Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Actually tribal black skinned barbarian chick is indeed quite cliche but its one that is nonexistent in this game (Rock is more barbaric than tribal and is not from africa). Considering we have other cliched characters she would fit pretty damn well imo (I also like the design of the character in question). There are many more generic characters that are lacking. We have no one from middle East, no one from East Europe, no one from Scandinavia (Groh doesn't feel Scandinavian in any shape or form). If we are ok with a samurai, ninja, Knight then we should be fine with a tribal chick from Africa.
Also we need to keep in mind that they aren't meant to be true representation but rather a generalisation that will make people think that they are indeed from their honeland
 
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Heniek said:
Actually tribal black skinned barbarian chick is quite cliche and one that is nonexistent in this game (Rock is more barbaric than tribal and is not from africa).
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I totally agree but this actually lends more into my boredom with the whole idea. Rock is supposedly part of a Native American tribe, yet there is nothing about him (in my opinion) that is so vibrantly ‘Native American’ that it would set him apart from a tribal African character. He even wears the guise of a Rhino, an animal that isnt natively found anywhere other than Africa and Asia. His aesthetic qualities are so generically “tribal” that it’s impossible to tell where he belongs.

Heniek said:
If we are ok with a samurai, ninja, Knight then we should be fine with a tribal chick from Africa.
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This is true, but only because the samurai, ninja, and knights we have in the game are culturally specific and fit the qualities of their archetype in a clear cut way. If they make a tribal character who, unlike Rock, fits into the rich lore that they’re based in, I’m totally fine with it :)
 
Ave said:
I totally agree but this actually lends more into my boredom with the whole idea. Rock is supposedly part of a Native American tribe, yet there is nothing about him (in my opinion) that is so vibrantly ‘Native American’ that it would set him apart from a tribal African character. He even wears the guise of a Rhino, an animal that isnt natively found anywhere other than Africa and Asia. His aesthetic qualities are so generically “tribal” that it’s impossible to tell where he belongs.


This is true, but only because the samurai, ninja, and knights we have in the game are culturally specific and fit the qualities of their archetype in a clear cut way. If they make a tribal character who, unlike Rock, fits into the rich lore that they’re based in, I’m totally fine with it :)
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Well the rhino head was indeed a pretty odd choice regardless of how good he looked in that costume. But then again iirc he had a costume of a mamooth in one game?
He felt way more native American in SB but that was a long time ago and he indeed could have some other interesting aspects put into his design and weapon and I believe they will probably push those themes further if they will release him

I can understand what you mean but we need to be realistic - most of people will recognise that a ninja or samurai is from Japan or that Knight is from Europe or that Xian is from China. Not many people will see difference between Zulu or a Mali warrior (which are the most well known afaik). As much as it would be interesting to have some more well thought out details, generalisation of such a character is inevitable. Personally I have no problems with that
 
Heniek said:
I can understand what you mean but we need to be realistic - most of people will recognise that a ninja or samurai is from Japan or that Knight is from Europe or that Xian is from China. Not many people will see difference between Zulu or a Mali warrior (which are the most well known afaik). As much as it would be interesting to have some more well thought out details, generalisation of such a character is inevitable. Personally I have no problems with that
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I don’t even want to solely focus on appearance because that doesn’t make up the entirety of the issue. I also want to focus on story elements, their intro and outro dialogue, etc. Taki’s appearance isn’t the only thing that screams ninja (especially since ninja would never really wear bright magenta bodysuits), it’s also the fact that we see her in cutscenes fighting Gel-O-Fury, sealing demons, stalking traitorous ninja, etc. Sophitia prays to her gods before and after fights, she has stages dedicated to her lore and culture.

All these things work together to create compelling characters that, even though they arent hyperrealistic or historically accurate, are believable and deeper than a stereotype.
 
Not a single Soul Calibur character is wearing authentic clothing... in fact none of them are even close to anything resembling authentic. All of the outfits are high fantasy and include modern aesthetics and sensibilities. But because a character is of African descent any character must be completely authentic and not be high fantasy.

There is literally no reason someone of African descent should due to their skin color be given any kind of special treatment above and beyond anyone of any other ethnicity in the game who have gotten no such consideration.

Allow the chick to have as cool a modern high fantasy aesthetic as everyone else. Going too authentic will result in an outfit that does not fit the aesthetics of the rest of the game.

It's high fantasy.
 
Ave said:
are you even reading what I’m saying or are you creating an argument for me so that you can have a rant about whatever you feel like
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Does my response look short enough I could have responded to your last post before finishing it?

Wasn't responding to the most recent post.

I agree with you on the story elements. Just not the forced super authentic restrictions as no one else has anything close to such restrictions. Would rather have a badass female with awesome high fantasy tribal attire than none at all. Especially as it would fit the game more. Plus the advantage of being more fantaasy and not too culturally specific is it opens more fantasy CaS options.

As for story aspects we agree.
 
Ardenwolf said:
Does my response look short enough I could have responded to your last post before finishing it?

Wasn't responding to the most recent post.

I agree with you on the story elements. Just not the forced super authentic restrictions as no one else has anything close to such restrictions. Would rather have a badass female with awesome high fantasy tribal attire than none at all. Especially as it would fit the game more. Plus the advantage of being more fantaasy and not too culturally specific is it opens more fantasy CaS options.

As for story aspects we agree.
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But I have already said in my first reply to you that I’d be completely happy with SC devs adapting a cultural element into this high fantasy landscape they created. My whole point is criticising the notion of boring, uninspired so-called “tribal” wear that, like Rock’s, consists of animal pelts, bones and nothing else. You can hardly call that high fantasy. I would be happy with high fantasy.
 
Ave said:
But I have already said in my first reply to you that I’d be completely happy with SC devs adapting a cultural element into this high fantasy landscape they created. My whole point is criticising the notion of boring, uninspired so-called “tribal” wear that, like Rock’s, consists of animal pelts, bones and nothing else. You can hardly call that high fantasy. I would be happy with high fantasy.
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Rock always struck me more as representing a caveman or norse berzerker than native american. So can agree on Rock being poorly done due being the wrong tribal.

Not that there isn't room for a more european tribal berzerker type. Rock has the wrong background for it.

Without knowing his story thought when first saw him he was some kind of more norse berzerker type that somehow got a hold of a rhino.

So I guess I jumped the gun a bit. I aplogize we agree more than disagree. I'm just super hyper right now so overreacting a bit... ok a lot.

I apologize.
 
Designwise Rock is not that bad. What sells him more to me is the simplicity of his character and the strength he display through animations and sfx. They should push it harder and add some more emphasis on spiritual aspects since that is strongly relatable with native American culture or they could just retcon his origins a bit
 
So many arguments over tribal characters, yet the concept art that spawned it is not even all that cliche to begin with.
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I mean, take a good look at her. High-heeled shoes, lots of buckled straps, Jolly Roger symbolics and a battle saw for a weapon, which reminds me of Northern American Aztec weaponry as opposed to something from Africa, correct me if I'm wrong. She's actually not a tribal trope at all.
 
Ave said:
This is true, but only because the samurai, ninja, and knights we have in the game are culturally specific and fit the qualities of their archetype in a clear cut way. If they make a tribal character who, unlike Rock, fits into the rich lore that they’re based in, I’m totally fine with it :)
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I think you're both right here, honestly. On the one hand, yes--the design, aesthetic, and provenance of the various clothing, armor, and weaponry used in these games (at least as regards the actually historically-derived stuff) is a mish-mash of elements taken from numerous cultures over spans of literally thousands of years, with a further lion's share being either complete fantasy or historical with a fantasy twist. With regard to just about any character's specific outfit (and for that matter, weapon), when compared against when and where they are said to hail from, said outfit and gear is either anachronistic or not something that would have been traditionally found in their culture at any point in the historical past. Even those which have the rough shape of traditional clothing from that time and place seem to be using materials, dyes, patterned textiles and armour composition and contours that make no sense if you don't have your "anime exception" goggles on (which you always need when playing Soul Calibur, obviously).

All of that said, there's definitely still a huge potential for problems here with a "tribal African" character, whether the particular garb is historically accurate or not. And that problem is that Japanese media companies, as a class, do not have the best track record of representing black characters with much sensitivity, whether the setting is historical, fantasy, or (as here) a mixture of the two. On the other hand, you also wouldn't expect a Japanese company to make not just one but four of its classic characters Korean, and yet the Seong clan are not only major characters in the narrative, they are actually treated with some reverence and respect within Soul Claibur cannon. Still, when it comes to a black character who's going to be even vaguely situated as connecting to a historical African culture, I think there's real reason to be worried that we might end up with something similar to this.

On the other hand, Soul Calibur started out a kind of global showcase of historical cultures and weapon arts (highly stylized and fantasy goofball as the representations may be), before taking a hard right turn into full-on fantasy by the time SCIII came about. Personally, I'd welcome a return to that classic formula on new characters being representative of historical real world cultures (especially if the alternative is the likes of Azwel and Groh....), and Africa is at the top of the list of major regions that have zero representation so far. So...if they could thread the needle and make a sensible quasi-historically accurate and respectful design, I'd say an African character would be welcome.
 
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