Ban Hilde

Ban Hilde.

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Alright, someone a while back suggested it might be interesting to take a look at what % of doom combo launchers actually result in RO. So, I've gone ahead and reviewed Ceirnian's matches against Aris. To get a real perspective of how dangerous Hilde actually is, I'm also going to include missed doom combo opportunities, because as players get better it's only going to get worse.

We're going to start with this video.

0:13 - C2BB, C2AA combo. Did not ring out.
0:22 - C3B, 44K, C2BB combo. Ceirnian delays the C2BB too late and whiffs. Would have rung out.
0:34 - C2BB, C2AA combo. Successful ring out.
1:11 - C3B combo. Ceirnian did not attempt any followups. Likely too off-axis to ring out.
1:14 - Missed doom combo opportunity. 1A blocked rather than jumped into C3A, C2BB, C2AA. Would not have rung out.
1:17 - C3A combo. Unable to ringout because Ceirnian had a C3B rather than a C2B ready. Would have rung out.
1:38 - C3B, 44K combo. Did not ringout. C3B, B+K, C2BB, C2AA would have rung out backwards.
1:57 - C3B, 44K combo. Did not ringout, as Ceirnian did not finish the combo. Whole combo would have rung out.
2:04 - C3B, 44K combo. Did not ringout, as Ceirnian mistakenly did C1B rather than C2B. Would have rung out.
2:07 - C3A, C2BB, C2AA combo. Successful ring out.
2:21 - C3A. Unable to complete combo because Ceirnian had a C3B rather than C2B. Would not have rung out.
2:29 - C3B, 44K combo. Did not ringout, C3A whiffed. Cassandra is one of the harder characters to land the C3A on. Would have rung out.
2:37 - C3A. Did not complete combo, would not have rung out.
2:56 - C3A combo. Successful ring out.
3:59 - C3A, C22B, C2AA. Ring out.
4:19 - C3B, 44K combo. Successful ring out.
4:52 - C3A combo. No ring out.
6:07 - FC C2B, 44K combo. Successful ring out.
6:22 - C3A, C2BB, C2AA combo. Successful ring out.

0:31 - C3A combo. No ring out.
0:48 - C3B, 44K combo. No ring out.
1:06 - FC C2B, 44K combo. No ring out.
1:28 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Blocked 1A rather than jumping into a C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA combo. Would not have rung out.
1:33 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Would not have rung out however.
1:54 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
2:13 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
2:22 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Would not have rung out.
2:34 - C3A combo. Would not have rung out.
3:15 - C3A combo. Rung out.
3:35 - C3A combo. Rung out.
3:52 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
4:14 - C3B combo. Did not ring out.
4:38 - C3A combo. Rung out.
4:53 - C3B combo. Rung out.
5:13 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Should have done C3A rather than C3B. Would not have rung out.
5:24 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
5:52 - C2BB, C2AA combo. Did not ring out.
6:04 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
6:43 - C3B, 44K combo. Rung out.

0:46 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
0:58 - C3B, 44K combo. Rung out.
1:19 - C2BB, C3A combo. Rung out.
1:31 - FC C2B, 44K combo. Rung out.
1:57 - C3A combo. Did not ring out.
2:40 - C3B combo. Would have rung out, Ceirnian missed the entire combo.
2:52 - C3B combo. Would not have rung out.
3:23 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Aris whiffed. C3B, B+K, C2BB, C2AA would have rung out.
3:28 - CH FC C3AKB, 44K combo. Did not ring out. CH FC C3AKB, B+K, C2BB, C2AA would have rung out.
3:33 - CH FC C3AKB, 44K combo. Did not ring out, as Ceirnian missed part of the combo. Would have rung out.
3:57 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Should have done C3A instead. Would not have rung out.
4:10 - Missed doom combo opportunity. Could have jumped into a C3A. Would not have rung out.
4:30 - FC C2B, 44K combo. Rung out.
5:01 - Possible missed doom combo opportunity. CH FC C3AKB would have rung out, FC C2B might have been an option. Not sure what level of charge Ceirnian had at this point.
5:26 - C2BB combo. Did not ring out.
6:14 - C2BB combo. Rung out.
6:33 - C3B combo. Did not ring out.
7:00 - C2BB combo. Did not ring out.
7:19 - C2BB combo. Rung out.

Now take a look at all of those, and consider how many of those were player error that would have resulted in a ring out. Then take a look at those, and consider how many of them would have rung out on Wolfkrone Monument, or the Raft, or the Garden, or numerous other stages. The stages those were played on were actually very friendly to Aris, as the moving walls on SW stage often stops Hilde combos, and the other stage is very large and has pillar support.
 
Sponge said:
The results of your lame-ass poll show otherwise.
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Ah, but what you don't realize is that the poll is meaningless. A fun diversion, if you will.

As said earlier, this thread is the main concern, and many have come together to voice their opinions on the matter and come to an agreement.

A collection of the combined voices of the Soul Calibur community in this topic.
 
Organous, this ban talk (binding and character) is completely fair. Obviously Hilde is dominating the tournament scene, it's not like only 2-3 people are winning with her.
 
andur said:
-If your tourny is stick-only, which stick do you use? I can't imagine that they are all equally built, especially any custom or modified sticks that could confer who knows what kind of sneaky advantage (intentional or otherwise). (same goes with any custom or non-standard pads for that matter)
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I'm going to assume that you are simply ignorant to the 2D fighting community? All sticks aren't made equal as there are various parts that can be used. Doesn't mean there aren't standards (ie arcade button layout, no turbo feature)

andur said:
-If it was meant to be played strictly arcade style, where's the arcade version of the game? And wouldn't the game then be bundled with an official stick?
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I don't recall SFIV being bundled with an official stick. It's sold separately. Does GGXX:AC even have a official arcade stick? Those games are obviously meant to be played arcade style. Hell SCIV itself HAS an official stick, granted it's not bundled with the game.

andur said:
-Not everyone likes arcade sticks, just cause you prefer one, doesn't mean everyone else does.
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Again, I assume you're ignorant to the 2D fighting community? Go to a 2D game tourny with a pad and enjoy the stares you get.

The Soul series originated as an arcade game. From Soul Edge to Soul Calibur II the series has had an arcade version which was released before to the console port. It wasn't until SCIII that the console versions began to come first.

Because of the Soul series' arcade origin, I can understand how some would downplay button binding. I, personally, use a stick myself and dislike playing on pads now. However, the fact that SCIV is a console game (ATM at least) with button binding in it's default set up really can't be disputed. Hence, I don't mind button binding (as far as the default is concerned) myself.
 
Shinobi... Soulcalibur is only the ONLY fighting game community that permits people to change their button binds...

Play any other fighting game, and in none of them are you permitted to set any buttons except the basic single inputs.

If a character like Hilde was in other games, the whole idea of multiple button bindings wouldn't even exist.
 
Jaxel, you are showing your ignorance concerning this topic. There are other games that will let you bind your buttons, one of them being Guilty Gear. People had the same arguement about FRC's being 'easy' due to having them on one button. Eventually it was dismissed and I don't think it's really brought up anymore.

In Smash Brothers they let you bind your buttons as well to whatever you feel most comfortable with. In that game there are a few added advantages to binding say, a control stick to B so you can do instant up-b etc moves (One of them being Lucas / Ness having a super big secondary jump if you time a side-b and jump correctly).

In Street fighter I specifically remember people being able to change their binds around in a tounament, Evolution to be exact. I think the same applied to CVS. Anyone know about Marvel and the rest?
 
Soul Calibur was in the arcade for years and this is the only game in the series that doesn't have an arcade version of some kind. So to say this is not a game meant for the arcade is dumb. Consoles were made to recreate the arcade experience in your home. What does online play simulate? Going against someone as you would IN THE ARCADE. The overall arcade scene in the US is dead and that is the only reason this game is not in the arcade.

I don't think you should be allowed to more then 4 buttons mapped period. You're trying to be so good at a game, but its too much work for u to press 2 buttons at the same time? INSANE! But I am reasonable. Normal button mapping is ok, but this stuff with having 2 or 3 A and B buttons is dumb. When you hold a button down, you're not suppose to still have access to it.

The fact that you can not be as effective using Hilde on stick as you would on pad says everything. This coming from someone that plays pad. PS1 pad even.
 
ShinobiBrown said:
I'm going to assume that you are simply ignorant to the 2D fighting community? All sticks aren't made equal as there are various parts that can be used. Doesn't mean there aren't standards (ie arcade button layout, no turbo feature)



I don't recall SFIV being bundled with an official stick. It's sold separately. Does GGXX:AC even have a official arcade stick? Those games are obviously meant to be played arcade style. Hell SCIV itself HAS an official stick, granted it's not bundled with the game.



Again, I assume you're ignorant to the 2D fighting community? Go to a tourny to a 2D game with a pad and enjoy the stares you get.

The Soul series originated as an arcade game. From Soul Edge to Soul Calibur II the series has had an arcade version which was released before to the console port. It wasn't until SCIII that the console versions began to come first.

Because of the Soul series' arcade origin, I can understand how some would downplay button binding. I, personally, use a stick myself and dislike playing on pads now. However, the fact that SCIV is a console game (ATM at least) with button binding in it's default set up really can't be disputed. Hence, I don't mind button binding myself.
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I've never been to a 2D fighting game tournament, so I have absolutely no idea what they are like. There certainly would have to be restrictions on the type of stick you are allowed to have. Are the sticks rigorously inspected beforehand for any unauthorized turbos and other such shenanigans?

I'm well aware of the Soul series' arcade origin. But, that doesn't apply all that much to SC4 itself, since there is no arcade version.

Sounds like showing up with a pad to a 2D tournament could be fun :) Course SF4 has that official special pad for it as well. The last 2D fighters I played were on the Dreamcast (Garou, Last Blade), where we had some special pads that looked similar to the SF4 one (though those were terrible for SC1, the standard controller felt better for it).

I can't really comment on SF4 (never liked the SF series of games) and never tried GGXX:AC.
 
I'm going to make a loop of that. There's nothing better then terrible wall programming in a namco game. Not even puppies and ice cream.
 
The_Realyst said:
Soul Calibur was in the arcade for years and this is the only game in the series that doesn't have an arcade version of some kind. So to say this is not a game meant for the arcade is dumb. Consoles were made to recreate the arcade experience in your home. What does online play simulate? Going against someone as you would IN THE ARCADE. The overall arcade scene in the US is dead and that is the only reason this game is not in the arcade.

I don't think you should be allowed to more then 4 buttons mapped period. You're trying to be so good at a game, but its too much work for u to press 2 buttons at the same time? INSANE! But I am reasonable. Normal button mapping is ok, but this stuff with having 2 or 3 A and B buttons is dumb. When you hold a button down, you're not suppose to still have access to it.

The fact that you can not be as effective using Hilde on stick as you would on pad says everything. This coming from someone that plays pad. PS1 pad even.
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But Soulcalibur IV isn't in arcades. It's a console game, with online play, not a fucking arcade game. It comes with button binds already set, and it allows you to customize them. The game is used on consoles that come with pads, not arcade sticks. Nobody fucking cares about you and fucking ability to flawlessly press multiple buttons at the same time, because I've repeatedly been told that a fucking toddler can simultaneously press buttons on an arcade stick. Unless you want to buy me an arcade stick, I suggest you get with the times and forget your arcade bullshit.
 
all that anyone really seems to have a problem with is that one doom combo, and the fact that its become so ridiculously popular recently probably means that people are going to start seeing it coming from a mile away. kind of like how kilik spammers have ruined a lot of kilik's moves because its so ingrained in so many people on how to handle it.
people do what works. if you're playing in a tournament scene and you are getting hit by the combo consistently and losing, that is your fault. there are a lot of times for EVERY character where if you mess up once, you've lost the game. this one is a little more extreme, but i wouldn't say its unbeatable. in friendly play, be a douchebag responsibly.

she's probably going to get nerfed in the next patch anyway.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
But Soulcalibur IV isn't in arcades. It's a console game, with online play, not a fucking arcade game. It comes with button binds already set, and it allows you to customize them. The game is used on consoles that come with pads, not arcade sticks. Nobody fucking cares about you and fucking ability to flawlessly press multiple buttons at the same time, because I've repeatedly been told that a fucking toddler can simultaneously press buttons on an arcade stick. Unless you want to buy me an arcade stick, I suggest you get with the times and forget your arcade bullshit.
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If you're going to go that far to down play sticks, please never play a 2D fighter or a game that originated in the arcades for that matter. =|
 
Personally, i've been reading this thread. And i'll have to go with Yuan

Take away hilde's binding, and you'll have a toned down hilde. The whole month i was playing with her, i was playing w/o button binds because that's the rule that i always thought. grant it i don't check the forums TOO often. But i was just under the impression that that ruleset carried over from past SC games.

Back to what i was referring to into the other thread about her. She doesn't need to be banned. Until she gets patched, that is just the more than obvious solution for the most part.

What will it do: Bans button BINDING, and not mapping. Which will make players have to change the way they set up their controllers. Of course, they'll bitch. But elite players will adapt and move on. Also, Hilde players will have to change their game style....it sucks. But it needs to be done NOW while the Nats circut is still EARLY....

Why shouldn't it be a possiblity: because it'll prevent the incident when the nats came out for SC3 when dumbass tried to change the ruleset AFTER most of qualifying rounds were over and people that played on console specific characters were told that they had to learn someone completly new. (i think the dude's name was strife....but i can't remember.)

All i'm saying is Ban the binding, not the character if people have THAT much of a problem with it.
 
Even if you wanted to, it's too early to change any rules this late in the game with regionals being played as we speak. Want to ban Hilde? Tough. Wanna re-allow Algol? Tough. Ban advantageous button-binding? Tough. If anything is exploited in regionals or nationals, it's only because the community didn't catch it in time.
 
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