Asta Matchup chart discussion

feeqmatic

[08] Mercenary
So according to this thread-----> http://www.8wayrun.com/showthread.php?t=4148


The community is looking for a proper matchup chart for every characters chances against other certain characters. 10 being an easy win and 1 being un winnable. I consider myself a pretty good Ast player, but Im no pro. Here's my opinion based on my personal opinions against playing these characters (mostly online BTW)

Algol -5 bubble spam has never bothered me much with as. He is probably slower than as, all I ever worry about are the lows and the BT attacks that catch me off guard
Amy -4 Auto GIs are a pain. Speed is a pain, Ukemi game is a pain esp with Ast. I find getting up off the ground as ast biggest weakness due to the slownes of his moves.
Astaroth -5 duh
Cassandra - 3 BB gotcha! BB gotcha, so on and so on. She is high tier in most books for a reason
Cervantes -5 Once you get past the triple stun combo he is just waiting to be throw. Deceptive reach makes him an issue sometimes
Darth Vader -5 Bassically Ast without the throws. Stiff and simple. Even match
Hilde -4 Her one weakness seems to be getting side stepped from a distance which plays well for ast. I havent met any that have ever dominated me.
Ivy -5 Alot of her best moves put ast in a good position to throw/counter from a distance. Sword state seems laughable against ast.
Kilik -3 Such a friggen pain to fight even the scrubs with Ast. Power, spd, range and wake up attacks all basically trump Asts best attributes
Lizardman- 4 Same realm as the sisters just got to be patient.
Maxi -7 Gaps in moves set him up for all kinds of punishment.
Mitsurugi- 5 Only difficult online. Love to tittan bomb him out of that jumping sword flip. Very punishable and easy to keep out of range if you are patient, of course once in range be able to GI
Nightmare -5 Always puts himself in throw range, Ukemi game can be a hassle. Only punishes well high which can be bull rushed.
Raphael - 5 If you dont know how to deal with prep, look out. If you do, just keep off the ground and moving.
Rock- 7 Ast's kid brother. Same tactics but Ast has bigger guns
Seong Mi-Na -6 Ive just never found her difficult to fight in any way.
Setsuka -5 Speed is an issue but puts herself in crouch grabs and relies too much on counter attacks
Siegfried -4 Stance trance kills me. I personally have problems with him but It might just be my plaing style
Sophitia - 3 UGGGGHHHH!!!!
Taki -5 Again constant movement can put her in position for throws. Has to gamble a lot.
Talim -6 Thought she was unbeatable for months til i started seeing how she leaves herself soooo open in the majority of her offense.
The Apprentice -5 Annoying but essentially underpowered.
Tira -7 I just dont know what she is good for?
Voldo -4 Constant movement minus the easy throwing angles. Wicked lows and unpredictability make him a difficult fight.
Xianghua - 3 The only 3 on here that I dont feel bad about. Just have played some X's that used her deceptive range and speed adv to make life real hard
Yoda - 9 ...
Yoshimitsu - 6 I dont get confused easy, once you get going he cant really stop you. Block low!
Yun-seong - 5 A weaker version of X, Posing from a distance is a good way to get Ax smacked, surprising minimal speed advantage
Zasalamel - 6 As long as I block the low mixups (which is hard online) he is a cakewalk


Let the argument begin
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Here's my matchup list. I'll omit the characters which I don't feel confident evaluating.

Amy: 4 I would rather fight Amy at range so I don't have to deal with her lows and stance game, but Asta has to be careful because any whiff gets Amy a launcher. Amy's movement is good, her TC moves are excellent, and her recovery on whiffs are fast. I want to work on GI her 66A and also block and punish her lows on reaction.

Cassandra: 5 keep her at range and step/step-G. Or you can force the traditional bullrush/command throw mixup, just be careful that a good Cass player will 236 if either one whiffs. Her RO game is also great and she can punish at really long range with 44B+K.

Hilde: 4 only if Astaroth can step better. Fight her at closer range and at the middle of the ring. Excellent defense is needed here. Make her pay for every whiffed charge (preferrably with 22B4 or 3B) .

Ivy: 4.5 her spacing game destroys Astaroth's. Good backdash and CF game also. However, her frames are bad and she does not have access to her tools all the time due to 3 stances. Fight her at closer range. This matchup is annoying because you have to constantly chase her down.

Kilik: 6 Astaroth can fight Kilik ok at long range or closer range. Good defense will allow you to block a lot of his lows. Asura is not so much a threat unless you are Kura where he Asura Asta's 22B on reaction. Bullrush is great vs Kilik for many reasons.

Mitsurugi: 5.5 my biggest problem against Mitsurugi is his stance game and maybe his 1A. Outside of stance, Mitsu is kind of slow and linear. Asta can match Mitsu's high damage ok. Keep him at range because his good long range moves are mostly unsafe.

Nightmare: 5.5 know his tech traps and fight him at closer range. Bullrush bullrush bullrush. Punish. Be careful because Nightmare has excellent RO and wall damage. Nightmare is an incredibly complex character though. Thank goodness a:G:A is easy to mess up. Be careful of ws (and iws) which leads to all kinds of nasty things.

Raphael: 6 his long range, 22~VE B:B, and Astaroth's weak step are the major problems. Good defense allows you to block some of his lows. Also be aware of his CF game.

Rock: 7.5 Astaroth has better options at just about any range. Rock's CF game is better but does not present a problem. On top of that, there are some of Rock's combos and tech traps and apparently miss on Asta (according to LAU)

Setsuka: 3 Thank goodness no Setsuka player in the world can consistently execute her JFs. Her BB pushes her out of Asta's throw range. She has good frames, range, speed, and damage. Punish all her lows except for 2A+B. Fight her at close range.

Sophitia: 3.5 I hate 236236B. I am actually unclear about if it's better to fight her at close range or far range. I wrote about why Sophie is A tier in the tier thread.

Taki: 6 The fact that no Taki player can do A:6 consistently makes this fight easier. Her stance game is kind of gimmicky and she only has a couple ways to get major damage.

Xianghua: 6 X lost her frames, damage, and evasion. Her stance game is not that great either.
 

Dreamkiller

Equal Sign Slash
Why are you bringing players into Character Match-up/Rankings?
Base it on the tools a character has, not by how many people u see playing the character. If you only saw one Ivy player do CS/SS would you put her bottom tier?
I put the match-up as a 6 as well, but not because the 2 Taki players out there can't do A:6 whenever they want. It's like that because Astaroth clearly has advantage over Taki does not have to put in as much work as he does at all. He beats her options, beats her at mid/long range and definitely beats her in damage imo.
 

tresto

[09] Warrior
I say Asta's crazy damage (and knee interrupt) + ring out + TC bullrush balance the game vs Amy. 5:5 for me
(as an Amy player who does lots of matches vs different Asta)
Whiff doesn't mean launcher all the time because Amy has weak range.
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Delnar the boat: Sorry I probably didn't phrase it well. I just think it's a pity that Taki's best move and probably the best move against Astaroth can't be done consistently. I am not saying that the matchup is a 6 because Taki can't do A:6 all the time.

Tresto: you have some good points. However I feel that the knee is not that threatening in that match up for the following reasons:
1) it loses to Amy's 6BB more often than I like because 6K's TC property is not that good.
2) Amy has an awesome 3B and B+K against 6K and 66K

Astaroth's long range moves have pretty long recovery time so with good spacing, Amy can get a launcher more often than not. Amy's launchers (counting 66A as a launcher here) are great offensive tools as well because they're pretty safe against Astaroth.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Asta loses 4-6 or 3-7 to Algol. Algol's pokes are faster than Asta's at every range and his backdash makes it hard for asta to apply strong throw mixups.

Asta should beat nightmare 6-4 because of strong TCs and better grabs
 

Ramon

Perfect Purple Pyrrha
Delnar the boat: Sorry I probably didn't phrase it well. I just think it's a pity that Taki's best move and probably the best move against Astaroth can't be done consistently. I am not saying that the matchup is a 6 because Taki can't do A:6 all the time.

<3
(Delnar Posting)
 

Something-Unique

[10] Knight
Setsuka: 3 Thank goodness no Setsuka player in the world can consistently execute her JFs.
I thought that to until I saw MGV's Setsuka (while not 100%) definitely above the 95% range. Unfortunately he needs to learn the game more in depth though. Once he does that my god I can only imagine the Setsuka sexyness.
 

Inori DWF

[10] Knight
Alright well ill only do match ups I can really say anything in

Ivy: 4 I really hate her amount of stun combos and different stance to use on every range. Make sure to watch out for her very fast mids because a mid attack is what mostly starts her wrath. Also knee never works agaisnt her. I try to guard impact or a quick grab to throw her off her game.

Mitsurugi: 6 I use to find him hard to beat but I have memorized his basic starters. Staying a long range from him cancels out pretty much all his attacks and titan bombing his flips is always fun. I have learned to see when 1a is coming so i just roll sideways.


Cervantes: 8 Most of his moves are very noticable and easy to prepare for. If you avoid his three hit stun you should be fine against him. Parry his geo do rays and punish


Kilik: 6 a pretty basic opponent and is also easy to predict. His range game is a little bit better, but if you can make him whiff he can be an easy target. The only thing to watch for is his wake up games because they are very good. When he is on the ground just block low for low wake up, or sides step for unblockable or kick.


Darth Vader: 3 His force powers are very efficient and his moves are very hard to punish. Watch out for his deflect force move because it is guaranteed damge for him. Use your GIs alot. Darth Vaders big weakness is he has very bad low attacks, so don't worry to much about low punishment. Just wait for small opportunities and damage him little by little until he is KOd


Zasalamel: 6 He is a dangerous opponent if you are too close, so all you have to do is be at long range to cancel out his rips and pulls. If he does happen to full you into and an onslaught, try to pull off a throw and space yourself out.


Yoshimitsu: 7 He may be confusing with his different stances, but if you learn how the player uses them to fight you, there is pretty much nothing he can do but poke you. Side stepping dodges alot of his major attacks and leaves him open. The only thing to worry about is when your close to the edge. He has many moves to take you off the edge like rainbow drop and several kicks to push you back.



Seigfried: 4 His stances and confusing lows take the cake. Seigfried has alot of horizontal attacks so side stepping is overuled. The best thing to do is poke him and do various grabs to punish. also watch out for his pancake flip grab because it can pull off an easy ringout. When he goes for low, block and throw a quick rising attack to knock him down.
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
Clearly feeqmatic has never played a serious Yoshi. The same can be said about jargen88 and his experience against a serious Cervy and Yoshi.
 

Ljkabookie

[09] Warrior
jargen i have to disagree with several of your points, knee works against everyone. its not a very safe move but hey it works against everyone in the right situation

vader does have a good low, its pretty much an unseeable low.

yoshi just pokes are you serious?

sieg ... i agree with tiamat

u have never played a decent cervy.


personally i have a lot of trouble against amy. that could just be due to lack of character knowledge but i have a very hard time beating her .. stupid mid gi combo...
 

feeqmatic

[08] Mercenary
Clearly feeqmatic has never played a serious Yoshi. The same can be said about jargen88 and his experience against a serious Cervy and Yoshi.

I never have played a yoshi that I thought was impressive or difficult to beat.

Also I think the Knee is highly overatted. Most people that play against ast at a decent level just get into the habit of spamming regular quick strikes up close.
 

Inori DWF

[10] Knight
I never have played a yoshi that I thought was impressive or difficult to beat.

Also I think the Knee is highly overatted. Most people that play against ast at a decent level just get into the habit of spamming regular quick strikes up close.

agreed with this

Yoshi is a very easy opponent for me to understand and any other person can see through his abilites.

Also I have played many Cervantes players for a long time and even some that could beat me a round or 2, but never have I played one who totaly destroyed me or saw through everything I did.

and Tiamat... what exactly do you mean by objection??
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
you said stepping is "overuled" which is crap because stepping is useful for punishing predictable/random 3B/B6, but mainly because I wanted to make a stupid phoenix wright reference
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
feeqmatic and jargen88: Considering neither of you even participate in offline tournaments with any serious players, your rankings and opinion carry little weight. Hit a couple big tourneys and then come back.
 

Inori DWF

[10] Knight
If there was any Tournaments near me I would happily join.. but Canada never has things like tourneys on the west side..
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Hey guys,

It's fine that you point out flaws in other people's matchup chart but try not to be like "hey you haven't won anything at tournies so your opinions don't mean sh!t" ... it's almost as bad for experienced players to be arrogant than for inexperienced ones.

I am starting to think the knee is somewhat overrated as well. It's still a good and necessary move but why the hell is it so step-G-able and the wakes off 2B+K~A+G is not good.

Step should never be overruled.
 

feeqmatic

[08] Mercenary
feeqmatic and jargen88: Considering neither of you even participate in offline tournaments with any serious players, your rankings and opinion carry little weight. Hit a couple big tourneys and then come back.

I guess...

But then it hits me that this is a classic logical fallacy and you really didnt read what I said. You just saw that I dont "participate in offline tournaments" and took the opportunity to try to alpha on me. Poorly played sir.

Ive played guys all over this site consistently and have had very few completely outplay me on any real level. Sure its not a tourney, but I dont think it makes that much a difference except for the pressure of a tournament. The game is still the same. Dont think just because I dont bother with tournaments that I dont know how to play. Ive got Dark Messiah, H20 tidaleaf, Otaku Slave, Wareaglesdare, Thegrandbeeking, plus others who I dont even recall all on my friends list.

And yes I know that offline is different than online, but it doesnt completely change some of the facts stated.

The knee is easily snuffed out by regular 3b's and 3a's which a lot of players with experience against ast tend to do.

I havent played any memorable yoshi's that ever made me want to change my gameplan or strats on any real level.

If you really to add to the topic with your big "ive played in tournaments" brain then please do so and refrain from pissing contests.

lets not overplay the necessity of entering tournaments. I have seen as much as the game has to offer, sure my reflexes and thumbs aren't up to pro standards but my skill and knowledge of the game doesnt require validation through tournaments.

Id hate to diminish something that obviously provides great significance to your life. But fall back a bit you're embarrassing yourself.
 

Ljkabookie

[09] Warrior
feeqmatic and jargen88: Considering neither of you even participate in offline tournaments with any serious players, your rankings and opinion carry little weight. Hit a couple big tourneys and then come back.

thats a bit over the top i think. just cause you went to a tourney adn they havent doesnt make you any more right abotu stuff then they are.

on the topic of tourneys got one in a few weeks woohoo ^^ 1 a yeah for SC in sydney, australia ... bleh ...