Astaroth Offical General Discussion

Peaches

[08] Mercenary
First impressions after 20 matches online, very raw and untested, but still:

- throwrange is LONG
- CE range is LOOOONG
- 22AA seems have good frames
- 66B pretty much sucks, high and maybe slower? I couldn't punish a lot of attack I could in SCV
- 66[K] vacuum hitbox at the end of the animation is much smaller than before, frames seem worse too
- 6A (new) always good spacing tool
- 4A_A_B (new) seems a little longer now? The first hit seems to hit further than before
- 9B goood damage, less push-forward on hit
- 44[A] lost a lot since it has no more spin stun, nice for RO and fuck up opponent's reactions tough after GI or variate the tempo
- 11_77 B, K second hit much better, possible followups?
- 22B tracks very little even on grounded opponents, dangerous. The Soul Charge version seems to have a shorter launch, so to combo 28A+B you have to be FAST
-6B variations could be interesting, very linear tough
- 2A maybe shorter or it's just me?
-

66B feels pretty awful.
Disapointed with range on 2_8A+B but it does hurt bad when you hit at the farthest point.

Soul Charge gives revenge on everything, wow. The revenge grabs are an interesting tool, tons of range but quite slow.

Lots of weird lethal hits that I'm not sure of the use for yet.
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
General impression:

With the general decrease in range of spacing tools and no SC3 AB nor SC4 3[ B] , I feel I have more success closing in vs staying out. Closing in also allows Asta to use RE, which is his main way of getting meter quickly.

The broken, good, bad, ugly, and unknown:

[Broken]

- RE B 2nd round/LH ... It ROs 3 full screens away and creates situations where both RE A and RE B would RO. Too damn good lol.

[Good]

- Thank you Namco for fixing 22B hitbox somewhat. I only had 22B whiff once on its own.

- 3B: while not as good as SC4 3B I find myself using this more than I did in SC5 against people that like to attack OTG. It also has a proper combo now.

- CE: aside from the recently discovered glitch to sidestep Asta's CE, it has been pretty good.

- RE B and RE K.

The bad

- nerfing CH 6K damage and CH 4AB/4AB not being NCC means it's difficult to get opponent to sit still and take our 50/50.

- 66[K] is not even good as a long distance wake-up option now due to much smaller hitbox and less advantage on block.

- 66B still sucks

- not sure why they made BB6 and B6B so similar in command ????

- no good combo after CH 3A and CH 6A+B

[The ugly]

- RE attack is slow as hell. I had so many RE attacks stepped or interrupted after RE deflects attacks.

- no scary long range new moves in soul charge in my opinion (I may need to spend more time experimenting )

[The unknown]

- right now the armor throws seem gimmicky, not sure they are worth it

- not sure about all the new charge moves (6B, wsB, 1B, etc)
 
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Brahma

[09] Warrior
So I don't know if anyone knew this and not in the movelist but 44B can be cancelled into all his grabs, including the 44_66 armor ones.

Anyone find any other unlisted moves? Tried 214A old Rock cancels but no go.
 

Astaroth136

[09] Warrior
My thoughts after playing all weekend...

The bad:

- 22B is a craps shoot. It will DEFINITELY whiff if you're slightly off axis, so even sidestep punishing with it can be a gamble unless you're right on top of them. For example, I whiffed several times trying to punish Mina's long range low poke as she leans forward and becomes off-axis to 22B. Same with some of Soph's verticals.

Lethal hits feel inconsistent, with 22B being the main culprit. I wish 4A+G (air grab) always lethal hit bounced if you caught them out of an attack.

66[K] is a terrible gap closer now. It loses to RE and GI very easily. It's not as fast, has worse frames on block, and has fewer active frames than its SC5 counterpart. I'm not happy with it at all. I've found myself using 66A+B, 9B+K, or just running in as better options.

44A has shorter range. 44[A] no longer stunning and comboing is a HUGE nerf, as we used to be able to backstep and punish with it occasionally.

2_8A+B and 11_77B feel like they have slightly shorter range.

4A+B unblockable has zero tracking.

Overall, we get downright outclassed in range by Siegfried, Ivy, and Mina (probably Kilik too but I have zero matchup experience). I feel like they have much faster long range pokes than us.

Lack of wall combos from grabs. Remember when we could combo from command grabs near the wall and get nice combos? Well, not any more! The best we get is 214A+G (A follow-up) 1_2A+G... which either works or it doesn't, depending on spacing. The good part is that we sometimes get an inescapable back throw from it, but it's pretty random or extremely hard to predict.

3A+G consistency. There are times when 3A+G simply will not work when you're slightly off axis, other times it will. I'd like the hit box to be a bit larger on this to provide consistency, so in the meantime, I guess just 4B.

66B is still poop. I find myself using it only to punish certain things.

RE attack is just extremely slow and his the most linear hitbox ever. Opponents can just stop their string and still step.

Armored running low grabs feel gimmicky and do too little damage, in my opinion. They should at least ring out.

Why is 3K just bK without a grab followup? Must be a frame difference but feels silly to have identical moves...

Lack of solid sidestep punish up-close. Someone else mentioned this, and I agree - it'd be nice if we got decent damage from predicting those annoying sidestepping and tech crouching moves up close. Sure, we get CH 66A,B, but you better be sure it connects or you're eating a ton of damage by punishment.

Lack of guard gauge pressure. We've got some guard pressure options, but other characters like Groh and Mina can break guard in 4 attacks. We can break in 8 or 10 (correct me if I'm wrong here, as it's early on a Monday). 44B and 22B should do much more guard-breaking damage like in SC5. Maybe I'm not spamming enough GB attacks...

Grabs can be GI'ed... INCLUDING OUR CE. This hurts quite a bit. A decent change could be that our just frame grabs are not GI'able, along with the CE.

I'll post my "good" thoughts a bit later.
 
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karaokelove

[03] Disciple
For someone new to SC, all these abbreviations are killing me. Is there somewhere I can learn what the abbreviations and acronyms mean?
 

Astaroth136

[09] Warrior
For someone new to SC, all these abbreviations are killing me. Is there somewhere I can learn what the abbreviations and acronyms mean?

GI = Guard impact
CE = Critical Edge
RE = Reversal Edge
Numbers = Look at the number pad on a keyboard. Pretend 5 is a joystick at neutral. Pushing the joystick up would point it to 8, down is 2, right is 6, etc.
 

karaokelove

[03] Disciple
GI = Guard impact
CE = Critical Edge
RE = Reversal Edge
Numbers = Look at the number pad on a keyboard. Pretend 5 is a joystick at neutral. Pushing the joystick up would point it to 8, down is 2, right is 6, etc.
Cool, thanks! How about "ws", as in, "WS B can be held to became a BA ".
 

Astaroth136

[09] Warrior
WS = While standing. As in, your character is standing up from a crouching position.
BA = Break attack. It's the lightning effect that usually gives advantage against blocking opponents.
 

karaokelove

[03] Disciple
WS = While standing. As in, your character is standing up from a crouching position.
BA = Break attack. It's the lightning effect that usually gives advantage against blocking opponents.
Awesome, thanks for the help!

[Edit] Oops, one more: FC? As in, "FC3B is less than -10!"

Ugh, a one more. Seriously, it's like learning a new language!
SXS
 
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Brahma

[09] Warrior
Yeah after playing all weekend it feels like Asta doesn't really excel at anything in particular. Mina/Ivy/Sieg/Nightmare all seem to outrange him, Ivy has a better grab game, and Mina/Groh/ and a few others all have a better GB game.

I really miss 44[A] stun.

I feel like Asta has a pretty solid tech trap game, but virtually no reason for the opponent to tech instead of G stand.

It feels pretty bad vs Soph and faster characters on the inside. Partially because I keep mixing up 4 and 6A. His RE can be stepped after armor and I don't feel like armor grab reliable enough. I should probably be utilizing GI more as his GI game seems strong. Also haven't played around with SC much since I usually burn meter for super.

Overall I feel like his game revolves around him having to fish for grabs/6B/6A to get a mixup opportunity. Any time the opponent gets knocked down near you I feel like 1, 4, and 44 cancels provide a solid mixup.

Been using 11BK as my big combo ender or choice to keep them close for oki. Same with 44K for small combos.
 

Astaroth136

[09] Warrior
It feels pretty bad vs Soph and faster characters on the inside. Partially because I keep mixing up 4 and 6A. His RE can be stepped after armor and I don't feel like armor grab reliable enough. I should probably be utilizing GI more as his GI game seems strong. Also haven't played around with SC much since I usually burn meter for super.

Overall I feel like his game revolves around him having to fish for grabs/6B/6A to get a mixup opportunity. Any time the opponent gets knocked down near you I feel like 1, 4, and 44 cancels provide a solid mixup.

Been using 11BK as my big combo ender or choice to keep them close for oki. Same with 44K for small combos.

So much this. I saw vids of people ending with 11BK, especially after 214A+G, and it clicked that that makes much more sense. I don't want to knock Ivy or Mina away!

His SC is REALLY strong in my opinion. 6B,AAAAAAA or 6B,B is great. Armored bullrush AND bullrush followup in SC is a good mixup as well. But overall, the guaranteed CE damage (if it hits) and mindgames from it feels more consistent to me.
 

Brahma

[09] Warrior
I feel like initial SC burst is good to get pressure off of you, but you can easily get a bullrush or something blocked then spend most of your SC time being stuck guarding.

I'm finding 11BK misses sometimes in combos, particularly stun 22K stuff, so sometimes stuff go for 22B.

Feel like I have much more trouble up close than SC4/5 Asta. K_4A_4B_2K not quite cutting it. Thinking I should maybe use 6A+B more?

GI game is solid. 214[A+G] and A+B awesome for faking re-Gi.
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Wait, how is GI game solid? There really isn't a reason to re-GI Asta ...
I do prefer GI over RE vs Maxi and others that can have break attacks in their strings.

I agree that 22B still whiffs but the frequency is less than in SC5 for me.

I definitely would like to learn how to play his SC games ... CE just seems better to me.

66[K] is definitely junk ... only useful when you know a high-high is coming.

I personally feel that 11BK is his best tool to get in (except that BT B+K whiffs a lot in the 11BK combo), especially since 44B also has its range nerfed and its combos/follow-ups are super wonky now. In my opinion, 11BK is literally the only reason Asta still fight Aswel, Nightmare, Siegfried, (Ivy?).
 

SadGuy

[01] Neophyte
anyone else pretty disappointed overall? I don't understand the nerfs to bullrush and 66B. Throw damage seems worse too. And his matchup against zoners (Ivy Azwel Mina) seem very bad. the "armor" is so pathetic outside of soul charge, taking away autoGI from 6B+K and giving it armor on the charged version feels like a prank.
 

Brahma

[09] Warrior
bk has follow ups, 3K does not. Don't know about frame differences, I see no reason to use 3K.

As far as GI, I don't think he's exceptional, but mixup is decent. Throw mixup, bK, 6B, is what I mainly use. A+B or charge grab for re GI. Anytime I can land a grab and apply oki pressure I feel that he's strong.

Also found out back throws are breakable, after spending about an hour getting a backthrow setup at the wall.