Astaroth Offical General Discussion

MichaelJackson

[14] Master
With the change to just guard (it no longer effects frames at all) I think Astaroth will be in a better place compared to his SC5 appearance. There was nothing worse than starting a match in SC5 with someone who could JG reliably and, through that one mechanic alone, shut down a ton of Astaroth's options.

I am slightly worried that some of the instances where you could very predictably JG Astaroth (like :A:, :B: or :3::K:, :A:) might be RE bait now, but that augmented Rock/Paper/Scissors scenario is a hell of a lot better than being launched, not to mention you can win the RPS and come out on top.

We'll see how it turns out, but I'm confident it won't feel as awful to play Astaroth in 6 as it was in 5.
 

MichaelJackson

[14] Master

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Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Questions and comments after watching all the French videos:

1) Can the 44A+G armor throw be broken still if armor activates? If yes, is there a 66A+G ?
2) Is there another command throw to pair with 214A+G?
3) 44A range got nerfed back to older Soul Calibur levels. Considering that was my top spacing move, probably SC6 Asta is best played aggressively?
 

Saitoh

[10] Knight
Questions and comments after watching all the French videos:

1) Can the 44A+G armor throw be broken still if armor activates? If yes, is there a 66A+G ?
2) Is there another command throw to pair with 214A+G?
3) 44A range got nerfed back to older Soul Calibur levels. Considering that was my top spacing move, probably SC6 Asta is best played aggressively?

1) Yes and yes. You can even do crouch throws, both of them, out of the armor dash.
2) Yes, 236A+G
3) 44A feels nerfed to me too. But I think he'll be more effective at zoning than in SC5 because JG is gone.
 

MichaelJackson

[14] Master
Copy and paste from the Astaroth Discord by Saitoh (THE FUCKING KING!)


RE B ring out from half screen 1st round, from VERY FUCKING FAR if it goes to 2nd round. It also hurts a lot if it hits a wall, like 90+ in the
2nd round if you're the initiator. Also low grabs do tech traps after the !W if you're close enough, while head grab will work on sleepers.

RE A doesnt look that good but I couldnt lab that much. RE K is a BA if the opponent use G and stun on hit, it may be very good !

Command Throws are always techable (unlike Ivy SS). They're stronger in SC as they gain follow-up much like SC5 BE.
They're done with 214A+G et 236A+G, and there's still a Just Frame on them. Damage are a little bit nerfed, like old command B throw is about 72 on JF now and affected by guts.
They're also susceptible to post-GI scaling. Biggest nerf is that the B command throw push them very far, so you cannot connect any air throws after.
Also no more shenanigans with 22[K] and 66[K]..
But he has a canned string within the throw, the old Rock stuff. If you do 2A or 8A, he swings his axe and smack them mid air. Very good for right or left ring outs.

Bullrush.. 66K still leaves them standing with huge advantage for Asta.
After a fully charged 66K, you can do a second hit OR not, which is VERY strong potentially.
Also a fully charged 66K that hits at max range produces a Lethal Hit. 22B looked guaranted for a big chunk of life bar.
Bullrush is armored while in SC !
Side bullrushs are not coming back, unfortunately.

22B be or 22B4 is no more, you cant launch anymore on demand. Instead, the move can Lethal Hit while punishing whiffs and it then gives you
the old 28B+G. Thing is, the Lethal Hit doesnt happen on a lot of whiffed moves. It works on whiffed RE for sure and on whiffed pokes, but not
on big, slow moves whiffs. Probably the biggest nerf for me.
While in SC tho, it is a BA and it launches everytime. This could be very scary.

Low throws, 1A+G (old B one), 2A+G (old A one) and 3A+G for the ground head throw. The first two are boosted in SC, like SC5 BE.
8A+G is the old 3A+G_B+G and is now un-techable ! It has the potential to be really good this time.

He also got 3 air throws. 4A+G is the one where he slams the opponent on the ground behind him, A+G (or 6A+G?) is the one where he grabs the
opponent by the feet while hitting them with the head of his axe. 28A+G is the old 28B+G. All of them can ring out.

SC5 4K strings are now b~K. It does a LOT of damage (90~100) when in SC due to the boosted low grabs follow-ups.

44B~G is back to his old-self. Very fast and strong again !

AB is NCC but a part from that it feels limited in options... gotta lab more

4A is now 6A and 6A is 4A.

6A is still a very good high for zoning, range seemed buffed to me. You still get a free low grab attempt on counter.
4A got his B follow-up from SC4 and the A follow-up from SC5 but... Neither of them is NCC. I didnt get why and how you're supposed to use them
now but I couldnt lab it more. Maybe 4A frames are way better now so you can use the string as deterrent and mix from there ?

44A and 44[A] are still there, still strong. Obviously 44[A] is way better now that you can't GI or JG BreakAttacks... Range looked a lil' bit nerfed
but I'm not sure. Still the pressure near the edge is HUGE now with this move.

6K, nothing changed. ch 6K is always a very good counter tool.

214A does 90 damage on neutral.

More stuff :


11_44_77 A+G is a new dash forward that has the Armor property, ending with a grab or a low grab. Armor is killed by big damage, throws and lows.
You can mix back and neutral throws, both standing or low. Standing throws after that rush are Rock old throws. Neutral is his A+G throw, does like 45 dmg but
can ring out. back throw is his command B throw with a just frame where he toss you behind him and smash you with his hammer. This one looks VERY strong in SC btw
as the JF is automatic and the ground stun is huge. Gotta lab this one.

CE is a special grab, untechable and you cannot duck after the cutscene. Damage are like the others CE in the game. Nothing special here apart from the range which is impressive, to say the least.

66A, B is NC and does something like 60. 66A, [B ] is NCC and UB, hurts a lot. Both are unconfirmable tho, you have to commit and the last part is always very easy to side step on block.

22AA is there and good.

6[B+K] is armored and goes Lethal Hit if it absorbs something. I guess 6B is a follow-up stun for a full combo after.

Wall combos are a bit changed and harder to do, seems like !W hits lower most of the time. Damage are nerfed too, but across the board, not only for Astaroth.
The fact that you cannot connect the neutral air grab after a back command throw also changes a lot of things...

4[B ], B is a string, two headbutts. Looks NC and a nice way to check button-heavy people.
In SC, 4B, B and 4B, [B ] are strings with the first ending in BA and the second in UB ! But both looks quite simple to side step after blocking the first one so ..

Also in SC, 6B is now armor !! It stuns like a regular ch 6B if it hits after armoring a move.

Old 3K is now 4K, old 4K is now 3K but without strings. As I said, bK is the strings version now.

4KA (old 3KA) is still NCC and high, [A] is still mid. The same string is available now after WS K !
WS B can be held to became a BA, it Lethal hit on Impact Counter.

His 3A from SC5 is back and looks very strong now. Seems faster and with more range ? CH gives a tech trap with low grabs, headgrab on sleepers.

3A from SC4 is here too, now 6A+B. Stuns on CH but doesnt guarantee anything. The move can Lethal Hit if you ring-out'ed your opponent the round before lol

He got Rock 66A+B from SC3, but mid. Nothing spectacular here, good range I guess ?

11_77B, K is stronger now, way easier to use as a whiff punisher. Both hits are very consistent. Leaves Astaroth in BT with the opponent at his feets. Too bad BT 2K are nerfed accross the board tho :/

2B+K string from SC4 is back but my time was up, couldnt check more.

In SC, 1AA and 1AB looks NC. 1A is armored, too !

4A+B and 4[A+B] are here but couldnt lab them :/

3B and 3[B ] also here, but needed more time. No more 2A+K to combo with 3B tho, so we'll see.
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
-"4A is now 6A and 6A is 4A." ... this seems so stupid.

-"The new 4A (old 6A) has both A and B follow-ups but neither is NCC" ... if the B follow-up is safe then it might be still useable as an offensive string instead of CH tool.

-"(Command throw) Damage are a little bit nerfed, like old command B throw is about 72 on JF now and affected by guts." ... guts ???

-"After a fully charged 66[K], you can do a second hit OR not, which is VERY strong potentially." ... oh I love this, especially if the 2nd hit is safe or if the 1st hit is + on block.

-"Low throws, 1A+G (old B one), 2A+G (old A one) and 3A+G for the ground head throw. The first two are boosted in SC, like SC5 BE." Does that mean the ground head throw is also un-techable?

-"4KA (old 3KA) is still NCC and high, [A] is still mid. The same string is available now after WS K !
WS B can be held to became a BA" .... this seems interesting. Previously his ws moves are all worse than FC 3K, unless you land CH wsK

I hope they change the tracking property of 22B so it doesn't automatically whiff up close.

Also would like to know if it's still possible to get up BT for a massive CH BT B+K combo.
 

MichaelJackson

[14] Master
Guts is the system where when you are at low life, you take reduced damage from attacks that deal less than 20 damage. It's also know as reverse rage. It's to cut down on the number of rounds that are won with 2Ks and stuff.

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I think with how GI's and RE's lose to guard breaks, we're going to be in a VERY good spot as Astaroth players. Just a thought I had watching the Saitoh / Akire matches.
 

Monsieur Derp

[08] Mercenary
I was thinking that too. I mean on knockdown it looks like you can do 22K (not sure if the input is different from 5) and it looks like they can't do much about it.
 

SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
Wow a lot of interesting info, thanks.

Dunno why they did stupid changes by inverting some commands... what's the point? It will take some time tu adjust.

Too bad his wall game has been nerfed, and that his command B throw mixups are gone, loved them.

What about this new "Just guard", how does it work? Happy that he will be able again to do some serious spacing without being JG to death, in SC V most charged moves became useless.
 

MichaelJackson

[14] Master
More info from Saitoh

most damage post GI = depends on the GI leve, there is 3 differents GI level with different frames advantages(edited)
at most, probably 3B launch or b~K into guaranteed low grab attempts

" After a guard break or 2nd round RE clash break is 66[A]B guaranteed? and how much does it do "
yes, 80 because it doesnt scale most of the time, oddly enough

" is wsA, 4A still a frame trap "
wsA is unchanged so yeah

" s wsK 2A an option?, or has he lost the low after that move? "
I dont think so, will confirm tomorrow. wsK got the old 3K strings now

" does wsK still give a CH knock down "
yes but I cant confirm right now what it gives, will test tomorrow

" does the super armour on 6B+K stay as long as you are charging the move? "
no, the armor is not active at i1 and disappears before the move animation ends

" i'm guessing CH 4A,B is a combo, "
guess again, I told this weeks ago, this strings is not NCC anymore
very odd btw, it may differs in SC, i'll try this, again, tomorrow
" can you titan bomb yoshi out of pogo stance? "
I dunno but you definitely can out of DGF. mostly you will not tho, because his main transitions to DGF are very PLUS on block

" are the standing and FC bullrushes different? "
yes like in SC5, 66K leaves them standing and Astaroth at +10
FC3K do KND for ring outs and !w

overall impression is average, but there's a lot to lab and find
armors are easily stuffed by a lot of moves
and Astaroth RE release feels very slow, my opponents could step it a lot even after getting theirs moves armored by it
if you can land it tho, the options are very strong
RE B, no need to say more
RE K does guarantee a low grab attempt on hit or block
and RE A does indeed front ring-out and !W

and last thing for tonight, I found out that 1B, the old low, can be fully charged or semi-charged for feint
full charged it is at least +5 on block because FC 2A from sophitia was countered by Asta's 4B(edited)
on the bright side, you can zone and space very well in comparison to SC5
not getting JG at every turn feels very refreshing
WS feels very strong, hit OTG !
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Does FC 3K have a wider hitbox than 66K like in SC5 ?

The slow RE makes me worried. I was looking forward to RE a lot because Asta's armored throws seem so slow.

If you guard break someone with a move that has fast recovery (like 4B or 6A), can you still get CH 6[A+B] ?
 

Astaroth136

[09] Warrior
Hey guys, I got to play some last night and had some new info I haven't seen here.

214A+G (his old B grab) rings out over low walls without even using the A followup.

11B,K launches the opponent behind you and it combos into BT B+K or A+G for near identical damage on either option.

BT B+K hitting an airborne opponent causes them to slide on the ground, rather than fly away like previous games.

FC 3K still has the huge hitbox.

44[A] knocking the opponent away rather than stunning is sad.

44[K] on block feels really different. In SCV, your advantage was dependent on the spacing. In this game, it feels constant, but I didn't test it enough.

44[K] W! CE still works at tip range and does hilarious damage.

If Asta and his opponent both CE on the same frame, a trade can occur. It happened with me and a Cervy player.
 
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SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
Curious about his CE:

ideas on frame data?
I saw it's possible to GI (-____-')
Impossible to duck after the animation starts, correct?

Didn't read much about 66B: good frames? Mid, high? Different hit animations, with slide stun if hits tip, CH like SC1? Back in the day it was a great tool for punishing.

Nice to have both 4A,A and 4A,B, shitstorm that they no more combo on CH, let's hope, at least that they have good frames on block (4A,A first and second hit, at least).

Other curiosity: the guard crush game is still viable in this game, or it's too long and demanding, as it seems from the vids?
Please tell me it's still possibile to GC the opponent with 5 44B or 22B <3
 

SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
First impressions after 20 matches online, very raw and untested, but still:

- throwrange is LONG
- CE range is LOOOONG
- 22AA seems have good frames
- 66B pretty much sucks, high and maybe slower? I couldn't punish a lot of attack I could in SCV
- 66[K] vacuum hitbox at the end of the animation is much smaller than before, frames seem worse too
- 6A (new) always good spacing tool
- 4A_A_B (new) seems a little longer now? The first hit seems to hit further than before
- 9B goood damage, less push-forward on hit
- 44[A] lost a lot since it has no more spin stun, nice for RO and fuck up opponent's reactions tough after GI or variate the tempo
- 11_77 B, K second hit much better, possible followups?
- 22B tracks very little even on grounded opponents, dangerous. The Soul Charge version seems to have a shorter launch, so to combo 28A+B you have to be FAST
-6B variations could be interesting, very linear tough
- 2A maybe shorter or it's just me?
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