Anti-Astaroth

ojste said:
if people don't duck against you and you 'need' your opponents to duck then don't you technically havea problem with everyone? how do you beat others? asta just punishes blocked lows harder than others (except maybe the likes of soph) but remember its still only 50/50.
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I get nearly everybody I play to duck. That's why I have only gotten less than 2nd place at 1 tourney. Cervantes can whore out 1k against most of the cast, however, as stated above, Asta can take off 65 damage if he blocks it. Therefore, it's not worth using as much, so opponents know now they don't have to duck as much, which makes 3B useless if the Asta knows how to space. 4A/A, B/A+B are excellent to keep a step happy person away w/Asta, and if you eat enough of those on CH, you tend to respect Asta more.
 
I really can't comment much about the Cervy matchup by virtue of location and lack of competition, but I can say this:

You don't want to get in on Astaroth if you cannot keep constant pressure in his face. Throws and Bullrush mixups will come out more times than not.

You could try to keep Asta out, but if you do, acknowledge his range/anti step moves and deal with them. His A+B does both, but if you can see it coming, then you should GI it on reaction, and if you can see 4A coming, that's even better. If you can try to make Asta come to you due to the fact that you can deal with his range and anti step moves, then you can have an easier time to move around him, because Asta shouldn't be trying to take risks at mid range.

Nori: Hates is as Cervy as you are, and he still plays Asta to a point. What does he have to say about the matchup?
 
The only problem I used to have with Astaroth is his fucking bull rushes.
Fighting LefthandLead pretty much forced me to adapt to it if I ever was going to beat him, eventually I did.
I started GI and JI-ing the charges, and then coming back with a grab (using setsuka) to throw them on the ground, then A+K~B to pick them up and then crack 'em mid-air with her 3aB.

Hm, if you're having problems with Astaroth then the best I can tell you is fight with either KurisuKappsu or Lefthandlead. Kurisukappsu is learning from Lefthandlead, He's a quite a bit slower with his astaroth but he has a good grab game. If you can continue to avoid his grabs, you can avoid any astaroth's grabs.
 
Noob alert, maybe.

OK, so Astaroth has me prone at close range. He does that stomp thing that pops me up into the air and then pulls his air Throw. Tosses me to middle distance, crumpled, and then I pretty much eat whatever he's got in store next.

OK yeah I know that I shouldn't let this situation get set up in the first place. And I usually don't. But I haven't figured out yet: where in this whole process, once it has started, are my options? Can I low-guard to avoid the stomp-popup? Can I avoid or deflect the Air Throw at all? Once thrown, is there a way to better 'recover' my character to avoid the next attack?

I'm only a L50 online. Astaroths aren't giving me much trouble overall, although I wish I saw more of them, 'cuz I dig on fighting against Astaroth, he's a fun challenge. I'm asking mostly out of pure curiousity. Sorry I'm too dumb and/or lazy to figure it out myself, but hey, that's why I love 8WR. You guys know everything.

End Noob Alert. Stand down, troops.
 
Once he pops you up you can't escape the air throw. On recovery from an attack, if you're in a tech situation, you can do nothing to block 2B+K, also though you might be able to tech away fast enough depending on how you were knocked down. His most popular ways to force you into a tech recovery(like CH 6K) typically don't allow escape.

If you're lying on the floor normally you can prevent getting hit with 2B+K with standing block. Be warned he still has the ability to grab faster than you can interrupt so you must guess high or low A or B or that he wont do anything. Low block will keep you from getting tossed up, but you'll still be hit and forced to crouch and if the asta thinks you will have done this he can get a free low throw attempt. So the better option here is standing guard.

After you get knocked away you're "safe", specifically he can't force any more damage or guessing games on you unless you let him.
 
Laswagga said:
The only problem I used to have with Astaroth is his fucking bull rushes.
Fighting LefthandLead pretty much forced me to adapt to it if I ever was going to beat him, eventually I did.
I started GI and JI-ing the charges, and then coming back with a grab (using setsuka) to throw them on the ground, then A+K~B to pick them up and then crack 'em mid-air with her 3aB.

Hm, if you're having problems with Astaroth then the best I can tell you is fight with either KurisuKappsu or Lefthandlead. Kurisukappsu is learning from Lefthandlead, He's a quite a bit slower with his astaroth but he has a good grab game. If you can continue to avoid his grabs, you can avoid any astaroth's grabs.
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be careful with GI'ing bullrush. If he gets wise to it and delays, you could very well eat a fully charged one and close range, which at best can lead to an A+G airthrow and Worst for you a 28BG or AG wallsplat into a crouchthrow attempt.

Its better to step it if at all possible.
 
it kinda depends which way he does it, since both 22b and 88b has opposite animations but generally speaking its easy to step.

3b is the one to worry about, you wanna step right for that.
 
3B is only threatening when you're coming off the ground which is when he should be using it, otherwise....you should just poke him out of it seriously...cuz fuck around and step the wrong direction accidently isn't sexy.

22B is steppable in both directions depending on the situation u're in.

Best advice i can give vs Astaroth is play aggressively and constantly use a strong fast TC mid move if your character has one. For me it'll be Maxi's 1B.
 
it is indeed good when used in that situation but if you are trying to poke him out of it then you're gambling with the charge which is exactly how it is used and exactly what asta whats you to do :p

trying to poke it is more dangerous than trying to step in right direction imo...
 
hmm maybe i'm doing it all wrong. since the specific case i'm referring to is stepping it online lol
 
The character that gives me most problems are Mitsu and Raph

I most of the time (or next to all the time) fall for the low kick hit right after and then eat and unblockable

The best thing to do is an uncharged bottom swing (:1::A:). then when he gets up bull rush and make him eat dirt.

Raph is annoying for his long thrusting combo. Though he does not have good lows which make him a little easier.

If any of u have tips for me, by all means shout em out
 
Ahh, I chose Yoshi over Asta!!! And now Asta is most difficult for me to takedown!!! He can throw me out of all my stances, he keeps me grounded most of the time and I'm forced to guess his pressuring mix-ups... It seems like there is no chance on anti-Asta for me other than choosing a different character... The way he can space and control distance is key aswell because I can't punish with iMCF if he's too far away... I'm forced to a couple moves to keep the punishment and pressure on him, each move's use can be duely noted by any experienced Asta... I need major help, please PM me with any suggestions (besides choosing a new character)... Thanks
 
Yoshi can have problem with anyone with huge range if you have problems keeping close. Just make sure against asty that you use his close-in moves (such as 66A+B) if you do something that knocks him away. That way you can keep up your pressure. Also GI can be very important if its a good asty player. Nother thing that helps whenever you have problems against any character is learn how to play the character yourself. That way when you see an animation you have beeter knowledge of what the next part of the move is probably gonna be, which leads to a great impact/duck/side-step opportunity. Also, you can't live and die by iMCF. Long range characters have to be dealt with differently with yoshi. Another one that at least for a round or two will catch an asty off guard is to pull out MED 2A+B and then getting a hit on them from behind. Also generally another thing about asty is that in close range people tend to grapple... .. a LOT. Which means sometimes the best thing to do when in close range is to just throw out a few BB or AA (as well as yoshi's iFC K and other such tripping moves)..and feel free to throw your own throws out a LOT in close range. The most important thing against asty is keeping lots of pressure on him. After that is probably knowing his move set (its limited so thats not a problem). And finally grapple breaking. "pro" asty use B grapples a LOT. While non-pro tend to just run up and use A grapples...so just know the type of person you are playing.
 
Astaroth is totally disgusting versus yoshi, just simply by virtue of the fact that yoshi's best moves are FC. If you can smell an iMCF coming (though against a good yoshi player it's tough) you can TJ that with 3A+G_B+G for a pretty brutal mixup and scare yoshi from doing alot of his best moves. Yoshi should stick to punishment options with 6K2K but that can also be stuffed very well with astaroth's use of 4A and other mid-long range anti-step options. But battling against Asta is an uphill battle for yoshi. I'd venture to say Asta is one of yoshi's worst match-ups. BTW random DGF is a BIG nono versus Asta. Just throwing that out there.
 
Yeah, let's look at the things Asta shuts down in Yoshi's game.

Dragonfly/Super Dragonfly stance - Like Pyro said, this ends terribly for Yoshi as Astaroth can simply 28:B+G or A+G. These options are either damaging or lead to nice mixup opportunities for Astaroth.

Meditation stance - Simply put, 2A_B+G can easily catch Yoshi before he disappears after spinning. Not only that, 22_88B4 can get the job done from mid-range.

Flea stance - Yoshi certainly can't hop around because of 28:B+G. Even when sitting still in this stance, can't Yoshi be caught?

IMCF spam - Pyro's right on this one too. An easy frame trap for Yoshi is B,B (on block), IMCF. A simple 3A_B+G jumps the IMCF and punishes. However, the hard part is predicting IMCF, especially against high level players.

Earslicer - With the threat of bullrush, I don't see how Yoshi's a:B+K could be useful.

FC 3K - This can be punished by low grabs IIRC.

Jumping unblockables (8A+B2, 236B, 4A+K) - There are some nice traps featuring some of these unblockables, but Yoshi users have to be cautious using these around Astaroth.

Um, yeah, Yoshi doesn't have too many options in this matchup. Even after that, most of what's left can be killed by 6B+K. So that mainly leaves kicks and a few "forward-thrusting stabs."
 
Lol, Asta is among the easiest matchups for yoshi, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. and advice like punish FC 3K with low grab shows just that.

zombie: use stances on wake ups not out in the open. 4A+B, 214A are even stronger against Astaroth than other characters. 66B is a good long range safe TC and FC 3K stops asta from moving around, forcing him to crouch (shuts down all his options) or trying to keep you away which is not hard to deal with if you anticipate). Thus asta will be under constant pressure. Its pretty easy to force your mixups on him. Thanks to iMCF Asta cant even counteratack after blocking your moves. You can just pwn him spamming this. (3A_B+G is crap, both slow and breakable, even if Asta connect this you can still guess right, and if he wiffs it, its big damage) Also Yoshi wake up game is far superior to Asta's. Well. thats not that a bad matchup, but definitely favorable for yoshi. Especially if asta spams variety of throws as suggested above. lol.

jargen: I didnt get what kind of moves you have problems with, but mitsu might be a bit intimidating due to his 1A that asta cant punish. To me this matchup appears relatively equal, maybe with a slight advantage to mitsurugi. If you can name exactly the moves or strategy that gives you trouble i'll help out. Same goes for raph, whats a thrust combo? (4B~prep?)
 
Belial said:
Lol, Asta is among the easiest matchups for yoshi, you guys have no idea what you're talking about. and advice like punish FC 3K with low grab shows just that.

zombie: use stances on wake ups not out in the open. 4A+B, 214A are even stronger against Astaroth than other characters. 66B is a good long range safe TC and FC 3K stops asta from moving around, forcing him to crouch (shuts down all his options) or trying to keep you away which is not hard to deal with if you anticipate). Thus asta will be under constant pressure. Its pretty easy to force your mixups on him. Thanks to iMCF Asta cant even counteratack after blocking your moves. You can just pwn him spamming this. (3A_B+G is crap, both slow and breakable, even if Asta connect this you can still guess right, and if he wiffs it, its big damage) Also Yoshi wake up game is far superior to Asta's. Well. thats not that a bad matchup, but definitely favorable for yoshi. Especially if asta spams variety of throws as suggested above. lol.

jargen: I didnt get what kind of moves you have problems with, but mitsu might be a bit intimidating due to his 1A that asta cant punish. To me this matchup appears relatively equal, maybe with a slight advantage to mitsurugi. If you can name exactly the moves or strategy that gives you trouble i'll help out. Same goes for raph, whats a thrust combo? (4B~prep?)
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You've obviously never fought a good Astaroth with Yoshi have you? Do you even use Yoshi? In fact, nearly all of your posts are in the MITSU section, so why are you in here? I've heard Yoshi users say it's a hard fight, while Asta users say it's an easy fight. I use Yoshi AND Astaroth, and I think it's an easy fight for the big guy.

You're really against throws too. Astaroth's game revolves around throws. All together, he has over 16 throws/attack-throws. That's like using Zangief in Street Fighter and refusing to use throws...

Also, Asta CAN in fact punish Mitsu's 1A with 2K. Go back to 2K,B land.
 
wait cant yoshi iMCF the big man both out of bullrush AND as punishment on bullrush...if so i'd say game over for asty except that he gets so many free air throws in the matchup...
 
asta: asta only usable throws are command ones. the rest is very situational. (not usable as a mix up definitely) I only point out that most of crap posted so far revolves around taking a defencive mix up in a frame advantage, that alone is enough to cripple entire astaroth game.
Also listen to lobo, he speaks the truth.

lobo: yes and same goes for 4B i think.
 
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