Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Taking another guest from the same franchise for the same game doesn’t seem like the best idea.

I also laugh at the twitter archives where Daishi says "new bold ideas require courage" and I'm just like.... yeah you were brave alright! Brave enough to tank the series with your horrid fanfiction!
Eh, it was the incompleteness of the product that bothered me more than the content, and I’ll keep that as my foremost complaint above everything else. What we did get was pretty refreshingly different. I liked the Soul Calibur being the villain angle, and the story of Enlightened Kilik had promise, not to mention Raphael as Nightmare, Amy as Viola, and whatever would have happened with Z.W.E.I., Hilde, and the rest. Daishi gets a lot of undeserved hate due to the natural disasters and the corporate meddling forcing the team to abandon the project for Tekken instead of using post-launch as an opportunity to complete the experience like they’re doing with SoulCalibur VI.
 
Taking another guest from the same franchise for the same game doesn’t seem like the best idea.
Agreed 500,000%. Haohmaru was already a dubious choice on many levels, and though he has been embraced a bit more warmly than was expected, with a consensus that he's distinct enough to justify the add, we definitely do not need yet another Miyamoto Musashi/'samurai determined to challenge himself against the best' trope in this game. And regardless, once Setsuka is added, I'd say another Japanese character of any sort is highly unlikely, which discounts most of SamSho's cast and all of the more likely transplants after Haohmaru

Eh, it was the incompleteness of the product that bothered me more than the content, and I’ll keep that as my foremost complaint above everything else. What we did get was pretty refreshingly different.
Yeah, I don't think the story was the problem with SCV--and to the extent you can point out faults with it, I don't think 'fanfiction' is the right description: fanfiction would tend to focus on established characters but simply place them in poorly conceptualized and executed situations, or portray them in a fashion that is otherwise ham-fisted and/or inconsistent with previous canon works. In SCV the problem is almost the opposite: a time jump that saw most of the regular cast sidelined to make room for shiny tween versions of themselves.

Beyond that, I don't know how you make fanfiction out of SoulCalibur's silly plot when most of it is already written at that amateurish level with very low stakes plot points, rebounding immortal characters with limitless plot armor, and just so much hokiness, pop-fantasy trope-ification, and all around goofiness. If anything, SCV tried to remedy these problems a little by focusing on the stories of a more limited subset of the characters, introducing permanent death for main characters for the first time in the franchise's narrative, and offering some sort of stakes and a sense of resolution to the series' otherwise rinse-and-repeat plot threads. Where Daishi crashed things was in basic game mechanics and aesthetics. And of course, as noted above, the over-all incompleteness of the game--but you have to lay the blame for that on Namco for it's lack of support for that entry, not the work of the developers.

I liked the Soul Calibur being the villain angle...
I'm kind of mixed on that. I'm pretty over the "evil is evil, but good is also evil!" cliche in fantasy storytelling. To make it work, you really need some nuance in your writing, which of course is not something one can reasonably say is a strong suit of this series. But on the other hand, I would argue that there is actually a pretty healthy set-up for this theme that V's writers cleverly leveraged here: I mean, look at what has already happened to the Alexandria clan, prior to the opening to SCV (although, admittedly, some of it is only imparted in SCV itself):

For her heroics in the first couple of games, Sophitia is cursed in a manner that not only threatens to end her own life or corrupt her with malfestation, she also has to live in constant fear for her children, a fear that ultimately sees her forced down a dark path, with absolutely no apparent rescue being attempted by Soulcalibur/the gods who sent her on her quest in the first place. Ultimately she dies in that vain quest to protect her children, who are then separated and then groomed/manipulated by monsters into becoming malignant forces themselves and set on a collusion course with one-another. Then Sophitia's image (and maybe a portion of her essence?) are appropriated to manipulate them further. Meanwhile, her sister, who from an early age takes it upon herself to try to help Sophitia weather this shitstorm, is ultimately forced to challenge her, fails to stop her, and ends up cast out into a void between worlds, where she wanders outside of the normal flow of time and space for who knows how long before she stumbles into a fate where she is bouncing between realities as her mind slowly cracks.

And all of this because of Sophitia's original (as it turns out dubious) decision to answer the call of her supposedly benevolent gods. That's one of the reasons (along with the higher production values and general sense of the plot actually going somewhere and not just setting the next game up for auto-repeat of the same basic plot) that I actually think SCV's story, while surely not narrative gold, is actually struggling towards something we could at least call alright: the good guys actually finally accomplish something that isn't just hitting the reset button. And it's not because of one sword or the other temporarily triumphing, but because the people involved decide to stop playing the game. In a way, it kind of establishes Edge Master as the hero of the saga, because he's the one who engineers the solution that sees both swords banished to the Astral Chaos in an ending that thematically seems to suggest is actually permanent this time. So, generic and goofy as the "too much 'good' is just as bad as too much 'evil' is" plotline may be, it actually ends up feeling much more earned and satisfactory than any other ending in the franchise's over-arching plot.
 
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Aw, what a nice thing to say! (Also ironic in that the three of us spend an inordinate amount of time nitpicking eachother over minor differences in perspective!). For what it's worth I've likewise come to regard you our community's new all-star rookie. ;)
I also wanted to apologize to you guys if I obsess too much over Rock. It's just he's the character I'm hoping the most, considering the leaks of Season 2 are true. I will be over the moon if he's in...
 
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I also wanted to apologize to you guys if I obsess too much over Rock. It's just he's the character I'm hoping the most, considering the leaks are true. I will be over the moon if he's in...
Eh? The leaks are for Setsuka and Hwang, not Rock. Rock would need to be in season three. But yes, Rock is a gentle giant I also love, a pure being who wants nothing more than a safe world for Bangoo to grow up in. I do also want to see his return, along with Aeon, Li Long, and Yun-seong. I feel like I’ll be 3/4 happy if we get a season three.

About the “nitpicking” between the trio, I feel like that’s mostly just banter between friends, giving each other a hard time for the sake of amusement. It’s generally acceptable shots taken and good-natured poking. But I’ll agree that you’re a valued member who raises good ideas and contributes positively to conversations.
 
Eh? The leaks are for Setsuka and Hwang, not Rock. Rock would need to be in season three.
I edited my comment. What I meant was since Setsuka and Hwang are leaked, considering they are coming to Season 2, among the rest of the characters left, Rock is the one I want the most. I didn't say Season 3 because we don't know if it's possible...
 
I edited my comment. What I meant was since Setsuka and Hwang are leaked, considering they are coming to Season 2, among the rest of the characters left, Rock is the one I want the most. I didn't say Season 3 because we don't know if it's possible...
I see. Well I feel his chances are pretty good if we get a season three, but if they want to do things right by the story, Aeon should come first, which if we get another guest, drops Rock to the third position at least, which unfortunately means waiting for a fairly long time to get him. Still, if we do get him, it will be a good day, and we shall praise Okubo by screaming BANGOOOO!!! into the heavens.
 
I want Lizardman to return with his Axe and Shield style because it is truer to his origins, but I feel they may pick the discount kratos because "muh uniqueness".

Also what fuels my excitement for Rock would be seeing him be redeemed like Mina. While Mina has never been "disliked" gameplay wise she's always been in Kilik's shadow. Now she's a menace known to all SC6 players! "You're open!"

I feel that project soul can definitely rectify this if they make Rock DLC! They've done great with everyone so far.
 
I want Lizardman to return with his Axe and Shield style because it is truer to his origins, but I feel they may pick the discount kratos because "muh uniqueness".
I still think the chances of that happening (Aeon with dual axes) are incredibly low. Not zero, because they can do what they want, but the story art showing him clearly with sword and shield is the biggest hint that he would have Xi Sword and Game Shield as his primary weapon, with axes for alternatives, with three of them already teased in-game from Lesser Lizardman (Iron Hatchet, Lunatic, and Meat on the Bone).
 
Taking another guest from the same franchise for the same game doesn’t seem like the best idea.

This.

Although i think Samsho has some of the best characters designs and both the 3 newcomers are quite great in terms of design, won't be bad or PS to take inspirations (but not the over complicated name)


I would argue that the only person I truly nitpick is the creator of Natalie. I love Natalie dearly as you know....and am eternally grateful to her creator!

If DanteSC3 keeps praising SCV he will instinctively return and stamp his feet! Kappa

Wait i thought @DanteSC3 is a girl, i had this idea because one day i see someone refer as "she" lol


I want Lizardman to return with his Axe and Shield style because it is truer to his origins, but I feel they may pick the discount kratos because "muh uniqueness".

Also what fuels my excitement for Rock would be seeing him be redeemed like Mina. While Mina has never been "disliked" gameplay wise she's always been in Kilik's shadow. Now she's a menace known to all SC6 players! "You're open!"

I feel that project soul can definitely rectify this if they make Rock DLC! They've done great with everyone so far.

I want Lizardman mostly because we need a Lizard, i like fighting games to have their roster mostly humans, but it's cool to have few non human exceptions, imo it add some spices and make it even more interesting, of course that non human need to be interesting to begin with, and either Lizardman or Aeon are cool and welcome from my side.

Rock i'm definitely not against, he's cool and the comparison with Mina case is good point, but i don't know if he's enough demand from people overall, but he can be really cool especially if they have a vision for him. For Mina they did awesome job and i make me feel PS really loves the character, like people were asking for Mina to come but nobody was asking Mina to be exactly that way.

I'm also mostly interested to see brand new character that would be as much as cool as the OG cast, my ideas right now are on: And Elf girl, And Aztec warrior based, a Black Muscular woman warrior.
 
I want Lizardman to return with his Axe and Shield style because it is truer to his origins, but I feel they may pick the discount kratos because "muh uniqueness".
I still think the chances of that happening (Aeon with dual axes) are incredibly low. Not zero, because they can do what they want, but the story art showing him clearly with sword and shield is the biggest hint that he would have Xi Sword and Game Shield as his primary weapon, with axes for alternatives, with three of them already teased in-game from Lesser Lizardman (Iron Hatchet, Lunatic, and Meat on the Bone).
I do think it's likely to be a weapon and shield-dominant moveset (really, there was very little difference in the quality of movement between the movesets of Soulcalibur II and III, when the switch between sword and shield took place, but most of the animations remained exactly the same). On the other hand, let's bear in mind that there is a wrinkle here: the generally deeper movesets in this new game and particularly the impact of Soul Charge do leave the door open to some variety here--or more accurately, demand it. Perhaps the creative team will deem it early to dip into the SCV-Aeon thematics and move library, but I wouldn't say its impossible that some of the moves will borrow from it.

I actually hope that's the case: I'm not a stickler for needing the story to justify every little mechanic, so I'd be pretty happy to see him breathing fire in Soul Charge and only in Soul Charge, though I'd just as soon the wings not get involved. I also think from a mechanical point of view that having Aeon's insane wall-combo and high-intricacy/high-reward traits locked behind Soul Charge in some manner could be a really cool way to have a bit of the best of both worlds thing happening without causing the moveset to becomes absurdly high tier. Even having some sort of swap from single to dual axes would be fine by me, though admittedly, that could be very awkward to pull off visually.

Also what fuels my excitement for Rock would be seeing him be redeemed like Mina. While Mina has never been "disliked" gameplay wise she's always been in Kilik's shadow. Now she's a menace known to all SC6 players! "You're open!"
Well, she wasn't in Kilik's shadow in Soul Edge--she is arguably the reason I play these games today, as she was my first ever main. Although that's so long ago now that just contemplating it is making me feel old... As to being disliked, I do remember a fair bit of hate during the SCIV years--but from players who mained here, not those who had to face here: consensus as I recall it was that she was nerfed into absolute uselessness in that game. I couldn't attest myself--I only have concrete memories of Amy ballet, Talim gymnastics and Siegfried blitzes.
 
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Wait i thought @DanteSC3 is a girl, i had this idea because one day i see someone refer as "she" lol
There should be a comma (and maybe the word then) between SCV and he. It would’ve made the sentence make more sense, and maybe prevent the confusion. I had to read the bit twice to see the meaning myself, so I kind of get it, but the “he” is referring to Nyte, not me. If I keep praising SoulCalibur V, then Nyte will instinctively return and stamp his feet, as he has done several times in the past. I certainly don’t have a reason to stamp my feet, neither am I on a sabbatical from which I need to return.

But yes, I am a girl, and I loved SoulCalibur V too much... apparently, it makes some guys uncomfortable. :sc4amy1:
 
I'm also mostly interested to see brand new character that would be as much as cool as the OG cast, my ideas right now are on: And Elf girl, And Aztec warrior based, a Black Muscular woman warrior.
An Aztec character would be pretty cool, although as a historical matter, they'd have limitations on what they could do weapon wise, as traditional mesoamerican cultures had only stone, obsidian and wood weapons--though I think a macuahuitl could be really great for variety. Likewise, in principle, I'd love to see a black woman (or any new character of colour/anyone who isn't Japanese or some variety of Aryan), but as a class, these are not characters that have tended to be treated with grace and sensitivity by Japanese media; what I definitely do not think would be great for this game's reputation is something like this....

Regardless, I think a new original character as DLC at this point is an extremely unlikely outcome, given the limited space and the importance of legacy and guest characters to moving a season pass.
 
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Well, she wasn't in Kilik's shadow in Soul Edge--she is arguably the reason I play these games today, as she was my first ever main. Although that's so long ago now that just contemplating it is making me feel old... As to being disliked, I do remember a fair bit of hate during the SCIV years--but from players who mained here, not those who had to face here: consensus as I recall it was that she was nerfed into absolute uselessness in that game. I couldn't attest myself--I only have concrete memories of Amy ballet, Talim gymnastics and Siegfried blitzes.
Kilik was also not in SoulBlade/SoulEdge, and neither were Astaroth, Maxi or Yun-seong. The point was that SoulCalibur came out, and then the others kind of took over, completely in Maxi’s case, since Li Long didn’t even return. Then SoulCalibur II came out, and Yun-seong eclipsed Hwang, who became a bonus character along with Rock. Rock made a return somehow to main character in SoulCalibur III, but Hwang did not, though Li Long did at least get to become a bonus character. And then they both got the shaft for SoulCalibur IV, though Rock and Mi-na persisted, somehow, before finally getting axed in SoulCalibur V.

Mi-na made a triumphant return in SoulCalibur VI, thankfully, and the hope is that Rock might can do the same. About not liking her in SoulCalibur IV, yes, she was an uphill battle on the likes of Z.W.E.I. in SoulCalibur V, which was bizarre. She had a long range weapon and couldn’t maintain an advantage with it to save her soul. I’ve used her in every game and it’s been a struggle since Kilik’s introduction for her to maintain an edge up until now.
 
Right, but it follows that to have a fair comparison, we should be speaking of a game where they both attended. Rock had his own niche in SoulCalibur IV in his throw game, while Mi-na had... really, nothing, to stack her up against Kilik. Before SoulCalibur VI, aside from SoulBlade, my favorite Mi-na was SoulCalibur III, as she had enough of a split from Kilik to stand out and she remained competitive, though that being said, we both know how awful the competitive scene is in that broken mess of a game, mechanically speaking. They wasted the good Mi-na then, and left her behind afterwards. It was infuriating. I would have loved to have been able to play Arcade Edition to enjoy her properly, though who knows if she got the nerf hammer there or they waited for SoulCalibur IV.
 
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