Yoshi versus....

hey code. my only advice for fighting sets is DON'T CROUCH and break B throws lol or half your life will be taken from you (if they complete the combo, which shenrei did CONSISTANTLY lol).

with Asta, I noticed his step pretty much sucked so i try to use 9A+B sparingly. if they get used to it...being air thrown is not fun.

don't really have much Cervy experience. :(
 
Can't give any advice for Ivy and Setsuka right now, but for the other one I can !

Cervantes is quite easy to figure. His long range move are all steppable, so even if someone spam then, just evade and punish them. The only problem against Cervantes is one or two quick low (which I don't remember correctly), except for that. Play normally and it should be fine.

Astaroth has been always big trouble for me, so here some tips to help you a bit lol. Whatever he is at long range or close range, he's not really disavantaged, so if you think getting to close range is your best bet, you are wrong lol. The frame data for this character is really good, so be sure to block and punish at the right moment, cause missing one block could be a hell lot of damage. From my point of view, switch from long range to close range attack constantly to confuse the opponent. Staying close for too long mean a lot of strong throw from him, staying far for too long mean spamming attack with good recovery and damage. 9B+K is good, 9A+B2 is good too to close up the distance, don't abuse it too much though... Anyway, whatever I say would not necessary lead you to a victory but it will sure help !

For now, I didn't fight a really powerful Hilde, so no advice for now... But piece of advice, try to learn the frame data of move that are good to punish, that way you will be close to victory !
 
hey code. my only advice for fighting sets is DON'T CROUCH and break B throws lol or half your life will be taken from you (if they complete the combo, which shenrei did CONSISTANTLY lol).

with Asta, I noticed his step pretty much sucked so i try to use 9A+B sparingly. if they get used to it...being air thrown is not fun.

don't really have much Cervy experience. :(


Can't give any advice for Ivy and Setsuka right now, but for the other one I can !

Cervantes is quite easy to figure. His long range move are all steppable, so even if someone spam then, just evade and punish them. The only problem against Cervantes is one or two quick low (which I don't remember correctly), except for that. Play normally and it should be fine.

Astaroth has been always big trouble for me, so here some tips to help you a bit lol. Whatever he is at long range or close range, he's not really disavantaged, so if you think getting to close range is your best bet, you are wrong lol. The frame data for this character is really good, so be sure to block and punish at the right moment, cause missing one block could be a hell lot of damage. From my point of view, switch from long range to close range attack constantly to confuse the opponent. Staying close for too long mean a lot of strong throw from him, staying far for too long mean spamming attack with good recovery and damage. 9B+K is good, 9A+B2 is good too to close up the distance, don't abuse it too much though... Anyway, whatever I say would not necessary lead you to a victory but it will sure help !

For now, I didn't fight a really powerful Hilde, so no advice for now... But piece of advice, try to learn the frame data of move that are good to punish, that way you will be close to victory !

It depends on if u mean off or online. People do the B throw a LOT more offline with sets because they can just get her normal B throw to do more damage then the umbrella comboed A throw. But she can do massive damage out of B and A throws with her normal B being the weakest option o.O. Sets has a bitch of a throw game... But yes... especially online... don't bother ducking too much. The problem is that I can see with the way you play you are gonna have problems with sets because she is SUPER safe with most of her things. iMCF has to be bated really well against sets...which is annoying -.- 33B shenanigans (which works on and offline well)) is a good start.. Hit if you miss connecting on thefirst two hits, hold the B+K for the "run away" option of the move and reset your position. Neither of you have great range and her 1B B just can rape you ...no matter what character you are... so its best to make sure you get in but don't necessarily STAY there if she were to have frame advantage (that 1BB...leads to 70 damage combos...on NORMAL hit...yea...broke ..lol). Use 66A+B to get in ..but cancel it into a 2k or something almost every time (make only complete it to keep the sets honest and not just attacking the moment they see you start the animation). Yoshi has a lot of unsafe moves to which sets will destroy you for. She's safe...and has great punishes so..I don't blame you for having problems with this one. So I guess the best way of saying this is...also..use AA and BB...Use DGF K if you can react or anticipate a low...grapple...3B launch if you notice they are ducking throws a lot... in short...you have to play safe...very safe... :(

Asty... don't be afraid to use DGF to avoid a throw mix up...random tip..lol. It actually works. A lot of people like his B throw...a LOT. And only his A throw will catch you out of mid-air. So DGF will avoid every throw but A standing...and even then you avoid taking as much damage. And if he misses you get (depending on the type of missed throw) different stuff out of DGF. But otherwise don't stay in any stance..especially superdragonfly...for very long against asty. I agree and disagree with the above statement about asty. You DO want to stay close...about 95% of the time. Everything asty has at distance is guarded or impact on reaction so a good option is to wait for him to make a long range/mid range mistake that you can 8way run, duck, or jump.. then run in and close the distance. Once you are there...stay in his face. If he knocks you down with a throw or something... get back out.. his throw mix on wake is annoying. Then do the same again...wait for a move he shouldn't have used or that you can impact and then rush him. If you are good with your yoshi you can stay in his face and iMCF him out of most of his stuff as well (possible..but dont' recommend against bullrush..lol). Asty is throw heavy..so be good with your throw breaks. And once again...when you get close.... use AA... (BB not AS much...its used if he is starting to duck the AA a LOT). AA/BB shuts down his throw game completely. Once you use AA/BB to make him start blocking then you can start to throw/imcf/tekken move him. Against asty at close range...if you don't know what you should be doing...just AA/BB...lol. (mind you..this is advise when you can actually...fight...the opponent..and its like like a 4 bar where jumping 1A consistently is not a real viable option...1A for asty should ONLY be used on wake or to "hope" for a ringout..online pumps this move's use up WAY too much). So i guess in other words...play safe...kinda like with sets..but for a different reason (throws will take you out of slower/less safe moves...so you have to go with faster safe moves for the most part). Note: trips work well too..especially 234A...because asty is usually either high,linear and slow, or grabby...so this moves takes care of most of that as long as they aren't waiting for the move to low grap u out of

Naizaki must not play any good cervy's if he considers "he's linear at range and only has two good lows" as a blanket statement to say cervy shouldn't be an issue..lol

Naizaki...cervy fucks up yoshi's shit...lol. 3A+B with cervy covers step..if safe..and out ranges almost EVERYTHING yoshi has. A+B gives you a stun break mix-up (meaning even if they break stun you have gained enough of a frame advantage that they are guessing to block low/high...and big combos if they don't break stun). And lucky yoshi has a HARd time punishing a lot of cervy's unsafe stuff because yoshi's best punishers are either A: high or B: too slow. Talking about punishing...cervy gets to DESTROY yoshi on punish. Blocked DGFk? FC 3k? .. cervy gets either A: A+Bbbbb for about 60 damage or so or B: WR A into aK mix-up which can ringout, recombo and overall do a LOT of damage if you guess wrong against it. Yoshi uses a high move? A+B tc gives cervy the advantage. Yoshi uses a mid or high that is punishable? Cervy has one of the best punishers in the game with aB. Linear at range? umm...what moves are you talking about where yoshi can hit him at the same range? Cervy doesn't have to EVER use 4B+K (horrible move usually anyway) or most of his other "long" range stuff against yoshi because yoshi has crappy range. Cervy gets to be at optimum range against yoshi... Ohh...and don't forget he always has iGDR to at the VERY least make you re-think trying to rush in against him at any distance (its also punishes well...but thats for another day). Also... linear? Most of cervy's moves are good,hard or unsteppable mids...or they are highs (like AA or 6A) that he uses for pokes. A defensive cervy is NOT a good match-up for yoshi. stay in pogo/DGF for too long? aa (anyone can do that) but also he gets B2..which is demoralizing as well.. 8A+B and superdragonfly kicks cervy's ass right? Wrong. his 8A+K is fast....FAST. Easy to shoot you out of the sky on reaction if you use it except in wakes..

Now...I'll stop the yoshi hating and being unhelpful to code for a moment here and talk what yoshi DOES have. Yoshi has throw range. Cervy..while its not little t-rex arm lizardman throw range...its not that good while yoshi's is above average. Yoshi actually does more damage out of his throws on average than cervy s well. What does that mean? Throw him a lot? sadly....no..lol. Why? Because cervy has one of the best (and its not all THAT hard to do) ducked throw punish games in the game with fc A+Bbbb. That being said though. If you go in for throws and mix in 33B at close-ish range (3B gets punished by aB...33B..doesn't...at first o.O) you get a 50/50 mix up where you are trading damage fairly with cervy (if he guesses right he either gets 60 damage or 30+ damage and if he guesses wrong then you get a 33B combo of your choice which can lead to into the 60's in damage on average along with good wake options or you get a 50/50 throw to land or be broken). As almost always...imcf can be a savign grace in this match-up if use correctly. If anything..imcf forces an opponent to slow their game down a little..and the fact it is safe can also sometimes make even a good cervy who is punish happy attempt a punish right after you do it which will get them hit my a second imcf...or lead to a free BB for yoshi (aB of cervy is NOT safe on block). Cervy is good defensively and offesnively, but starts to have issues if you play against him...(wait for it!!) SAFE!!! lol. That means a lot of BB. (not AA as much because his A+B...a staple for SURE online..and for some people offline...tc's). Cervy has 1 good low (not two..lol..offline at least... o.O) which is 1k.. but ..

since I am pretty sure you are talking mainly about online code he also has 1A, 3AB to work with. Which can be a pain. Cervy is one of the best online characters in the game and yoshi is going to have EVEN more problems because of it. Taking this lag into account though...he's probably not going to be hitting you out of 8/9A+B on reaction anymore and you get your lagtastic DGF :) mix-ups on him a lot more free than you do offline. But even then I tend to use DFG K as a low counter with yoshi more than anything. Which leads me to the long point of this. Cervy is a defensive monster... and yoshi plays right into his hands if you play "normally" against him. That being said...play defensive back. Cervy is a pretty unsafe character and with his lose of being able to interrupt some of your unblockable moves cuz of online this gives you a good way of starting an offense if you ever feel like you can do so. Offline more so, but online in a good connection all of his lows except 1K are easily punishable by DGF K...so try and do so. You get fc 3k on block i think only if they don't think to duck ...lol..so its not the best option..but..online..it works so..i guess use it??

Honestly this match-up favors cervy considerably since he is not a "high" heavy character and because yoshi doesn't punish crouching opponents well (thats another issue with sets...she fucking tc's EVERYTHING...which makes it so a move that is unsafe normally ends up not getting punished hard with yoshi's 6K2K..yoshi's best punish). But since cervy is unsafe the way he is played online...(offline cervy is a different BEAST compared to online..seriously..but he's a beast in both for sure) you can get punishers to land a lot if you try and be slightly defensive. Sadly I feel like I have to write a completely different opinion given that I know you are talking about online though. But anyway, I'll list the short-shit down below...

online review..
Sets: break B...play safe with BB and AA. Try to use more mids. Yoshi's lows get punished by umbrella and the bitch tech crouches with a bunch of her moves. I was even having hitbox issues with 9k-ing over her lows -.-....Play safe...sorry..but you have to play sets game...not yoshi's

Asty: Keep close when possible...but to get in..wait for a long range "mistake" and rush in. Use imcf (tc ftw) and DGF (unless they use his standing A instead of using mix-ups) to dodge throws. Punish him hard with 6K2K because he doesn't tc that much. Only use dragonfly stuff (9A+B included) on wake or you'll get grabbed against a good asty. 4KB works decently too...get you that little bit of extra distance against him that can be a pain..but don't use very often really... and use 234A to avoid things. Use AA and BB (bb a little less) a lot to stop his throw game from working. And don't be afraid to throw him back after something like a blocked knee (6k).

Cervy: Play defensive and watch for his lows (DFG K those). 33B...generally in any match-up where range or safesty is an issue...is your FRIEND!! And remember... tekken moves or really good in match-ups that force you to play yoshi a way different than you generally want to. Use BB more than AA because he likes to TC a lot. And watch out for his command throw.

Luckily for yoshi..while not great at any type of play style..his huge move list gives him the options to play a number of different ways...and BB and AA are ALWAYS there
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btw... bump much with that post?? lol
 
Anyway, thanks for the correction Gator, but I am still giving advice from my style of play.

Well, I need some tips against defensive opponent. I'm having quite trouble against X and Raph recently (I'm playing online though). So I was wondering what kind of tricks or move should I use move against theses ones when played in defense mode. When I am saying defense mode, it is staying behind, waiting only for punishing my moves.
 
There really isn't too much to turtles (imo). Mix-up throws and 33B B+K (and variations). Abuse the Kunimitsu UB. Build your game from there.
 
Anyway, thanks for the correction Gator, but I am still giving advice from my style of play.

Well, I need some tips against defensive opponent. I'm having quite trouble against X and Raph recently (I'm playing online though). So I was wondering what kind of tricks or move should I use move against theses ones when played in defense mode. When I am saying defense mode, it is staying behind, waiting only for punishing my moves.

I didn't correct your play style. Your play style is your play style. I corrected your assessment of cervy. I assume you don't play as him much since he's not on your list of "characters you play." So either one of his is misreading the other or you meant that you were giving advice from the way you've seen cervy's play. Which is no fault of your own but merely means you are playing bad cervys online (which i know there are a LOT of...TONS...).

Anyway, to answer your question, you said online so thanks for the early on clarification. First off yoshi's unblockables online gain a big advantage compared to offline, so go ahead and use them (its not Ivy unblockable cheap...but its getting there...lol). Also use his tekken moves...a lot. Most of the time you can bait them into attacking you after the 3 second mark impact and counter with the 2 second mark drunken stance (I forget the annotation..). Also at the 4 second mark...if your at a decent range to the person this move has good tracking AND teleports behind them which ESPECIALLY online on a blocking opponent guarantees you a nice chunk of damage and wake-up chances. Online...plus blocking A LOT...means unblockables and grapples (lows as well...but it depends on how much hate mail you want..lol). Try using 66A+B variations into cancels as well as 44B+K into cancels. Go with fc 3k after the 44B+K and either 214A, 2k, or a grapple after the 66A+B variation cancel.

Honestly online you do NOT want to be holding G against yoshi very often because lag makes his DGF stance a bitch. Its hard to block DGF K on any kind of reaction online so most of the time you are force to guess (except in a 5 bar) which is a great 50/50 for yoshi. And you even have the option of pressing 8B+K A while in DGF to stance into SDGF and hit with his A button unblockable (normally can be stepped offline if you get predictable, but online the move is very very very good....).

And you say they like to punish you...well..that leaves probably the best choice of ALL of these for you (depending on how well they know you yoshi BLAH BLAH BLAH)....IMCF!!! Stopping moves early and then pulling out imcf gets counter hits on people ALLLLLLL THE TIME. IMCF, if in a decent online match (good 4 bar or a 5 bar), means you should be getting anywhere from a ringout to 90 or so damage and wake-up game on top of that. An example is 2A+B to go into pogo. Most people expect someone to use that move to go into pogo and then tend to attack either right away or after they see his seemingly slow recovery of lifting his sword back up. But he can do imcf before even being his sword back to "neutral" which leads to you interrupting thier "punishment" with a CH. He has lots of set-ups like this. Anywhere from 6A to B or BB to purposely missing an 8A+B2.

Specifically raph goes high a lot which means imcf EXTRA rapes him. And X players get surprised that you actually have a move that is faster than her lol...
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There really isn't too much to turtles (imo). Mix-up throws and 33B B+K (and variations). Abuse the Kunimitsu UB. Build your game from there.

In case above poster was wondering, the kunimitsu ub is the four second tekken move i was talking about..
 
Also at the 4 second mark...if your at a decent range to the person this move has good tracking...

One correction. Tracking is non-existent on this move or this move would be way too good. =( Doesn't matter, though. Unless the opponent rolls or is godly with their step timing they're gonna get hit. ^_^
 
Thanks for the help ^^ Don't worry, I know the possession fist move, not much used to do it online though... Anyway, iMCF sounds really good if one day I am able to do it, I'll try to focus on that since I know it's good haha.. I know there are not much turtle, but it is getting quite troublesome someone is acting like that against me, probably just not used to it...
 
ahhh...but hajime...we are talking about online :P which is why I said if they are holding block it has tracking...only really to say it takes more than a quick tap up online to dodge it. Online its almost guaranteed on a blocking opponent unless they get lucky and tap u out of it...lol. Offline some of the things I listed just don't hold water..lol. But he asked for online so I obliged :)

And np to naizaki. yea imcf really is THAT good. Its a whole different world of play against a yoshi that can or can't do it. I find myself dumbing myself down online a lot by not using it though sadly because I tend to have weird problems with it ONLINE on a hour to hour basis..lol. So if you do all your playing online you might wanna practice the move online (although offline is always the best place to practice a move, the online timing is always slightly different for just moves). If you see me on and we havea decent connection feel free to holla at me and I can try and get some games in with ya or something. I'm never opposed to helpin' a good natured person out :)
 
hajime, who do you have the most trouble with as yoshi?

personally, i hate mitsurugi. so mentally i have lost before the match has begun against a good mitsu. i just can't figure him out. i don't know when to attack and when to block high or low. i frustrates me to no end.

also ivy. i've only played really good ivy's online which i know is a different beast than offline.
 
hajime, who do you have the most trouble with as yoshi?

I'd have to say Hilde. Mainly Cedric's Hilde. Mostly because I have to deal with watching the clock, thinking about my own game, and thinking about what charges Hilde does and doesn't have. Throw in some good spacing, and playing against Hilde becomes pretty rough mentally. Against other characters I can stick to my own game plan and make minor adjustments based on what they're doing. Against Hilde I have to safely get inside and then apply pressure with respect to potential aGIs from C2A and C3A (Tip: C2A can aGI 9K).

Not just any Hilde can rape Yoshi, though. Only intelligent Hildes. Against charge spamming Hildes you can freely attack after blocking a charge with little or no consequence.

I haven't had any serious problems against the rest of the cast. Because Yoshi has such a big move list, doing well in a match is really about knowing what you can and can't get away with against each character. For example, it becomes a lot more dangerous to use lows (DGF K, 214 A, FC 3K, etc.) against characters who can punish you severely from a crouched position (i.e. Cervy, Setsuka, Sophie, Cassie, etc.).

personally, i hate mitsurugi. so mentally i have lost before the match has begun against a good mitsu. i just can't figure him out. i don't know when to attack and when to block high or low. i frustrates me to no end.

Here's what you can punish some of Mitsu's major moves with. Defending well and then punishing is a big part of beating Mitsu.

1A - Punish with 6K2K.
2KB - 6K2K, 3B, or 4KB.
66BB - 4KB.
RLC - 4KB (6K2K can whiff at max distance).
RLC[A] - 6K2K.
 
How does 66K work for you in this matchup?

Not as well as I would have liked. While 66K has good range, it tends to come up short sometimes against long-range characters like Hilde and Voldo. 3K, 3B, 3AB, and iMCF, thankfully, can cut through the aGIs. 33B is still the strongest way in. Stomp and 9A+B if she doesn't have C3B.
 
33B is indeed the shizzle. I'm surprised stomp works better than 66K. 66K has more range than it. That's somewhat peculiar. I guess you should try to keep doing mini dashes into around 66A range for it to work combined with 33B shit.

Btw 66B+K is decent to get in as well. Does good gauge damage as well, and seems to have jumping and TC frames i it somewhere. not a bad move imo
 
As you've said before, whiffing 66A is painful. Even more so versus Hilde. =( I love the tech traps and combos off 66A_33A, but its range is just a little too short.

Early stomps can jump all her charges but C3B. Same with 9A+B. You just gotta get it out before C2A or C3A get released.

Good point about 66B+K. I'll have to try it out more. TJing against Hilde if she doesn't have C3A is always a good thing.
 
for maxi you honestly need to learn his frame data...but sadly you THEN have to make a weird assumption that you add 2 frames to your move and take away a frame from his move. That way you have the 3-4 frames of lag you get in a connection (generally even a decently good one). Maxi can still be annoying offline at times, but if you know where in his strings to interrupt, you shouldn't be losing very often. ESPECIALLY online where the majority of maxi players know very little about him and pick him because he seems hard to block correctly (which he is..online..and offline if you know nothing about him). So jsut practice where to interrupt with an AA, BB, or imcf and you should be okay. Also, impacting is your friend against MOST ppl, because he loops to similar moves a lot (my recommendation is to use the low impact instead of the "high/mid" impact...good maxi's don't tend to go high much, and the ppl that are maxi that DO go high a lot.. just duck and punish duck and punish duck and PUNNNNNNNNNish).

Sadly i don't know enough about playing X to give a good helpful hint on her, but make sure you know what low grab your opponent likes to use the most. She can combo you HARD if you don't break her low throws right... And watch out for her pull back stab (44b???). So don't always punish right awAY if you know they like to use the move too much. Instead, take a step forward to see what they are gonna do...if they tend to do the pull back, block and punish. If not, you are at neutral frames with the mental edge and can throw or whatever you feel like. Otherwise, keep her at foot/sword tip distance until you wanna bum rush her because you sorta kinda out range her (sorta kinda..lol..sad really..lol). Also I say use 22/88A because its a good distance move that has a tricky imcf follow-up to it if they try to attack too quickly after you use it (or you can block cuz the move is safe..). Like maxi though, learn her distance on moves and learn what you can punish (or at least which of her "staple" moves you can punish). one last tip on the chicky-poo... if you see her start to use her ground pound GB....please duck it or jump into dgf if you can (online makes this hard sometimes...). She gets a guaranteed BB off it if it hits you while you are blocking..not fun.

And for mitsu, what hajime said... but add to that... do NOT fear his stances. mist and relic tend to be mainly high moves, so block low until he finishes what he is doing and when he stance changes, punish him. Also his pokey pokey stuff isn't safe, so punish that. Otherwise your issue is probably his lows. If the opponent is spamming lows offline, it shouldn't be a problem. You can jump them, side step 2kB for good punishment, etc. Online though, your gonna sometimes have to play ...weird...if they are INTELLIGENTLY spamming the lows (meaning mitsu's online mix-up..not just using 90 lows for every 1 mid..). 2 things to do against this. 1... low impact. Most of mitsu's "heavily" used moves are not high, so the low impact when he is out of stance is pretty good against him (although don't abuse it too much, because 1A is slow so it will hit AFTER you start your impact unless you wait a little for it..which is just too annoying online..lol). The other extra option is random abuse of DGF (this stance is sadly just too good online..lol). Spamming lows?? DGF jumps em. online mitsu's next option?? GARPPLE!! but... your in constant tj so... they don't work. You'll get hit by mids, but your taking a risk by staying grounded too so..MHEE...who cares. Its not like he's gonna combo you for 100 damage while in the air. And of course... none of thsi is ALL you can do... a good mitsu player..more importantly ...a good SC4 player... will see if you just use one tactic and be able to findd a way around it/stop using certain moves/start using certain moves. But then again...thats what you want... mitsu to NOT abuse the online lows :)
 
See? No one fears Raphael...;_;......Raphael doesn't give anyone problems ;_;.....we're just too low tier

::cries in corner::
 
lol.. poor fella. Here... I'll write anti-raph just for you. Okay:

So no matter what raph does... step him. If he DIDN'T do a steppable move... step anyway... chacnes are the NEXT move WILL be steppable at which point you punish him for 1/4 or more of his health. Once he is on the ground simply keep him in block stun. And if the match ever gets too close... stop simply stepping and just impact instead. And make sure you can break throws.. he'll be forced to use a LOT of these. If playing him online... watch out... he has some killer lag stuff if you don't know you can step it. That being said... you should be CONSTANTLY stepping so you have nothign to worry about too much anyway. And throw him if he guards too much.

THERE YOU GO :) lol
 
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