1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Sacharja said:
Takis 2b:A is i8. Some stance moves might be close as well, but thats not relevant for punishing.

Hildes Ks are solid. Have the same damage problem as her As, but are also decently fast and have solid frames on hit and block.
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I wasn't aware there was such a move under 10 frames.
(Good to know it).
 
This it! Right on the dollar. You feel me, that's as close as you get...
matchupreview3sw9.jpg
 
Kimosabae: I've pretty much stated why (I think) Cervantes is top. Nothing is set in stone, there hasn't been a single major yet so I can only base it off "theory fighter". What I meant by theory fighter was I think Cervantes has a much easier time getting in your head than other chars. I don't think Sophitia can control a match like Cervantes can, simply because of iTP. You whiff a single move, you're gonna get rocked. You rush him down, he'll run away (and be behind you, ready to launch you). The fact is, you are blocking and you just did something you shouldn't do against Cervy: Giving him time to guess and mindfuck you. Also, in SC2, BBB on CH wasn't guaranteed. Kinda stupid huh? I think he is one of those chars who if he HAD a safe, fast low w/guaranteed frame trap damage, he would be more fucked up. 3A,B (JF) is much faster now also. He doesn't have to go low to win. How many other chars can say that? Is he hard to use? Hell yes he is. Anyway, to each his own I guess.

I've read the last few pages several times. I find the Hilde discussion interesting. I have no idea how good she is or bad, so I won't even bother chiming in:)

So uh.....anybody else see Taki as a strong sleeper? I played her for a few hours, put down the stick and was like "Can she really pressure you THAT much?". Thoughts?
 
After playing more against Shen Yuan, I'm convinced that Hilde is top, not just high mid.
Once you get that C3 B juggle down, you'd be ringing out from a full screen away. It's just messed up.

As for Raphael, he has matchup issues. It depends on who's he's up against. Hilde, Yoshi, Voldo is especially terrible. They have safer attacks with more damage and better in-built evasion.
 
ShenRii said:
After playing more against Shen Yuan, I'm convinced that Hilde is top, not just high mid.
Once you get that C3 B juggle down, you'd be ringing out from a full screen away. It's just messed up.
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Wouldn't "top tier" mean that no matter the stage or opponent her game is allways solid? The juggle doesnt work on everyone and not all stages have edges, maybe these things dont matter though i dont really know myself.
 
I think the Shens are overrating Hilde.
I use C B combos as a pro-Hilde argument myself, but lets be rational here.
Night sure wasnt put even remotely near top just because he could ring out your ass from pretty much anywhere on the stage. Same for Kilik (AD) or Ivy (Ring out Cannon).
Sure it does GREAT damage as well, but note how the tops get the same or similar damage MUCH easier. And they have permanent access to those combo starters AND have many strengths in other areas.
Charged As + Charged Bs + Very good safety + solid poking = Mid tier.
If her charges were regular moves that could be spammed and abused, Id put her higher of course.
 
Well the thing is that Hilde does it way better than Nightmare and with safety and more damage.

I think you are overating the fact that the move needs to be charged. She's got tools to mask the charge time.
 
ShenRii said:
Well the thing is that Hilde does it way better than Nightmare and with safety and more damage.

I think you are overating the fact that the move needs to be charged. She's got tools to mask the charge time.
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And while youre masking that charge youll have to rely on a moveset that is not higher mid and especially not top tier material. What I am talking about is the lack of the well-roundedness and overall threat of Hildes gameplay in comparison to actual top tier characters.
 
Yeah a circular mid that's +3 on block and gives knockdown and allows you to repeat it times infinite unless they manage to land a GI which is exactly what you want then to try so you can C3 B.

So low tier, she sucks.
 
Nori said:
So uh.....anybody else see Taki as a strong sleeper? I played her for a few hours, put down the stick and was like "Can she really pressure you THAT much?". Thoughts?
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Yeah, I'd say she's pretty beastly in the right hands.... She requires a lot of mixups since she doesn't have just 1 or 2 combos that do a ton of damage.
 
So who exactly is Hilde better than?
See if you start saying this char is better, then you gonna say which char he/she is better than, someone goes up someone has to go down.
 
SkatanMilla said:
Yeah a circular mid that's +3 on block and gives knockdown and allows you to repeat it times infinite unless they manage to land a GI which is exactly what you want then to try so you can C3 B.

So low tier, she sucks.
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Some things to consider about C2 A (I take it this is the move youre talking about).
3 seconds charge time, so you cant just throw it out and dominate range with it like you want.
Lacking in range, Hilde can only cover so much stepping ground with this.
Not that fast (i20), being used at mid or close-to-midrange its interrupted fairly easy.
Although advantageous on block it leaves Hilde pretty far from her opponent. Trying to interrupt your opponents rush-in with your weak pokes will open you up for whiffpunishers.
You can not center your game around this move as a setup for B charging.

Hilde doesnt suck, but she aint high/top tier either.
 
I think everyone's scared to admit that with a few minor fixes, namco did a decent job of balancing this game out the box.

I mean Rock is a joke (I liken him to Dan from SF series, always there, but alweays a joke), the SW characters seem to intentionally suck and a lot of characters are getting by on flashy gimmicks. If they reduce a few character's Soul Gauge easy mode moves, fix some hit box properties and fix a few glitches, the game will be balanced and good. Already much more of a success than 3.

as for everyone asking me questions, pm me, I don't have the time to go back and read it all today.

cha cha
 
Nori said:
Right now, everybody is in fantasy land and not studying the game. Instead, they go online, read what one person says, and spends time breaking down that char only. Smart players are realizing Yoshi is sick in the right hands. So is Cervantes w/iTP (gonna be hard to convince me he's not the best w/iTP at his disposal)
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Amen. I play against a solid Yoshi nearly everyday, and this man has an answer for every situation in the game. Decently safe, solid pokes, fantastic pressure game, accessible high end damage, and a RO game that puts the fear in a man lol. Then add to that he gobbles up SG, is effective from close and midrange, there's your number 1.

My list:

A:Yoshi, Cervy, Mitsu, Sophi, Amy
B:Cass, Lizzy, Raph, X, Sets, Ivy, Algol Bundy
C: Kilik, Sieg, Nights, Asta, Voldo(he is looking B tier more and more),
D:Talim, Mina, Zas, Tira, Maxi, Hilde, Vader, App, Yun
E: Rock
 
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