shakeable stun. Taki has frame advantage if you block this move, so beware.
- POB after 1BA on hit will hit you if you check duck. This is not the case with POB after AB on hit.
- POA, as well as POK can be ducked regardless if 1BA or AB are on hit or block. Punish with umbrella or FC3A+B combo wsB will NOT work.
- POB can be stepped to your right regardless if 1BA or AB are on hit or block.
Hilde:
- In general, you want to step to your left.
- Avoid midrange and long range, close range is where you want to be.
- Be aware of frame advantage after a blocked charge, especially from charged horizontals.
- Work the throw game. Hilde players are always charging, so breaking throws is something they would rather not do, and is a bit harder to do so, since they have to release the charge, and then repress the button fast. They will also lose charge when they do this.
Maxi:
- AA is punishable with AA
- BB you can punish with umbrella or 44B+K, unless he goes into wavering light.
- Everytime he does that jumping high spinning roundhouse, you can duck it and make him pay with fc3A+B
- Maxi's moves that force crouch...I dunno the notation, but block that shit and punish with umbrella. He can also go into wavering light to GI you, but if you bait that, you can get a free 33B.
- His old 2A+B (I dunno if that's the notation now) that now comes out of wavering light, can be punished with umbrella
- His high kick from wavering light, just duck and punish
- 1K is umbrella punishable...lol
- 3B on block can be punished with 2A from what I remember. I believe the K followup can tech jump 2As but I don't recall correctly.
I'll add more once I actually learn Maxi's notation. Against a well played, safe Setsuka, this is a very tough matchup for Maxi in terms of theory(then again, what isn't right?).
Ivy:
- Coil stance 214B (I think? Whatever that move is that Ivy players love) if blocked, can be punished with umbrella. Ivy players hate that.
- That mid, low, high twirl shit move, if you block the second hit, you can punish with umbrella. If the second hit is canceled, keep in mind that you still have advantage.
- She has another twirl move where she spins standing up and she laughs like a girly anime character going "oh ho ha ho ha!" or something. It almost seems as if she's open for punishment in the late ending frames. I've actually rushed in and landed a B+K but I don't know if that's guaranteed. I'm way too lazy to test these days. Actually, I'll test this shit right now. Yup, B+K hits :O freeeee
- Her 22K from Sword Stance is umbrella punishable
- Her UB (the one that can be delayed and looks like Cervantes's UB), can be stepped to her right for a free B+K
- Her longrange UB that is mid, you can 11A super tech crouch under it if you get trapped near a wall.
Yoshimitsu:
- Against his 9B+K B+K, on block it's punishable with AA
- Against Dragonfly A on block, 9K will beat Dragonfly B, and Dragonfly K. If he transitions directly into Super Dragonfly B, if you're close enough, 9K will whiff, but so will his UB
- Against Super Dragonfly B, 8WR step doesn't seem to work. Using normal step in either direction (22 etc, instead of [2]) will avoid it. Running underneath it also gives you a free BT throw
- His FC3K, and DRGF K is punishable on block with FC3A+B
Taki:
- Be aware of abusing 4A. Taki can avoid it with 4A+BB and punish you badly for it. She can also punish whiffs with 33B. 4A is usable when you think a Taki player will go POA or POK post 1BA / AB PO on block.
- Know when to stay on the ground. Taki has some very damaging tech traps involving her 6A+B bomb. She has another one that's extremely damaging off of CH22K but I'm not so sure exactly what the notation is.
- Learn to duck the high in 1BA, though most good Taki players won't just throw this out.
- 8K_9K eats PO teleport for breakfast, regardless if you blocked the PO string or not (from my experience anyway)
- When she goes into her B+K stance (that forward roll), don't duck. Be prepared to block or break a throw.
- POK causes a shakeable stun. Taki has frame advantage if you block this move, so beware.
- POB after 1BA on hit will hit you if you check duck. This is not the case with POB after AB on hit.
- POA, as well as POK can be ducked regardless if 1BA or AB are on hit or block. Punish with umbrella or FC3A+B combo wsB will NOT work.
- POB can be stepped to your right regardless if 1BA or AB are on hit or block.
Hilde:
- In general, you want to step to your left.
- Avoid midrange and long range, close range is where you want to be.
- Be aware of frame advantage after a blocked charge, especially from charged horizontals.
- Work the throw game. Hilde players are always charging, so breaking throws is something they would rather not do, and is a bit harder to do so, since they have to release the charge, and then repress the button fast. They will also lose charge when they do this.
Maxi:
- AA is punishable with AA
- BB you can punish with umbrella or 44B+K, unless he goes into wavering light.
- Everytime he does that jumping high spinning roundhouse, you can duck it and make him pay with fc3A+B
- Maxi's moves that force crouch...I dunno the notation, but block that shit and punish with umbrella. He can also go into wavering light to GI you, but if you bait that, you can get a free 33B.
- His old 2A+B (I dunno if that's the notation now) that now comes out of wavering light, can be punished with umbrella
- His high kick from wavering light, just duck and punish
- 1K is umbrella punishable...lol
- 3B on block can be punished with 2A from what I remember. I believe the K followup can tech jump 2As but I don't recall correctly.
I'll add more once I actually learn Maxi's notation. Against a well played, safe Setsuka, this is a very tough matchup for Maxi in terms of theory(then again, what isn't right?).
Ivy:
- Coil stance 214B (I think? Whatever that move is that Ivy players love) if blocked, can be punished with umbrella. Ivy players hate that.
- That mid, low, high twirl shit move, if you block the second hit, you can punish with umbrella. If the second hit is canceled, keep in mind that you still have advantage.
- She has another twirl move where she spins standing up and she laughs like a girly anime character going "oh ho ha ho ha!" or something. It almost seems as if she's open for punishment in the late ending frames. I've actually rushed in and landed a B+K but I don't know if that's guaranteed. I'm way too lazy to test these days. Actually, I'll test this shit right now. Yup, B+K hits :O freeeee
- Her 22K from Sword Stance is umbrella punishable
- Her UB (the one that can be delayed and looks like Cervantes's UB), can be stepped to her right for a free B+K
- Her longrange UB that is mid, you can 11A super tech crouch under it if you get trapped near a wall.
Yoshimitsu:
- Against his 9B+K B+K, on block it's punishable with AA
- Against Dragonfly A on block, 9K will beat Dragonfly B, and Dragonfly K. If he transitions directly into Super Dragonfly B, if you're close enough, 9K will whiff, but so will his UB
- Against Super Dragonfly B, 8WR step doesn't seem to work. Using normal step in either direction (22 etc, instead of [2]) will avoid it. Running underneath it also gives you a free BT throw
- His FC3K, and DRGF K is punishable on block with FC3A+B
Revneg
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
be aware that if you block 214B at long range, and in some cases mid range, they can transition into SE stance and backstep away from umbrella, then you get punished.
be aware that if you block 214B at long range, and in some cases mid range, they can transition into SE stance and backstep away from umbrella, then you get punished.
Shenrei
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
Yeah, at long range, umbrella will whiff, but that should be visible anyway as it's pretty easy to see if you're in range of the umbrella connecting or not. Umbrella needs more nos!
Yeah, at long range, umbrella will whiff, but that should be visible anyway as it's pretty easy to see if you're in range of the umbrella connecting or not. Umbrella needs more nos!
Revneg
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
also, (too lazy to check) what moves of his in particular that force crouch and can be umbrella punished?
also, (too lazy to check) what moves of his in particular that force crouch and can be umbrella punished?
Davo87
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
Take in mind, 214B on hit is more unsafe compared to 214 on hit. Either way she is still at disadvantage as long as its normal hit.
CL A+B, A+K
All stances WS A+B
Take in mind, 214B on hit is more unsafe compared to 214 on hit. Either way she is still at disadvantage as long as its normal hit.
CL A+B, A+K
All stances WS A+B
Maxou
[11] Champion
Setsuka matchups
Against Yoshimitsu :
Well, from my experience, I believe Setsuka has clearly the adv.
Be aware of frames traps involving MCF since it leads to good combos.
FC 3K can be punished by umbrella, that's true but it can also be punished by 1B:B (harder but more damaging) and 33B (easier).
FC 1KKK... strings can be punished by umbrella, regarding if the do 2/3/4/5 K. Well if they do 5 and miss the JF they get punished HARD (B+K string).
3A is a good move to use since it kills a lot of options (some DGF options get killed heavily with this. Well DGF get kill by 9K too but 3A has really good uses against him).
3B can be punished by 44B+K (easier) and 1B:B (harder but more damaging).
3AB can be punished heavily and the last B can be GIed (autoGIed).
ALWAYS step to his right (it evades a lot of moves it shouldn't sometimes).
Learn to keep him away since he doesn't like that.
Against Yoshimitsu :
Well, from my experience, I believe Setsuka has clearly the adv.
Be aware of frames traps involving MCF since it leads to good combos.
FC 3K can be punished by umbrella, that's true but it can also be punished by 1B:B (harder but more damaging) and 33B (easier).
FC 1KKK... strings can be punished by umbrella, regarding if the do 2/3/4/5 K. Well if they do 5 and miss the JF they get punished HARD (B+K string).
3A is a good move to use since it kills a lot of options (some DGF options get killed heavily with this. Well DGF get kill by 9K too but 3A has really good uses against him).
3B can be punished by 44B+K (easier) and 1B:B (harder but more damaging).
3AB can be punished heavily and the last B can be GIed (autoGIed).
ALWAYS step to his right (it evades a lot of moves it shouldn't sometimes).
Learn to keep him away since he doesn't like that.
Shenrei
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
Nice. I'm liking that 3A. I just tried it and post Dragonfly A on block, it beats Dragonfly A and Dragonfly B. Dragonfly K will hit however.
Nice. I'm liking that 3A. I just tried it and post Dragonfly A on block, it beats Dragonfly A and Dragonfly B. Dragonfly K will hit however.
A_Bad_Idea
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
Anyone have any good vs Amy tips? I swear that girl has frame advantage on ANYTHING, even on block! How do you beat a character who puts Setsuka's speed to shame?
Anyone have any good vs Amy tips? I swear that girl has frame advantage on ANYTHING, even on block! How do you beat a character who puts Setsuka's speed to shame?
Dullyanna
[10] Knight
Setsuka matchups
Basically, GIs. Also, if they like to abuse 6BB, Setsuka's 1B:B should do the trick. Try to keep a little distance, since you have the advantage of range (In terms of range and speed, Setsuka is better than Amy, IMHO). I'm only used to scrubby/moderately good Amy users though, so somebody with more experience could give you more useful info.
Basically, GIs. Also, if they like to abuse 6BB, Setsuka's 1B:B should do the trick. Try to keep a little distance, since you have the advantage of range (In terms of range and speed, Setsuka is better than Amy, IMHO). I'm only used to scrubby/moderately good Amy users though, so somebody with more experience could give you more useful info.
Rico
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
For Amy,
Stop simply blocking the second hit of 3B,A. It's safe, and hits the soul guage pretty hard.
With Sets, use 9B to score damage and avoid the second hit. If they don't do the second hit, the 9B is safe and uninterruptable. All characters can jump the second hit with varying degrees of success.
Also, she has a lot of tech traps so stay down briefly after being hit. A small tic hit is better than getting hit by a full combo.
For Amy,
Stop simply blocking the second hit of 3B,A. It's safe, and hits the soul guage pretty hard.
With Sets, use 9B to score damage and avoid the second hit. If they don't do the second hit, the 9B is safe and uninterruptable. All characters can jump the second hit with varying degrees of success.
Also, she has a lot of tech traps so stay down briefly after being hit. A small tic hit is better than getting hit by a full combo.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Setsuka matchups
Amy isn't that bad of a match up for Setsuka, it's more 50/50 or the adv. to Setsuka.
Don't really remember but I think Amy's B+K K is -12 so AA punishable.
Learn her frame trap moves :
66A : you shouldn't get hit by that since it's so slow... just interrupt it or GI it. I prefer the GI personally.
1K,A : The second hit is duckable and give us a free umbrella (maybe more if you duck the last A but umbrella is sure and if done correctly, it punishes 1K regarding if Amy does the A follow up or not - TC at 1st frame !!- but it can be hard)
A+B K : that low is slow but it's a good move, Amy ends up at -1 if it's blocked. Be carefull of that one since it's anti step, and has a good TC too. It's slow so if Amy abuses it randomly (well at high level she shouldn't so don't expect it really) try to 9B or GI it.
A+B B : that one is annoying too. Amy ends up at -1/-2 too.
A+K K : a good one too. Amy ends up neutral or -1.
Apart from 66A and 1K,A (you shouldn't get it by them anyway), umbrella beats ALL their frame traps. 2A takes care of the rest, teach them not to try to frame trap you too much.
You shouldn't be fighting Amy up close but from mid-far distance. Learn to step and punish her accordingly, it can be hard since Setsuka has 5T shoes but step is still one of Setsuka's best way of dealing damage. And Amy has a HUGE problem with step at mid-far distance. She really lacks of anti step tools and her strings are linear.
Learn to punish her too : 66A+B is AA punishable, 1A is umbrella punishable (need to check about 1B:B) and 2B+K too.
Amy isn't that bad of a match up for Setsuka, it's more 50/50 or the adv. to Setsuka.
Don't really remember but I think Amy's B+K K is -12 so AA punishable.
Learn her frame trap moves :
66A : you shouldn't get hit by that since it's so slow... just interrupt it or GI it. I prefer the GI personally.
1K,A : The second hit is duckable and give us a free umbrella (maybe more if you duck the last A but umbrella is sure and if done correctly, it punishes 1K regarding if Amy does the A follow up or not - TC at 1st frame !!- but it can be hard)
A+B K : that low is slow but it's a good move, Amy ends up at -1 if it's blocked. Be carefull of that one since it's anti step, and has a good TC too. It's slow so if Amy abuses it randomly (well at high level she shouldn't so don't expect it really) try to 9B or GI it.
A+B B : that one is annoying too. Amy ends up at -1/-2 too.
A+K K : a good one too. Amy ends up neutral or -1.
Apart from 66A and 1K,A (you shouldn't get it by them anyway), umbrella beats ALL their frame traps. 2A takes care of the rest, teach them not to try to frame trap you too much.
You shouldn't be fighting Amy up close but from mid-far distance. Learn to step and punish her accordingly, it can be hard since Setsuka has 5T shoes but step is still one of Setsuka's best way of dealing damage. And Amy has a HUGE problem with step at mid-far distance. She really lacks of anti step tools and her strings are linear.
Learn to punish her too : 66A+B is AA punishable, 1A is umbrella punishable (need to check about 1B:B) and 2B+K too.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Setsuka matchups
Kilik:
Against BP, GI the low into 50/50, A+B the B GB, and 44B+K the K since it's -14.
Against 66B, if it gets predictable, step to the right and throw/33B/B+K. I don't recommend GI/counter since that move has the AT making it very risky to do so.
Against 2A, GI into 50/50 or A+K B if you have the reflexes.
Against WSB, bait it to whiff and 33B/bA and if you're feeling suicidal A+K B. Same as 66B, don't go into this looking for GI/counter since you whiff and it's pain. The risk isn't worth the reward unless you have the counter maxed out.
Against Asura, only the first one on block, punish with 33B/3B/1B JF, second and third on block punish with B+K. You can step this move as well from the front and punish. If Kilik is BT you can't do this since Clairvoyance tracks so stick with the punish list here.
And prepare to do lots of 1K if the Kilik isn't a scrub and can buffer MO throws from FC.
Overall, since Kilik is so damn safe, you need to be more risky and GI more actively. The risks in this are well worth it since a wrong guess from him it's major pain.
And this is one of the very few fights that I don't recommend the use of Umbrella unless in combo situation. Kilik is too safe for it and blocked Umbrella means you're eating 80+ damage for it or RO.
DON'T USE UMBRELLA AGAINST KILIK.
Kilik:
Against BP, GI the low into 50/50, A+B the B GB, and 44B+K the K since it's -14.
Against 66B, if it gets predictable, step to the right and throw/33B/B+K. I don't recommend GI/counter since that move has the AT making it very risky to do so.
Against 2A, GI into 50/50 or A+K B if you have the reflexes.
Against WSB, bait it to whiff and 33B/bA and if you're feeling suicidal A+K B. Same as 66B, don't go into this looking for GI/counter since you whiff and it's pain. The risk isn't worth the reward unless you have the counter maxed out.
Against Asura, only the first one on block, punish with 33B/3B/1B JF, second and third on block punish with B+K. You can step this move as well from the front and punish. If Kilik is BT you can't do this since Clairvoyance tracks so stick with the punish list here.
And prepare to do lots of 1K if the Kilik isn't a scrub and can buffer MO throws from FC.
Overall, since Kilik is so damn safe, you need to be more risky and GI more actively. The risks in this are well worth it since a wrong guess from him it's major pain.
And this is one of the very few fights that I don't recommend the use of Umbrella unless in combo situation. Kilik is too safe for it and blocked Umbrella means you're eating 80+ damage for it or RO.
DON'T USE UMBRELLA AGAINST KILIK.
Promiethius
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
This seems to be really true, I had some problems using Setsuka vs Kilik in a tournament once. He just is ridiculously safe... I noticed that going for CF works real well vs kilik since shes hot as it.
This seems to be really true, I had some problems using Setsuka vs Kilik in a tournament once. He just is ridiculously safe... I noticed that going for CF works real well vs kilik since shes hot as it.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Setsuka matchups
Kilik is a really good character but Setsuka has the edge against him.
He has really good range (better than Setsu) but the tools he has at Setsu's max range are less effective and damaging than hers, so make it a ranged game. Don't bother to space him out, it doesn't work that way, bA him, A+K A him, 33B him, deal your damage/mix up and space him out again.
Up close he is more dangerous with his best damage dealing move and tons of evasive stuff, so I don't advice to fight up close. Though if you end up close, 214K, 11A (IIRC if done correctly and with good timing it goes through Kilik's WS B), 1K, 4A, GI, 66B+K and A+K A are your best bet. Up close learn his punishable stuff and his frame trap stuff (A+K A, 4A, 214K can work wonders since it kills some evasive options he has).
Learn to GI him and punish him with his unsafe stuff, he's safe but when he isn't it's often damaging for him.
Kilik is a really good character but Setsuka has the edge against him.
He has really good range (better than Setsu) but the tools he has at Setsu's max range are less effective and damaging than hers, so make it a ranged game. Don't bother to space him out, it doesn't work that way, bA him, A+K A him, 33B him, deal your damage/mix up and space him out again.
Up close he is more dangerous with his best damage dealing move and tons of evasive stuff, so I don't advice to fight up close. Though if you end up close, 214K, 11A (IIRC if done correctly and with good timing it goes through Kilik's WS B), 1K, 4A, GI, 66B+K and A+K A are your best bet. Up close learn his punishable stuff and his frame trap stuff (A+K A, 4A, 214K can work wonders since it kills some evasive options he has).
Learn to GI him and punish him with his unsafe stuff, he's safe but when he isn't it's often damaging for him.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Setsuka matchups
I disagree.
I think Kilik has the advantage in this matchup but not by much.
Kilik can't spam Asura like an idiot 'cause Setsuka punishes that big.
Setsuka however is limited in her mid/throw game. Predictable mid usage can be Asura punished and a throw attempt is punished either by Asura or WSB.
Both have their safe mid checks like Setsuka's 33B and Kilik's 66B and 2A to check (not pressure) here and there and both have their counters in Asura and A+B counter.
Kilik has the advantage though that Setsuka can't mid check at range with bA safely like she can do against other characters. Kilik punishes that with A+B.
But what tips this match in Kilik's favor is that Kilik can approach Setsuka better and safely and mixup his MO throws/WSB while Setsuka is relegated to whiff punishing and punishing only.
If Setsuka didn't have her big damage potential, the advantage would be bigger for Kilik. As it is, this is at heart, a heavily turtly match for Setsuka and more depending on what Kilik does than what she does.
I disagree.
I think Kilik has the advantage in this matchup but not by much.
Kilik can't spam Asura like an idiot 'cause Setsuka punishes that big.
Setsuka however is limited in her mid/throw game. Predictable mid usage can be Asura punished and a throw attempt is punished either by Asura or WSB.
Both have their safe mid checks like Setsuka's 33B and Kilik's 66B and 2A to check (not pressure) here and there and both have their counters in Asura and A+B counter.
Kilik has the advantage though that Setsuka can't mid check at range with bA safely like she can do against other characters. Kilik punishes that with A+B.
But what tips this match in Kilik's favor is that Kilik can approach Setsuka better and safely and mixup his MO throws/WSB while Setsuka is relegated to whiff punishing and punishing only.
If Setsuka didn't have her big damage potential, the advantage would be bigger for Kilik. As it is, this is at heart, a heavily turtly match for Setsuka and more depending on what Kilik does than what she does.
KDZaster
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
No.
Setsuka has a wide array of damaging kicks and highs that stop Kilik in his tracks.
No random B-mid spamming for Setsuka in this matchup, but 22K, 3K, 214K, 44K
and her powerful highs like 66A, 44B+K, and 4K
put her right in position to not only shut down Asura Spam and random long-range Asura, but also give her the opportunity to use 1B:B in close once they find Asura being shut down.
No.
Setsuka has a wide array of damaging kicks and highs that stop Kilik in his tracks.
No random B-mid spamming for Setsuka in this matchup, but 22K, 3K, 214K, 44K
and her powerful highs like 66A, 44B+K, and 4K
put her right in position to not only shut down Asura Spam and random long-range Asura, but also give her the opportunity to use 1B:B in close once they find Asura being shut down.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Setsuka matchups
LOL!
Asura isn't the biggest worry about Kilik at all.
It is good but not the biggest problem. Not even close.
LOL!
Asura isn't the biggest worry about Kilik at all.
It is good but not the biggest problem. Not even close.
Promiethius
[09] Warrior
Setsuka matchups
X.
Whats a good way Setsuka can deal with X? Just curious..
X.
Whats a good way Setsuka can deal with X? Just curious..