Hilde vs Character Name (Match ups)

Yea when i hit backturned opponent i always switch to 44k-4 ab. Some times you just hit them up at a wierd angle and 44k and B+k will always miss. I adjust to how i hit them very well but some times i will not take walls into consideration. And i will go for RO combo instead of B+k combo.

Yea i know the combo to do on asty:) But its alot more scary to be able to take 110 damage than only 75 damage.Not to mention RO combo covers so much space.

Yea step is really good, dodge and counter hit. ciernian i notice in your regionals you like to do C2B (blocked)-step alot.

I think hilde is not too bad vs any one but i thought astaroth,lizzy and voldo where mentionable.

Do you know a better back combo then launcher-44 kick-4 ab ?
 
What is the best thing to do against a Maxi player when you are caught in one of his strings? 1B to give you some distance for a C3B? Or C3A?
 
Most of Maxi's strings are interruptable at some point. if you have A, use 2A in the middle of some strings (If that point can be interrupted) to get a +8 or use K to poke him and get a +2 advantage.
 
Stepping with Hilde for these tough match ups cannot be over emphasized.

Characters like Cass, Sophie, and Voldo are very easy to step. That goes for most of the cast since Hilde's step is superior. Just get in the habit of tapping 8 or 2 when you have frame advantage/disadvantage, tech roll step off the ground, etc. You'll be surprised at what you'll get around.

I'd like to stay on topic though and begin by pointing out Hilde's worst match ups in order:

Yoda
Asty
Vader, Amy
Rock


You may be able to throw Apprentice in that list since you can't throw him, but we will see. I'll have to see if Amy deserves to be there. I just put her there for now because she's a pest.

But if you look at that list, you'll notice that all of these characters, even Amy to an extent, have weird air properties that forces Hilde to do a modified versions of her combos. These modified combos have less ring out potential and take off less damage.

That is one of the inherent challenges that Hilde faces with these characters.

Granted, Hilde can overcome these difficult matches with enough practice.

But let's talk about a potential game breaker for Hilde and focus on the ONE character who's odds Hilde may not be able to overcome so easily.
You probably guessed it by now, that character is that little ant Yoda. I mean really, Yoda?
It doesn't seem like Hilde can keep him out and her best combos or throws will not work on him.

Without Hilde's throw game and her doom combos, she can have a very long day.

Now Yoda does have less stamina than then rest of the cast AND Yoda has the worst sidestep in the game AND Yoda has the lowest Soul Guage meter in the game.
Hilde has to find a way to take advantage of these weaknesses.
She maybe able to evade Yoda quite well though. I'll investigate this match up by analyzing first how 'steppable' Yoda is.

I'm really crossing my fingers HOPING that Hilde can handle Yoda and that she doesn't have to rely on a counter pick.

I'll post some strats on Yoda, Asty, Rock, and Vader later.

Just keep in mind that a good Asty will always pose a threat to Hilde players because of his throws, heavy air properties, RO ability, range, POWER, natural kick moves that interrupt Hilde's charges, etc.
 
RTD said:
Stepping with Hilde for these tough match ups cannot be over emphasized.

Characters like Cass, Sophie, and Voldo are very easy to step. That goes for most of the cast since Hilde's step is superior. Just get in the habit of tapping 8 or 2 when you have frame advantage/disadvantage, tech roll step off the ground, etc. You'll be surprised at what you'll get around.

I'd like to stay on topic though and begin by pointing out Hilde's worst match ups in order:

Yoda
Asty
Vader,STD's Amy
Rock


You may be able to throw Apprentice in that list since you can't throw him, but we will see. I KNOW Amy deserves to be there because STD plays her and also because she's a pest.
Click to expand...

fixed it up for you
<3
 
... you don't have to modify anything for Amy.

Amy isn't that bad of a matchup imo.

Yoda is very steppable and you can use moves like bb, c1b, 66b when at range but he can roll under those. For up close you are better off using moves like 3b, 2b, c3b, 2A+B, 2A+K. I can't remember all the tests I did vs him at the moment, been awhile. I do know that 66A+B is a good move against him since he can't step for crap, and things like 7_8k work on him unless he's rolling or doing some tech crouch move.

[edit] Forgot to add that 1b and 33b are good against him too.
 
RTD:

There is no getting around a competent Yoda with Hilde in a consistent respectable manner. There is only one notable Yoda out there. Oofmatic and absolutely no one else.

Hilde can step Yoda all day but at the end of the day anyone can. She doesn't have any tools to do much to him at all.

The fact that her charges don't work, she can't throw him and her damage output is so low leaves her at a serious disadvantage.

It hurts even more when a smart player like Oof abuses the shit out of throws with Yoda that the match becomes almost impossible.

You will need a counter pick for Yoda if u consider some of the elite players of SCIV will be running him vs. her.

You have a phenomenal history so u should be able to relate.

Everyone else on that list is manageable.
 
c2bb c2aa is still a combo on him.
c3a stops his jump attacks
c3b 44k 4A+B works on him
she has tools to break his guard, and keep him at range
even on hit some of yodas stuff can be punished

This matchup is far from impossible, it's something that takes more work.
 
Yoda discovery from Something Unique:

You can interrupt Yoda's stance shifts in the air with K and u can also step his throws since he jumps.
 
RTD said:
Yoda discovery from Something Unique:

You can interrupt Yoda's stance shifts in the air with K and u can also step his throws since he jumps.
Click to expand...

Yoda doesn't really need force cancels outside of combos. And by stepping throws you mean you see him start the jumping animation and then you step? The Yoda can just throw out an AA and that will catch step, and its animation is similar to that of a throw; I'm not sure how many Hilde players can distinguish between AA and a throw on reaction.
 
Mailboxarson99:

It's all about mind games man. You gotta take chances after feeling out your opponent. If your opponent is throw happy then u respond accordingly until he switches up. In the end stepping Yoda's throws reaps good rewards while making the wrong decision will make u eat an AA. You decide how practical that is in a matchup.
 
SU..

the way you are thinking is too much in favour of the yoda player... the mix up is too extreme if you decide to "step"
the throw or his mix up in air...to me SC4 is all about player probability and frames... if the player is using throw mix up with aa.... it is best to elimate 2of the 3 options he has... "DUCKING" will eliminate 2 of these mix ups.. leaving you to make him think only to use 1 mix up.. mids (b's most likey).... to me i think it is better to think "ducking" than "Steping" in this type of sisuation... also the frames of the moves he's using on you in the mix up will be good to know as well so you can punish accordingly....

hmmm what i'm saying is that.. all moves in sc4 has a 50/50 mix up on you and the player... it is best to take away as many as you can the "following mix ups" that come after the initial move buy doing the single best counter... i just think that step in that sisuation is not good.....but than again.. what do i know hahahaha
 
STD:

I have to disagree. Stepping Yoda will get me out of every situation but tracking horizontals. Because Yoda jumps when he throws those are steppable as well. Stepping also gives me much greater results than risk ducking because her WS tools are useless in this matchup.

Universally ducking in most fighting games cause the worst kind of results if guessed wrong because most damaging moves are usually mid. It's just not a smart decision overall and in this particular matchup Hilde vs. Yoda.

Also I would rather lose 20 Damage or so compared to more that come from mids and hurt even more when ducked.

Ask yourself would u duck Hilde rather than step her. Would you duck Kilik rather than step him. Would you duck Amy rather than step her.
 
Well, I think that both perspectives are good.

SU is pointing out options that Hilde has for anticipated moves and STD is pointing out some good strategy points.

Since Yoda jumps for his AA, BB, and throws, it's valid to say that you should not rely on reaction to distinguish between them.

Fair enough.

As far as strategies against Yoda, It'd be worth determining if it's best to try to keep Yoda out, rush him down, or just side step him.
 
FC C2b 44k 4A+B should work on yoda.
FC C3BBA will whiff on the A, but its still some damage I guess and setups.
FC C1BB I think the second B misses for some stupid reason.
FC A charges aren't that hot, but I think I may have found something with FC C3AKB but no time to test it atm.

Stepping Yoda is the better thing to do I think, but ducking isn't such a bad thing from what I can tell (when he's in the air). Release a C3A when you see him jump or he does any force jump move and It should auto gi / stuff just about anything he does.

I tried finding the one 'magic' move to beat Yoda but from what I can tell Hilde doesn't have one that gives him a lot of trouble like sophies 4B+K. If someone finds a move you can literally spam on him that would be really nice, or at least a somewhat face move that beats out his roll.

I really should have written down what I found against him back when it was fresh in my memory. I'll do some testing tonight after work if I'm not busy playing RE5.

[edit] That's a good starting point RTD, when I was testing and the times I play vs Yoda I tend to rushdown / step. Keeping him out may be good with 33b and hell maybe even 11b depending on how it works against rolling. At the time I didn't think to use those two moves.
 
Anti-Yoda Guide

If you wanna beat Yoda with Hilde, then just keep reading.

Here are some things I've realized while playing against Yoda with Wolf Krone's Hilde.

Some high moves hit him at close range like: k, a, 22b, 4a, etc. 6A+K wiffs because Hilde attacks above Yoda's hit box.

FC C3 B,B,A - all three hits connect on Yoda's side.

SPAMMABLE MOVES
Moves that can be spammed against Yoda:

C2B - +2-4 on block. Yoda has a difficult time stepping this move
FC C2B - -6 to -7 on block, but this move pushes Yoda out on block
FC C2A - CH leads to good damage and you're +2 on block
C3 A - +4 mid, swats Yoda out the air and parries horizontals and verticals. what doesn't this move do again?
C3 B - good range and push back
FC C3 B, B - excellent range
1B - low retreat

C1 B is another noteworthy mention because of the push back, but it's not spammable as on block, it's -11~-12 frames.
You can also throw in some BBs for pushing him back, but since this move is -14 on block, it can't necessarily be spammed.

EDIT on April 17th, 10:00 am est:
Keep in mind that Yoda can roll under all standing mids, so you'll have to use while rising mids like FC C2 B to hit him out of hit. So even though I've listed all of these 'spammable' moves, keep in mind that the best thing you can spam against Yoda is evasiveness(side step, back dash cancels, spacing, ducking, etc.). Just think of a bull charging at you and you're like a metador with a cape making him whiff.

COMBOS
Most damaging combos against Yoda.

FC C2B, C3A , 4A+B - 62
C3 B, 44k, 4A+B - 61
or CH FC C2A, 1K,K, 2A+B, 2B+K - 69

other Yoda specific combos
66 A+B, 4A+B
C3 A, 4A+B - 43
FC C2B, C2 A - 45
C2B, C3 A, 4A+B - 47

Since the range of Yoda's ground roll is limited, you can replace any combo that ends in 2B+K with 2A+B. If he can't get out of it, do 2A+B again.

SWATTING
Also, you can hit Yoda out the air with A, K, 8K, 6A+K. 8K takes off more life but you have to do it just as Yoda jumps or he'll beat you to the attack.
The most effective move for hitting Yoda out the air is K, which is very devastating because it thwarts his mix ups, Yoda loses heavy damage because air attacks are counter hits in SC4, and he's at a mix up.

You can follow up with 2A+B, 2B+K, 2B or FC C2 B/FC C3 B, B.
All of these options will hit him if he decides to stay on the ground.
If you block Yoda's A,A or B,B and if he tries to continue his air strike by using some force, just hit him out the air with k.

STATEGIES
Let's talk about some strategies now.

One effective strategy you can execute against Yoda is to Soul Crush him.

FC C3 B, B works wonders in this department and pushes Yoda back on block. In fact, FC C3 B, B is the most effective move and fastest way Hilde can Soul Crush Yoda.

Starting from a green Soul Gauge bar, here are the amount of blocks it takes to Soul Crush Yoda with the following moves:
FC C3 B, B = 7 blocks
FC C2 B = 10 blocks

I put FC C2 B in that list because it is the second most effective Soul Crushing move against Yoda, if not the first.

Someone who's good at math will have to determine if it takes less time to Soul Crush Yoda with FC C3 B, B or FC C2 B.

EDIT: B,B Soul Crushes like a mutha! Just press b,b 5 times and then press b for a Soul Crush. If Yoda's Soul Gauge is blinking, you can also crush it with a 4A+B. The reason why this is good is because Hilde's second B cannot be parried or sidestepped once the first one is blocked, thereby forcing another block.

EDIT on April 17th, 10:00 am est: if Yoda's Soul Gauge bar is blinking red, you can still do B, B. That's because if the first B Soul Crushes him, the second B will whiff. Once the second B whiffs, Hilde will recover while Yoda is still in the Soul Crush state, at which point she can still pull of the Critical Finisher.


Keep in mind that if Yoda doesn't block your Bs and decides to eat the damage, then he'll lose 33 points of damage. It's a no win situation for him because if he blocks, he gets Soul Crushed and if he doesn't block, he loses his life bar and dies.

With that said, take advantage of Yoda's weak Soul Gauge and Soul Crush the shit out him.

UNBLOCKABLES?
Something I haven't experimented with are her unblockables against him. Yoda has a difficult time moving, so it should be easier to land these on him.
It will be worth looking at some setups for these.
I still have to see if this strategy would be practical though.

LOWS
You can also poke his toes with 2k. This move tech crouches his jumps and sets ups your FC charges. He'll just love the foot message.

RISKS
Also remember that Yoda always has to take a risk to get in because his dash is a jump and his movement is very slow.

That means that Yoda has to either 1)jump in with(6B), which can be sidestepped, 2) roll in(236K), which can be sidestepped, 3) roll at you with a low(6A+K), which can be blocked and punished, or better yet, jumped and punished with a charge release 4) thrust kick(A+K), which can be sidestepped.

EDIT on April 17th, 10:00 am est, you don't even have to deal with this stupid mess. You can just side step all of his options. Just read the section below.

YODA HAS NO FAST GROUND OPTIONS
YODA doesn't have a fast 2A or a 2K like Hilde. Yoda's 2A is a low move, but it's not an interrupter. Use this lack of speed to your advantage.

YODA'S WEAK SIDE
Believe it or not, even Yoda has a weak side. Since Yoda is weak to his left, just side step to YOUR right.

SIDE STEPPING
Yoda turns out to be a linear character. Every single move in Yoda's move list, except for As of course, can be side stepped to his weak side, even his throws! If Yoda gets A, A happy, just block the first A, duck the second one, and then use a while rising move, preferably FC C2 B for a launcher.

When side stepping Yoda, Hilde has various ways she can execute this. She can either single tap 8_2, or double tap 8_2, or side step cancel with 8_2~6, 8_2~6, and so forth.

The latter technique is the most effective with respect to the range she covers in the least amount of time.

MOVEMENT
Yoda has the worse movement in the game and Hilde has the best movement in the game. Put 2 and 2 together.


Well, that's it for now. With my how-to guides, Hilde will be the only character you'll ever have to learn.

This concludes my anti-Yoda guide for Hilde.
 
AWESOME POST!!! RTD... very good info to know!!... however after the last toronto tourney..and seing OFF vs Valie.... i still think that this fight is extremly hard for hilde...it is "almost" an "auto win" for yoda..
 
STD said:
AWESOME POST!!! RTD... very good info to know!!... however after the last toronto tourney..and seing OFF vs Valie.... i still think that this fight is extremly hard for hilde...it is "almost" an "auto win" for yoda..
Click to expand...

oh yeah, check out my edit:) if Yoda blocks 5 times, he's dead.

besides, it must be nice for you to have an anti-everyone character. ahh, i remember those days!
 
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