1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Early Impression of Teirs...

RedDjinn said:
2a:b cannot be shaken... you should probably not talk because i can tell you arent a high level yoshimitsu.... aight??

and those parlor tricks are yoshis butter, if you know how when and where to use them... they are more than a trick,

Stop telling people things you dont know for sure because you kinda make yourself look bad when you think you know it all and you've been playing seriously for a month....
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wow, you're a prick :).

i'll just wait for you to actually test 2aB before you get too excited about it.
 
this is the most interesting list to date. it should provoke discussion while giving everyone something to think about...


AkazukinChaCha said:
My early Tiers: BASED ON OBSERVED COMPETATIVE PLAY AND APPLICATION. Gimmicks matter right now, as to overbearing high/low/throw mix up games as few will adjust to them early on. I will try to explain each tier allocation.

A: (top) exceptional qualities, saftey, oki, soul gauge abuse and damage

Amy
Sophitia
Yoshimitsu
Cassandra

B: (upper)- Great damage, pressure, mix up game and safety or soul gauge abuse

Lizardman
Mitsurugi
Taki
Siegfried
Raphael


C: (upper mid) solid on damage, pressure, safety, some gimmicks to early abuse

Xianghua
Talim
Cervantes
Algol
Kilik
Setsuka
Ivy

D: (mid) no overbearing features, but solid damage and set ups, reasonable safety/range, often gimmick dependant, lacking at least one major requisite of those above them.

Astaroth
Voldo
Tira
Zasalamel
Nightmare
Yun
Maxi

E: (lower mid) gimmick depenant, poor damage and set ups, no outstanding positives to outweigh negatives

The Apprentice
Darth Vader
Seong Mina
Hilde

F: (bottom tier) huge negatives, inconsistant damage, subpar when compared to peers

Rock
Yoda

==============================================

Discuss. Sure a few could be moved a notch down, but right now I have arguably play more competative matches offline and online than just about anyone, and these are my observations that have held true so far.

cha cha
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Early Impression of Teirs...

RedDjinn said:
Stop telling people things you dont know for sure because you kinda make yourself look bad when you think you know it all and you've been playing seriously for a month....
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The irony on this is astounding.
 
Early Impression of Teirs...

tribaL said:
wow, you're a prick :).

i'll just wait for you to actually test 2aB before you get too excited about it.
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I have tested it... you obviously dont know what your discussing... The stun off the JF MCF causes inescapable stun for 22B, 3AB, a:B+K, 66B combo....

I'm not a prick just letting you know as you did me....

and there is not irony from what i can see.... only irony is cirex seems to find the threads i post in and post the exact opposite of what i say....

and on this subject i can tell you for sure i'm right.... as will anyone else on the Yoshi forums tell you, the stun cant be escaped.... Why dont you actually test it?? Or can you even do 2a:B?
 
RedDjinn said:
Of course i wouldnt rely on them but i'm simply saying if one could master everything yoshi has to offer hes easily the best person in the game....
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Just curious, but would this statement hold true for the rest of the cast? Meaning if someone were to master everything a character could offer, could that character be the best in the game regardless of tier/strength to weakness ratio? Wut do u guys think?
 
kiddSwift said:
Just curious, but would this statement hold true for the rest of the cast? Meaning if someone were to master everything a character could offer, could that character be the best in the game regardless of tier/strength to weakness ratio? Wut do u guys think?
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Nope... this is where the TIER thing would come into effect.... even if one was to master all of say Astaroths moves one who mastered Sophs would most likely win.... better punishment and such...
 
RedDjinn said:
Nope... this is where the TIER thing would come into effect.... even if one was to master all of say Astaroths moves one who mastered Sophs would most likely win.... better punishment and such...
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Gotcha.


For those who've posted up their tier list, have u guys considered the factor of weaknesses being the least exploitable in forming your tier list? Let's take for example Soph. Is part of the reason why she's top tier is because she has very little and/or her weaknesses are less punishable or exploitable than the rest? I just thought about this after Red's reply to my previous question.
 
Excuse me, Yoshi's wakeup game is very much there. It's not as solid as Mitsurugi's, but by the time they catch your mix-up, he does so much damage the round is practically over.

MED A or B, INT A or B if at distance and you expect crouch, CR KKK buffer 14 A to sidestep and keep crouch.

Basically, if you connect with 3A B aB+K 66B and choose correctly whether to hold into INT or move forward to press with MED mixup, or use 6A+K (hold) 4 then correctly choose between 3AB or throw , the round is over.

Literally.

God tier plz.
 
Since everyone else made a list, here's mine.

A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock

EDIT: Later down the road after more tournaments have happened, I wanna know how right and or wrong I am about it.
 
Is Ivy really that great? I hate her stances changes. Having to cycle through them sucks. Being able to buffer some of them into moves is cool but she seems like to much work. Also performing her command throws on an xbox controller is like trying to build a ship in a bottle with a pair of tongs.
 
Oboro said:
Is Ivy really that great? I hate her stances changes. Having to cycle through them sucks. Being able to buffer some of them into moves is cool but she seems like to much work. Also performing her command throws on an xbox controller is like trying to build a ship in a bottle with a pair of tongs.
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I have seen some pretttty good ones.... but I think most people just put her in top tier because of the infinite for now...
 
Rekano said:
Since everyone else made a list, here's mine.

A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock

EDIT: Later down the road after more tournaments have happened, I wanna know how right and or wrong I am about it.
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That's interesting that you put Siegfried in the C tier. Everyone has him on the second level almost wanting to put him in the top tier. Care to elaborate on this a little?
 
Rekano said:
Since everyone else made a list, here's mine.

A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock
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I think that's the truest thing said about Raphael so far. I mean, BB is a nice move (better than his horizontals), but he has a teleport that does practically nothing. This would be so bad if he had other :A:+:K: moves that did something. But, he doesn't. Combine this with moves like 2,8:B:+:K:, and you will come to realize that Raphael is missing a large portion of workable moves. Not to mention that he has only a couple of good lows, most of his good moves land high or mid adding to predictability, and the most of these moves can be sidestepped. Yeah, Raphael is right where he belongs...near the bottom.
 
Rekano said:
Since everyone else made a list, here's mine.

A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock
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Whoa. What in your opinion puts Maxi at the bottom?
 
Rekano said:
Since everyone else made a list, here's mine.

A. Sophie, Mitsu, Ivy, Sets, Yoshi
B. Algol, Cass, Amy, Cervy, Voldo, Lizardman, Xianghua
C. Taki, Asta, Siegfried, Talim, Yun, Apprentice, Raph
D. Hilde, Mina, Zas, Nighty, Maxi, Tira, Rock

EDIT: Later down the road after more tournaments have happened, I wanna know how right and or wrong I am about it.
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Algol to high C, Lizardman to C, Zas to low B, maxi to B, X to high C, Raph to high C, Hilde to low B, Cerv to high C, Sieg to Top B, Nighty to C.

I just have to rewrite one of my own, i have a lot of small corrections.
 
Sorry TribaL, I just tested definitively and Yoshi's CH 2a:b JF stun is unshakable. The easy way to tell is to set the compy to Second Action Guard All and do the move. If the compy remains standing after the stun, it's shakeable, if they fall to the ground before they get up and guard, it's not.


Oh, and RedDjinn, just because you're right doesn't mean you're not a prick :p
 
really those characters are in NO real order(other than a grade catagorey).

HervE : Siggy to me feels much like his SC3 counterpart, that SC3 version had a strong mid/high game and as well as stance stuff. No real reliable ground covering lows (ala SC2 nighty's hellsweep)Flapjack ringing out to the back is a nice edition to his game, but he seems slow outside of B6 and 6A. Unless he has some new frame traps, NCs, or NCCs I don't know about.

Black Dragon: Danger Balls. When Maxi is forced to block and punish, he loses to range, blockstun, and even his own stance game can very well work against him. (See AA on block) If you can keep the pressure up, especially against people who don't fully know Maxi, He is great! Once his holes begin to be exposed, he suddenly becomes an uphill battle.

A tier list in general is part theory fighter, part match ups, and part actual tournament results.

ALL THIS, is just one fat guys opinion.
 
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