Anti-Astaroth

well asty136 (whats with the 136 anyway?) ur right that it is a hard fight for yoshi, but you guys have made it sound impossible..lol. Its kinda like saying sagat is better than ken in the new SF game. Sure ryu is the "higher tier", but its not like you are putting a monkey in the ring with a lion. I've played good astys with my yoshi and it is a pain in the ass, you just have to play with yoshi differently. Same thing when going up against someone like Ivy. Its all about fricken spacing against astaroth really...once you're ready to get in close you need to do so quickly and then do your best to stay in that range. ?And generally speaking 4A+B is a risky move against asty. Now if they are only using straight flying moves and no horizontals..then fine...but thats not most asty's game. If I know someone wants to get in close you better know I'm gonna be throwing out 44A to keep a yoshi back. Up close the problem is having a 50/50 against asty's throw game. Do you duck or do you stay standing hoping he throws out a low grap? That as well as the lovely 6K into oki game. And throw games with both yoshi and asty are killer. They are two of the probably top 4 or 5 throwers in the game along with kilik, rihanna (umbrella bitch...lol...), and rock (cuz without em he's trash).

And winning against an asty just makes me feel that much more special using yoshi because I know the fat bastard (of rock??) had the advantage. I use both, and yoshi is at disadvantage but as long as you throw a lot, trip a lot, don't stand in crouch for long periods of time, keep up the pressure, parry decently at least, TRY and throw break (even if its just pounding B break every time), don't go into your stances unnecessarily (generally a better choice to just stick away from stances except on wake or if at a GOOD distance away from asty), and pull out iMCF when you feel like it (see, while asty CAN punish a BB imcf trap or a 6A trap... more than likely the asty won't bother to try because 6K is a much safer option generally...specially if the yoshi were to then just use BB again...so feel free to not SPAM...but ...USE iMCF). Keep to you're game-plan and make sure your kinda flicking on block every once in a while while you are still at a distance..but move around. That way you are not open to a counter hit but are still keeping asty from destroying your soul gauge completely with his great crush game. Happy golem (I know.. sad huh..) hunting!
 
and lobo...it is very mixed with imcf and bullrush. I just went to trainin to check for you. And it seems its very frame specific. a one frame difference can be the difference from an imcf counter hit and both hitting each other. Another frame and all of a sudden bullrush hits. (note.. this is if he is already in the animation of the bullrush...of course if they both start at about the same time iMCF will rape bullrush..cuz its only i11). And no.. it won't punish after a bullrush because there is a slight push which brings you out of distance for it to hit. Now if they try to hit and not block after bullrush, then imcf will hit. Also, imcf will hit after 6k...but as most of the time an asty will block right after a blocked 6K i don't really see the use of imcf right after...cuz the "tool of the gods" is only viably so on counter.

and personally I find it much easier to throw out a parry and get my 50/50 grapple than to try and time a imcf against bullrush..at even a slight distance..lol.

EDITED FOR BLACKFOX:

unless they are doing that silly charged bullrush into 6k that if you know they are gonna do it is SOO easy to parry... but imcf in that case is also a VERY fun option.
 
lobo said:
wait cant yoshi iMCF the big man both out of bullrush AND as punishment on bullrush...if so i'd say game over for asty except that he gets so many free air throws in the matchup...
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From what I've seen, like Gator said, it pushes Yoshi back too far for IMCF to hit. Now, if Yoshi's back is against the wall, then it's another story.

As for IMCF'ing Asta out of bullrush, I've had that happen to me once I think. I've tied a lot more with it.

GATOR said:
well asty136 (whats with the 136 anyway?) ur right that it is a hard fight for yoshi, but you guys have made it sound impossible..lol. Its kinda like saying sagat is better than ken in the new SF game. Sure ryu is the "higher tier", but its not like you are putting a monkey in the ring with a lion. I've played good astys with my yoshi and it is a pain in the ass, you just have to play with yoshi differently. Same thing when going up against someone like Ivy. Its all about fricken spacing against astaroth really...once you're ready to get in close you need to do so quickly and then do your best to stay in that range. ?And generally speaking 4A+B is a risky move against asty. Now if they are only using straight flying moves and no horizontals..then fine...but thats not most asty's game. If I know someone wants to get in close you better know I'm gonna be throwing out 44A to keep a yoshi back. Up close the problem is having a 50/50 against asty's throw game. Do you duck or do you stay standing hoping he throws out a low grap? That as well as the lovely 6K into oki game. And throw games with both yoshi and asty are killer. They are two of the probably top 4 or 5 throwers in the game along with kilik, rihanna (umbrella bitch...lol...), and rock (cuz without em he's trash).
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The 136 is just an old number I picked up a long time ago. Plus, it's less confusing when people refer to me, and it sounds better than just Astaroth (136 times better to be precise).

And yeah, after looking back, I think I was a little harsh on the matchup, but I was trying to get a point across. Against a great spacer, Yoshi has his hands full.
 
the funny part about spacing is though.. is in a given match.. only 1 of the two people really gets to be "good" at it while the other ends up being "bad" at it. So if you have a good yoshi spacer and a good asty spacer... only one of the two can actually be the "good" one in their match. So its almost a matter of outspacing an opponent than out punchin them or what not..lol
 
Gator, good input, but if you feel you left something out of what you have just stated, try just editing your original post with your additional content in lieu of triple posting. Thanks.
 
First, posts telling people to not post a certain way seem kinda a waste of time..buuuttt..okay. I probably should have at least made it 2 posts at least cuz that single line was kinda a waste. psss... probably a better use of a comment if you at least ALSO made a comment about the topic. just sayin. thanks and welcome :)
 
I'm one of the Mods for this Astaroth forum bro, it's my job to tell you not to triple post. I wasn't saying it to be a jerk, I like most others simply like to read peoples thoughts in one concise post. I agree, I should also post something constructive towards the current discussion, but at this time I really don't have anything to add. Just try not to be so sarcastic in defense of yourself, you make it sound as though I was crucifying you for triple posting, when in truth Gemini Knight and I are really easy-going mods.
 
don't take it that way homes. I have no problem messin around with posts and I kinda assumed u were a mod...a mod or a wanna be, but on these forums I took it for mod. And there was no sarcasm there. It was a thanks in the same manner you said thanks in a "future reference" kind of way. And I was also serious about saying your welcome for editing the posts. So no worries bro we are straight...and a reply post isn't really necessary (although feel free if u want).. I just don't wanna turn this board into a back and forth convo between us instead of it being about the topic..lol.
 
Belial said:
Lol, Asta is among the easiest matchups for yoshi, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. and advice like punish FC 3K with low grab shows just that.

zombie: use stances on wake ups not out in the open. 4A+B, 214A are even stronger against Astaroth than other characters. 66B is a good long range safe TC and FC 3K stops asta from moving around, forcing him to crouch (shuts down all his options) or trying to keep you away which is not hard to deal with if you anticipate). Thus asta will be under constant pressure. Its pretty easy to force your mixups on him. Thanks to iMCF Asta cant even counteratack after blocking your moves. You can just pwn him spamming this. (3A_B+G is crap, both slow and breakable, even if Asta connect this you can still guess right, and if he wiffs it, its big damage) Also Yoshi wake up game is far superior to Asta's. Well. thats not that a bad matchup, but definitely favorable for yoshi. Especially if asta spams variety of throws as suggested above. lol.

jargen: I didnt get what kind of moves you have problems with, but mitsu might be a bit intimidating due to his 1A that asta cant punish. To me this matchup appears relatively equal, maybe with a slight advantage to mitsurugi. If you can name exactly the moves or strategy that gives you trouble i'll help out. Same goes for raph, whats a thrust combo? (4B~prep?)
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I do not play Raph so I cant really pinpoint the combo but its something like :3::B: (stun move) :3::B::B:(Repeatedly)

Mitsu combo was like :(1)::A::2::K::B::(6)::B:
 
I faced another Asta today, and I cried... lol (I had to use Yoda again ftw)
Thank all of you for your input...
A+G rips Yoshi out of most of all his stances. This guy was good at Just Ukemi's and then an instant grab punishment to smash away my wake-up Stance attempts... I caught on and thats what he wanted, now he didn't have to worry about a DRG K_B mix so he could get up in piece. His Ukemi involved a 7_9 direction so I could only catch him with a few moves on wake-up like 11A etc... Yeah, I iMCF him out of Bullrush and managed to pull off a random 1AAAAA just series, but Asta's too strong. My BB at certain ranges causes a slight push back and if he sensed he would've been trapped by iMCF he GI'd it like a pro (yeah don't forget about Asta's GI mixs). I even tried Suicides to finish the match, he'd grab me out of them... It's like Asta can win matches on Grabs, AT, and GI's, and spacing tools... And when you have knowledge and experience of the other characters it seems nigh impossible to defeat THE Astaroth...'
Just nothing I can do except whip out my Yoda...
 
Jargen88: well, sorry I still dont get what you mean... 1A 2KB is not a combo ... so I'll just give some general advice untill you can explain it so that I understand. in your previous post you mentioned an unblockable ...

Mitsu 2KB is punishable with 3B, 2A+K for a lot of damage.
When he does the move that ends in MST stance bullrush will hit him.
punish his unsafe moves with 66B . namely:
RLC B
MST 6BB
33B
MST KB (can also PT inbetween)
66BB
bA (free grab at certain ranges, b/c its a bit hard to punish)
kB
make sure to punish his wiffs properly with 22B4 28B+G

Raph: 3B doest really stun, unless used in combos. A simple solution to his moves is 6AB (into 2A+K) it interrupts all his moves from prep on any starter including 4 and 44A on block, but should you fight a good rapael player you may want to learn to step his prep stance to your left. Also you should really learn the character to know how to fight against him.
 
Prep auto evades highs though...Does the the B of 6AB get him before he can do shadow evade alpha attacks? Also doesn't 3 > Prep A beat 6A for speed?
 
Suriad: prep doesnt auto evade highs neither it has any TC frames.
4 and 44A give the best blockstun, 3 is not a very good transition frame wise though among the most often used. When I mentioned it will interrupt everything that of course meant prep A as well. Only options for raph from there are SEA, or not go into prep/do nothing from prep and punish 6AB that's very unsafe.
 
Uhh..... Prep does auto evade highs if you don't attack while you're in it, iirc. It can manually do that, too, but you already knew that.
 
Dullyana: Raph automatically enters SEA if you do not enter any command and opp is atacking with a high. It is actually I who figured this out and posted in Raph arena, but I somewhat forgot about. Thx for reminder. But you normally will do something from prep, at least thats what causes most trouble for inexperienced player.
 
Belial said:
Dullyana: Raph automatically enters SEA if you do not enter any command and opp is atacking with a high. It is actually I who figured this out and posted in Raph arena, but I somewhat forgot about. Thx for reminder. But you normally will do something from prep, at least thats what causes most trouble for inexperienced player.
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lol, yeah. That's what I meant (Didn't know you found it out though, so props to you for that). And yeah, most sane people do something when they enter prep.
 
Belial said:
Lol, Asta is among the easiest matchups for yoshi, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. and advice like punish FC 3K with low grab shows just that.
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Belial said:
asta: asta only usable throws are command ones. the rest is very situational. (not usable as a mix up definitely) I only point out that most of crap posted so far revolves around taking a defencive mix up in a frame advantage, that alone is enough to cripple entire astaroth game.
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I don't like your attitude, but more importantly, I don't agree with what you say.

I'll speak on the subjects that I do know ... crouch throws are essential in Asta's punish game, tech trap game, and anti-character game. Without crouch throws, Cervy would be a tough fight.

I would say 3A+G a imcf is not a reliable way to deal with Yoshi. But, there is nothing wrong with taking a defensive mixup while having frame advantage because Asta is not too good when at minor advantage but he can sure make you pay for a mistake. I wonder where you get the idea that it cripples Asta's entire game.
 
Foxbot: Getting a free unpunishable low grap attempt like in tech traps or punishment is fine. Or taking a RO chance. whatever.

I got that idea doing a simple math. Any character game would be crippled if forced to take a defencive mix in advantage where a mistake cost you 1/3 life bar. Try dealing with 2b:A/214A first. Every additional condition to forcing a mix up greatly lowers its reward ratio and increases the risk. given the damage on iMCF thats next to impossible to get a risk/reward a positive number.
 
i agree with foxbot, ALL of astas throws at important for the reasons he listed and i will also say 3a+g_b+g is very gimmicky but can work if used very very sparingly (as with anything really).

i feel yoshi is somewhere around neutral-good for asta because of how he can deal with his stuff and the extra tools he has... for example astas A grab will air grab yoshi out DGRG and FLE. this should discourage yoshi from doing too many stances in astas face. the yoshi player also has to really be careful in SDRG because of 28:b+g. of course it it doesnt mean yoshi eat all of it but he has to be very careful with what he does and it cuts out the stance mind games somewhat.

also asta gets sort sort of throw punishment with most of yoshi's main low mixups, FC 3k, REF A, DRG K etc.

imcf is dangerous indeed, but that relies on asta being aggresive and in range... im going to be spacing vs yoshi and getting the hell out. whoever said imcf can punish 66k and 4b is totally wrong, its no where near in range after pushback.
 
* But iMCF can interrupt.
Yeah, spacing is crucial against Yoshi, but this isn't an anti-Yoshi thread...
Getting Yoshi back in requires patience, and the right attack at the right time... (just like every character)
44B+K_MED 2A+B_66A+B_(maybe) 22K_4KB (I don't like this attack because of 4K misleading range)_ST3_T0 - are all able to close the range gap however risky they may be, these attacks are what come to mind esp. 66A+B...
iMCF_4A+B_T4_T2_T6_9B+KB+K_*AA_*BB_*3K are good for dodging/ interrupting Asta's attacks...
I'm sure there are other attacks to aid Yoshi in this situation (just can't think of them all)...
If Asta's A+G didn't have tracking, FLE 22_88 would be amazing but Yoshi just gets ripped out of it for around 55-60 damage + all Asta's tech and mind games... and FLE 2A+K is quick to time against Asta's superior A+G, he can grab between digs... :(
Yoshi could use a better 2A also (even though he doesn't need it, it would help)...
Any more advice?
 
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