asta block punishment list

ojste

ojste

[09] Warrior
this thread is for everything asta can punish on block. basically anything with block advantage -12 or lower can be punished by asta. i17 or lower is where the damage racks up (63214:b+g/66b). all punishments listed are usually max damage. these have all been tested and pushback from moves are accounted for, which is why sometimes you see stuff like 66b instead of throws although they are the same speed.

reference for asta's attack speed:
i12 6A / BT B+K
i15 K / 2K / FC K
i16 4B
i17 A_B+G / 63214A_B+G / 66B / 6K / WS K / BT K
i18 3K / 66K / FC 3K
i19 3A / 4K / 33_99K / BT A_B+G / BT 2K
i20 4A / 22_88A / B / WS B
i21 A / 6B / 4A+B / 6B+K
i22 66A / 33_99A / 44A / 44K / 11_77K / 3A+B / B+K / 2B+K
i23 BT 2A
i24 2B / BT A
i25 3B / BT 2B
Click to expand...

BLOCK PUNISHMENT LIST
**if you are worried about throws being broken then replace all command throws with 66b (they are both i17). for anyone who still doesn't know, JF throws have a much smaller break window, and of course you can mix it up with 63214:b+g_a+g. abuse it!**



--MITSURUGI--

2KB - 3b, 2a+k / 63214:b+g
6B - 63214:b+g
b:A - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
k:B - 63214:b+g
1K - low grab
A+B - 66b (close)
66bb - 66b
MST 6bb - 66b
MST kb - 66b
MST bkb - 66b
RLC B - 66b
RLC A - 4b
FC 1B - k
1a - 2k
3B - k
33_99B - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)

**stance transitions** block punishment listed will beat out his following options unless stated otherwise.

transitions into ~RLC (4b+k) - you have to do all these really fast... probs better off waiting and punishing.
MST 6~RLC - 2a (RLC a wont hit unless really close)
11[k]~RLC - 2k
6[a]~RLC - 2k
33[a]~RLC - 2k
RLC [k]~RLC - 2k
MST bb~RLC - 2a

transitions into ~MST (6b+k)
4[a]~MST - 66k
RLC [a]~MST - 66k
11b[a]~MST - 66k
MST 4b~MST - 66k
44b~MST - 66k



--SOPHITIA--

236b - 63214:b+g
236k - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
236236aa - low grab
1aa - 63214:b+g
66k - k
3a+b - k
3b - 66b
4k - 6a
wsb+k - 6a
44b - 6a
66b+kba - k



--SETSUKA--

aB - k
6aa - k
agB - 63214:b+g
umbrella - 66b
bA - 63214:b+g (close) / ab (far) / b+k (far)
6k - 6a
2k - low grab
11a - low grab
11k - low grab
1aa - 63214:b+g
1a:a - 3b, 2a+k



--AMY--

1a - 63214:b+g
4a - 63214:b+g
6bbb_236bbbbb - k
1b - 63214:b+g
FC 3b - k
FC 1b - 63214:b+g
2k - low grab
2a+b - low grab
2b+k - low grab
4b+kb - k
44b - 66b
66b+k - 66b
236kk - 6b



--ASTAROTH--

6ab - 63214:b+g
2a - low grab
1b - low grab
2k - low grab
33a - 6a
44a - k
22b4 - 66b
6k - 6a
a+b - 66b
4kk - 63214:b+g
4a+b - 63214:b+g
6b+k - k
WSk - k



--CERVANTES--

aB - 63214:b+g
3ab - 63214:b+g
WSa - 63214:b+g
a+b - 63214:b+g
bb - k
bbb - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
3b - 6a
1b - 6a (close)
WSbb - low grab
2k - low grab
1k - low grab
1a - low grab
421kB - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
GDR - 63214:b+g
iGDR - throw (free back throw lol)
6a+bb - 66b
2a+b - low grab
8a+b - low grab
FCa+b - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
2b+k - 2k
2[b+k] - 63214:b+g
8b+k - 4b
66a - 6a
11aa - 63214:b+g
44aBb - 66b
66b - k
66a+b - 66b
214a+k - low grab



--SIEGFRIED--

1AA - 4b
WS AA - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
6B - 66b (close, safe at max range)
1B - 4b (close)
3KKB - 4b
6K - 6a
1K - low grab
BT 2K - low grab
A+kAAB - 66b
A+KA2AA - 63214:b+g
66B - low grab (close), 66k (far)
44BB - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
FC 2A+G_B+G - low grab
SBH K - 63214:b+g
SRSH A - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
SRSH b - 63214:b+g
SSH AA - 4b

**stance transitions** block punishment listed will beat out his following options except in some cases where he evades with 2b+k (goes back into ~SCH).

transitions into ~SCH (2_8b+k)
3~SCH - 6ab
A+KA[A]~SSH - 6ab
BB~SCH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
11~SCH - 6ab

transitions into ~SBH (b+k)
SCH k~SBH - 6k
SCH k~SBH - 6k
2[a+b]~SBH - 6k
SRSH [A]~SBH - 6k
AA~SBH - 6k
2~SBH - 6k
~SBH - 2k
SSH ~SBH - 2k (will beat everything except 2b+k)

transitions into ~SSH (4b+k)
[A]~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
6[A]~SSH - 66k
WS[A]~SSH - 66k
A+B~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
22~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except a+b)

transitions into ~SRSH (6b+k)
4[A]~SRSH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
SRSH [k]~SRSH - 6k
44[A]~SRSH - 6k
88~SRSH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
SSH[A]~SRSH - 6k



--NIGHTMARE--

aab - 66b
a,2aa - 63214:b+g
6a - 66b (close)
3a - 63214:b+g
3a2a - 63214:b+g
2a - low grab / 66k
1a - 63214:b+g
22_88ab - 63214:b+g
bbb - 63214:b+g
bA - 66b
6b - 66b
6B:B - 66k (close)
3B - 6a
22_88B - low grab (close)
11_77B - 63214:b+g
44B,B - 66k
1K - low grab
a+b - 66b
3A+b - 66b
2A+B - 63214:b+g (close), 66b (far)
66A+B - low grab
A+K - 63214:b+g
WS A,A - 63214:b+g
FC A - low grab
FC 3B - 63214:b+g (close), 66b (far)
FC K - low grab
FC A_B+G - low grab / FC 3k
BT 2K - low grab / FC 3k
GS A - 63214:b+g
GS B - 66b
GS A+B - 63214:b+g
NSS B - 63214:b+g (close), 66b (far)
NSS b:A - 63214:b+g
NSS K 63214:b+g
NSS A+B - 63214:b+g

**stance transitions** block punishment listed will beat out his following options unless stated otherwise.

transitions into ~GS (236)
1A6~GS - 63214:b+g
bA6~GS - 63214:b+g
33_99B6~GS - 66k (can be GI'ed if they delay GS A)
66K6~GS - 66k (can be GI'ed if they delay GS A)
22_88K6~GS - FC 3k (can be GI'ed if they delay GS A)
WS A,A6~GS - 63214:b+g
GS B6~GS - 2k

transitions into ~NSS (b+k)
[A]~NSS - 6b+k
[aB]~NSS - 6b+k
3~NSS - 6ab / FC 3k
1~NSS - 6b+k
44B,~NSS - 66k
WS ~NSS - 6b+k
GS ~NSS - 66k
NSS [A]~NSS - 66k /6b+k




hopefully this info will add to asta's already sick damage potential. feel free to help out and add to the list as there are many chars im not totally comfortable with. anyone can test though really, just check the relative frame data on the soul arenas for block advantage -12 or lower and start testing :p.

this post will be updated as new info is comes up.
 
You know you cant really punish with a Throw, right?

Throws can be broken, no matter whether your opponent is in recovery or something else.

So if you wanna _punish_ Mitsus 2KB you gotta do 66K for example, there is nothing he can do about it, but if you Throw him he can break the Throw, thats not what we call punishing. Its more like a Setup.
 
im fully aware of that, however we are talking about JF throws and then you can still mix it up with 63214:b+g_a+g. the chance of it being broken is much slimmer than you think. ALL command throws can be replaced by 66b if you want guaranteed damage. i will add this to the first post now :)

asta can and should punish with JF throws imo. i would have agreed with you if we were talking about any other character.
 
ojste, you have read my mind.

I was about to ask about making a punishment list. I have made punishment lists before in Tekken, and it helped me out alot when recognizing attacks and how to deal with them. If you don't mind double checking between what is different between the 1.01 and the 1.03, I can be of help.
 
Why even use 66B anymore for block punish? Thing is so slow now might as well 6K into a mixup most of the time.

6K should be his main block punisher from crouch block AND standing block in this game.
 
ug so many stickies!...well there is so much great info. thanks for the great post ojste.

so much love for the big man...
 
Tiamat said:
Why even use 66B anymore for block punish? Thing is so slow now might as well 6K into a mixup most of the time.

6K should be his main block punisher from crouch block AND standing block in this game.
Click to expand...

66b and 6k are the same speed and 66b is way more damage than 6k. the only advantage 6k has over 66b as punishment is ~2 extra frames on hit at the expense of damage.

6k is good for one thing only and thats CH fishing and none of it will be CH with block punishment...

GEMINI_KNIGHT said:
ojste, you have read my mind.

I was about to ask about making a punishment list. I have made punishment lists before in Tekken, and it helped me out alot when recognizing attacks and how to deal with them. If you don't mind double checking between what is different between the 1.01 and the 1.03, I can be of help.
Click to expand...

yea post up any info you got, ill try and test as much as i can :)
 
All I know is that you can't punish NM's GS A with 66B, but you can punish it with 6K.

what are the hitframes for 66B anyway? it feels negative on hit
 
Tiamat said:
All I know is that you can't punish NM's GS A with 66B, but you can punish it with 6K.

what are the hitframes for 66B anyway? it feels negative on hit
Click to expand...

6K (i17)
B -14~-13
H +4~5 (18 dmg)

66B (i17)
B -12~-11
H1 +2 (33 dmg)
H2 +2~3 (45 dmg)

i added in NH damage and impact speed as well for comparison.

i also just tested nightmare GS A for about 20 mins and my findings were little surprising...

GS A can be punished by 6k, 66b and 63214:b+g (all the i17 stuff) but when blocked at max range, i17 is too slow which is confirmed by NM's frame data: GS A is -16 when blocked at max range and -17 when up close.

the weird part is i then tried 33b, GS A and none of the i17 or i16 punishment worked, fastest thing i could hit with was i15 k. but i then tried i17 stuff with mitsu/yoshi/sieg and they all worked fine after 33b, GS A. must be specific to asta o_O...

not hugely important as i bullrush after 33b anyway but still :/
 
awesome find indeed, thats some massive guarenteed damage right there :D will add to main post
 
why has the editing posts feature gone?!! i just done block punish list for sieg and can't edit the OP :/
 
well heres siegs, this was an absolute pain in the ass to do because of all his stances and options... i did the best i could to try and make it understandable:

--Siegfried--

1AA - 4b
WS AA - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
6B - 66b (close, safe at max range)
1B - 4b (close)
3KKB - 4b
6K - 6a
1K - low grab
BT 2K - low grab
A+kAAB - 66b
A+KA2AA - 63214:b+g
66B - low grab (close), 66k (far)
44BB - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
FC 2A+G_B+G - low grab
SBH K - 63214:b+g
SRSH A - 63214:b+g (close) / 66b (far)
SRSH b - 63214:b+g
SSH AA - 4b

**stance transitions** all those factor in CH as it beats out all his following options on block except in some cases where he evades with 2b+k (goes back into ~SCH).

transitions into ~SCH (2_8b+k)
3~SCH - 6ab
A+KA[A]~SSH - 6ab
BB~SCH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
11~SCH - 6ab

transitions into ~SBH (b+k)
SCH k~SBH - 6k
SCH k~SBH - 6k
2[a+b]~SBH - 6k
SRSH [A]~SBH - 6k
AA~SBH - 6k
2~SBH - 6k
~SBH - 2k
SSH ~SBH - 2k (will beat everything except 2b+k)

transitions into ~SSH (4b+k)
[A]~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
6[A]~SSH - 66k
WS[A]~SSH - 66k
A+B~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
22~SSH - 66k (will beat everything except a+b)

transitions into ~SRSH (6b+k)
4[A]~SRSH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
SRSH [k]~SRSH - 6k
44[A]~SRSH - 6k
88~SRSH - 6k (will beat everything except 2b+k)
SSH[A]~SRSH - 6k
 
I just wanna add that whenever Sieg goes into Base Hold, you can get a low grab. Try to learn his transitions so that you can predict when BH is coming up. Do it quick enough though, or BH K may come out and hit you instead.

Did you try Sieg's 3[A+B] (which transitions into base hold) for a low grab? I'm just curious as to whether 3[A+B], BH K beats a low grab coming through.

Another thing to note is Sieg's low grabs. If he tries to ring you out with one of them, block and use your low grab, like illustrated in Ojste's post. It works wonders because whatever grab you use should be the opposite button your opponent pressed for his throw. For example, Sieg tries ringing out with FC B+G, and you block and respond with 2A+G for the ring out.
 
yea tested 3[a+b] but i labeled it as 2[a+b]. can't low grab SBH on block after that, if they use SBH k it comes out too fast and the low grab will whiff. i just did a quick test and the only SBH transition that you can low grab on block is SRSH [A]~SBH.

low grabbing is too risky as it only works if they idle in SBH or use SBH a_b. SBH k, SBH [k] and SBH a+b will make your low grab whiff... meaning to need to do it very very early (impossble on most of the tranisitions into SBH after blocking) or you suspect them of doing one of the moves which can be low grabbed :D

ALSO every listing of 6b as punishment for siegfried should actually be 4b

i can't edit it because it won't let me :/
 
Astaroth Wiff Punishment thread

So...what do we have to use when someone wiffs in front of us?

And what about step and punish?
 
Astaroth Wiff Punishment thread

bullrush and bullrush. maybe 66B sometimes

take 22B4 if they whiff badly enough
 
Astaroth Wiff Punishment thread

Tiamat hit it right on the nose. Bullrush is best bet. You could be risky and try a command throw, but of course, they could break it.

22_88B4 has some weird whiffs sometimes though. For example, if you sidestep your opponent's vertical, and that said vertical makes its user step forward a bit, 22_88B4 may whiff.

I've punished with PT a few times too, but that's not at all reliable. Humorous, but not reliable...
 
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