Asta Match-up List

ok ill take that truce Xeph.

Since you apparently like to play it all safe and fight from distance, perhaps you could enlighten me on this subject then.

Where are you getting your damage from when you're playing keepout? Cause it seems to me when I go into defense mode the only time anything beneficial that comes out of it is when i get a counter-hit 4a and they happen to not guess right. Or I have a once-in-a-blue-moon 44[a] actually land. It can take a really long time to kill someone this way.
 
taking long to kill someone is fine, spamming 44A, 44B, 4A, A+B is super legit aslong as they're blocked.
 
I feel the Asta vs Xiba matchup is in Xiba's favor. Xiba does a lot of damage and has a better pressure game than Asta ... his ranged game is also not too shabby compared with Asta's
 
Rikuto said:
ok ill take that truce Xeph.

Since you apparently like to play it all safe and fight from distance, perhaps you could enlighten me on this subject then.

Where are you getting your damage from when you're playing keepout? Cause it seems to me when I go into defense mode the only time anything beneficial that comes out of it is when i get a counter-hit 4a and they happen to not guess right. Or I have a once-in-a-blue-moon 44[a] actually land. It can take a really long time to kill someone this way.
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I'm not strictly a "keep out" player. How I play ultimately depends on how my opponent plays and/or the match up. Though, I strongly believe that spacing is the better route to go while using Astaroth. When I'm playing keep out, I get damage numerous ways. spacing/control. 4A hits a lot. 44A will also hit. 22_88B for whiff punishing. Or, if the player has good defense, start breaking his bar with 22_88B. Bullrush is amazing. 2a is good chip damage. And, of course, throws (though, I really should implement more.)


Also, when I'm playing, I'm usually getting the guard to break. So that's a free 80+dmg combo(s) potential. 44(A) also leads to big damage. I do get that move to hit, a lot, but it's not something I suggest anyone to lean on as a staple space/keep out tool. It is good in some cases, though.
 
Xeph said:
I'm not strictly a "keep out" player. How I play ultimately depends on how my opponent plays and/or the match up. Though, I strongly believe that spacing is the better route to go while using Astaroth. When I'm playing keep out, I get damage numerous ways. spacing/control. 4A hits a lot. 44A will also hit. 22_88B for whiff punishing. Or, if the player has good defense, start breaking his bar with 22_88B. Bullrush is amazing. 2a is good chip damage. And, of course, throws (though, I really should implement more.)


Also, when I'm playing, I'm usually getting the guard to break. So that's a free 80+dmg combo(s) potential. 44(A) also leads to big damage. I do get that move to hit, a lot, but it's not something I suggest anyone to lean on as a staple space/keep out tool. It is good in some cases, though.
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Hmmm, I don't see A+B listed, so you must use it very sparingly like I do. Frankly, I don't like A+B in this game. It feels slower, and if your opponent expects it, his character may have a good option against it.

4A and 44A should be the go-to moves. 44[A] has already been JG'ed online against several good players. As has 4. Releasing just before the full charge of these moves might catch them.

2A is pretty underrated. After an air-caught A+G, I 2A a lot, making B grabs do right at 50%. At mid-range, it's decent.

22B BE is our best bet for punishing, considering it has better tracking (or a bigger hitbox, w/e). Normal 22B's hitbox is too random for me, but it's still essential. It's the best at stopping rolls too.

Anyway, why are we discussing this in the matchup thread again?
 
Against fast, in-your-face rushdown characters, I generally try to create space as much as possible and out-range them. Against long range characters, I usually try to close the distance. His move-set design seems to be based on him being flexible in strategy.

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to play Astaroth, whether it be playing close-up or far away.

All-in-all, He's not as bad as I originally thought. I still think he was better in sc4 though. On the plus side to this, IMO he is far more interesting to play now. I'm having a blast with him :). I use his entire movelist now, except for maybe 1BB. That move is just terrible. It has no range, I think it's around i20( don't know just guessing), which is far too slow for the range, it's very unsafe, and only leads to 2A+G or 2B+G IF IT'S A COUNTER ONLY, which is only a 50/50 anyway, and finally it doesn't do that much damage by itself.

If someone could find a good use for 1BB, please let me know. I haven't figured out how to use that move properly, maybe that's because the move is garbage? The only time I could see myself using this move is to punish something that is HORRIBLE on block, and when the opponent is right in my face, the combination of the 2 almost never happening.

Edit: I looked it up, 1BB is 19 frames on impact and -18 on block, and has NO FUCKING RANGE. What a piece of garbage!
 
You can use it in wall combos as an alternate ender, thats about it.

I don't really know that its more effective then using 3a+b 1aa, but it is stylistically humorous in that it can lead to another wall splat and 2a+g/2b+g attempt. And another wall splat and ground throw if 2a+g lands.
 
Asodimazze said:
Any tips about the Algol matchup?
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Never back up; always stay in his face. If he does start the bubble zoning, react to the double-bubble shot (4A+B) with 9B+K. Punish badly spaced single bubbles with 22_88B BE, 28B+G.

One of his best horizontals is 22B, which has quite a few frames of startup and is neutral on block. 1K is neutral ON HIT, so feel free to try 6A,A afterwards. 3BB is extremely steppable, as is his 22B. His go-to grab is 66A+G, so break A often.
 
So.. I've been playing a lot since the EU release. The only character I have serious problems with is, you guessed it, Nightmare.

He just seems to have an answer for everything. I've tried two main tactics, and a mix of both, and he stills seems to edge out everything I do with damage/recovery/mixup.

I've tried keeping him at the mid/long range and chip away at him. Try to land 4a, 44a, 2a, the odd a+b and 44b(with fakes to land the previous moves on chance CH), and bullrush to mix it up a little if he closes distance then into a damage combo on hit or return to the mid/long range if it doesn't land. He seems to be safe against all these things and can more than match me at this range using the same style. His damage output is higher, his moves seem faster, he can close distance quicker, can GI when closing distance and can CE GI(which forces me to wait/poke(and he doesn't even have to gi making his mindgame advantage huge)).

Then I have tried a kind of rush down on him to keep him guessing all the time. I find if Nightmare gets comfortable he can really mess with you as he has a lot more options than asta. So I stay in close, try to fuck with him with slightly delayed 3a+b, 2a+g/2b+g, the odd command throw(rarely lands due to ducking leaving the low grabs and pokes the only options really? the other useful setups seems too slow and they can stand block on reaction even if I've made them guess incorrectly), I add in occasional 4b/4B but usually I don't get anywhere with them. I end up resorting to more bull rush often with BE just to actually get in some damage, but it just seems to lead to the same problems.

I dunno, I'm sure there is just a fundamental flaw in my style. What's worse is that because Keev won the WGC solo, the number of Nightmare players is going to increase A LOT because there are so many bandwagoners. I'm currently resorting to a frame data game and, but it can rely too heavily on execution and a couple of frames makes all the difference. If I wanted an execution character, I wouldn't really be using asta ya know. I've read everything on the asta forum, and tried a lot of it. I guess what I'm looking for here is a new style to try out, not just a couple of moves, but a mindset.

Sorry for the blurb. Appreciate and help/critique.

Cheers
 
Speaking of 1BB AND Bad matchups, Natsu's are eating me up to the point of near fury. Why the fuck is she so damn strong? That does bring me to 1BB though as I've found that a lot of Online Natsus open the match with 66K. 1BB beats it and may even net you the counterhit. I also use 1BB during post 1AG/1BG mixups though I do use it sparingly.

Is anyone else having as much trouble with Natsu as I am? I hate hard on mashy Xibas but Natsu just ruins the game for me.

63214BG>28BG has come up quite often. I was under the impression that you can't 28BG after the throw unless you get the fastest input version of the B command throw, even then, timimng on the 28BG seems rough. Online I almost always just barely miss the opponent and jump over him, costing me the round.

Edit: I really miss SC IV Asta. Also his current outfits/skins suck.
 
to get 28B+G off the command throw you have to cancel into it out of the recovery frames. the timing is kind of strict, i usually just take the 22B instead. slightly less damage, but much easier to hit.
 
Vinco said:
to get 28B+G off the command throw you have to cancel into it out of the recovery frames. the timing is kind of strict, i usually just take the 22B instead. slightly less damage, but much easier to hit.
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22b will actually give a bit more damage (especially if you have meter) but it sets up nothing afterwards unless there's a wall or whatever. 28b+g is what puts astaroth in his crazy throw game.
 
@00000000

^Natsu is a bitch.

Your not alone, I have equal amount of trouble dealing with her as Astaroth as I do with Sieg or NM.

She's just too fast, too much damage, and her mix-ups are nothing to laugh at either. I think all those people bitching about Natsu are actually right.. Sigh...

And if you don't block or jump the bombs, be prepared to eat 50% damage. She also has an UB low bomb that she always does on wake-up and it always catches me, side rolling doesn't work, Ukemi doesn't work, back rolling doesn't work.

To me she's the ultimate "fuck you" character. her air grab is just retarded damage. She gets 50% damage combos from quick, hard to predict moves.

Out of the entire cast, She's the only one in VS mode (very hard AI) that I have to struggle with. It's roughly a 50/50 chance of me winning vs her. Everyone else, including A-pat, get's completely destroyed. WTF is up with that? It's not a matter of me not being familiar with Natsu, because I turtle like crazy and block almost everything she throws out. I feel like I get HUGE damage dealt to me for the tiniest little mistake.

If I use passive defense, my guard gets crushed, if I try to be proactive, I get CH'ed. It's a horrible HORRIBLE match-up to say the least.

Either the AI just happens to be that good with her move set, or she's just that strong of a character. Either way, I hate the bitch.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
@00000000

^Natsu is a bitch.

Your not alone, I have equal amount of trouble dealing with her as Astaroth as I do with Sieg or NM.

She's just too fast, too much damage, and her mix-ups are nothing to laugh at either. I think all those people bitching about Natsu are actually right.. Sigh...

And if you don't block or jump the bombs, be prepared to eat 50% damage. She also has an UB low bomb that she always does on wake-up and it always catches me, side rolling doesn't work, Ukemi doesn't work, back rolling doesn't work.

To me she's the ultimate "fuck you" character. her air grab is just retarded damage. She gets 50% damage combos from quick, hard to predict moves.

Out of the entire cast, She's the only one in VS mode (very hard AI) that I have to struggle with. IIt's roughly a 50/50 chance of me winning vs her. Everyone else, including A-pat, get's completely destroyed. WTF is up with that? It's not a matter of me not being familiar with Natsu, because I turtle like crazy and block almost everything she throws out. I feel like I get HUGE damage dealt to me for the tiniest little mistake.

If I use passive defense, my guard gets crushed, if I try to be proactive, I get CH'ed. It's a horrible HORRIBLE match-up to say the least.

Either the AI just happens to be that good with her move set, or she's just that strong of a character. Either way, I hate the bitch.
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I don't know if it's the right strategy, but I tend to just stay on the ground a little bit longer and just get hit by the bombs to avoid them on wakeup. They don't do much damage by themselves. When it comes to both characters standing and she does it, I've started training myself to react with 9_7 B. I do this with all lows actually.
 
Natsu really isn't a big deal once you understand her better.

Natsu is incredibly short range so there's two ways to fight her depending on how SHE chooses to engage. If she's timid and stupid and is actually waiting for a safe opportunity to attack at range, you can smack her around with 4a and take that money.

The thing about natsu is though, you're not gonna keep her out if she really wants in. All of her get-in bullshit goes under highs, and 44a isn't going to phase her compared to what she can do to you if she makes it in on a counter-hit. If she is the type who is gonna run in using an unsafe crush just wait for it and block, then put her in the throw game.

Let her in as safely as you can and wait for her to mess up. Fish for her patterns, see when she likes to teleport, then interrupt her/put her in the throw game.

If she is the type who actually uses her a6 or any of its variants, as well as aabbb you can punish it with k and get a quick +2 on her. This will help immensely with getting a CH on her as she will probably still think she has enough speed to compensate, but this is only true if she keeps throwing out aabbb which doesn't really lead into anything substantial for her. If she uses just about anything else she is fairly easy to interrupt with either 6k or 6aa.

Unless you are in a ringout situation for her a+g (be), always break B throws. Her a+g regular is absolutely pathetic damage and it doesn't even tickle in comparison. Everything nasty damage-wise comes from B throws. This makes her throw game incredibly one dimensional.

If you get caught in a stun on counter-hit, stop hitting buttons and trying to tech out. You're giving her like 50% more damage every time you press something stupid. Instead just let yourself hit the ground, then PASSIVELY roll away without trying to tech. They will try to bait you into teching up early with caltrops and other nonsense and then hit you with the Bomb. Don't fall for that bullshit, cause everyone does.

If you see fire, stay on the damn ground and let it hit you. I can't stress this enough. It does almost no damage and pushes you away from her. If you stand up and get hit by it, you can kiss your ass goodbye because it's going for a plane ride.

If you do happen to stand up early out of habit and see red fire before it hits you, specifically the Big Bomb, get into the habit of jumping it. You're not going to step it and you're not going to back away. And you're sure as hell not going to block it either, so unless you wanna be all pro and JG that shit like a Boss, you jump it.

If you see her other unblockable, aka deer-in-the-headlights, well... name speaks for itself. All you can do about that is develop the reaction time to either 6k her in the face or step it. In my experience 6k is much more reliable.

The important thing to remember is you let her dictate the terms of the fight, because she can and will and there is nothing you can do to stop that. If you try to bring the fight to her she will more than likely just beat you out every time and ride you like a magic carpet.

Once you know what she wants out of the fight though, your options will crush her like an insect because she will constantly be putting herself right in the zone for your most damaging abilities. Her throw game will be practically non-existant and she will rely completely on hit level mixups for her damage. And to get THAT, she will either be highly interruptable from constant possession stance resets, highly unsafe from finishing strings, or both. Figure out how she's gonna go about it and do what you need to so you can stuff her like a thanksgiving turkey.

And remember what I said back a page about the throw loop? This shit applies double to her when she's actually finishing strings. You're probably not gonna be playing tag from across the room with this little monkey anyway so you might as well take advantage of that fact.
 
I do manage to 9B the bombs sometimes, but I don't always react quickly, and sometimes I only have time for a panic low block, you know, when it's almost too late.
 
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