Astaroth Offical General Discussion

BeefyLoveLord

[09] Warrior
I'm hoping this is just me being slow to adapt to character change as I've been in previous games, but I'm absolutely getting that lower-mid tier vibe. Turns out when you stick more and more of rocks moveset on a guy he goes farther and farther down the tier list.

The loss of Burial (2A+K) going into 5 is something I've personally bitched about to anyone who will listen every chance I get. And I'm feeling it even more in 6 where we are struggling to find ways to leverage our excellent tech trap game.

I also feel like Stepping vs Asta at Disadvantage is a much stronger option now then it used to be. You can obviously punish this with throws, but some of the better players I've come across are just doing single step (which is fine thanks to how linear our options are now) and going into a tech ducking move, and our ways to punish this a not strong.

in particular the first day playing against actual strong players I noticed the lack of 4b being able to stuff step attempts after landing a 66k was something I could not reconcile on short notice, and I had to change up how I play at advantage heavily.
 

Brahma

[09] Warrior
Am I the only one that gets 22B when I try to 11B? It happens frequently and I've never had that issue before...
Muscle memory :)

On the real though, thanks for the SC info, gives me a much better idea of how to utilize it and he gains some pretty strong options.

One of my biggest problems in general with Asta is just people pressing buttons. Without a solid GTFO combo or move, I'm reduced to just trying for a 4A single hit or trying to guess under a high. Trying to get better at GI-ing strings.

I've had a hard time with people stepping at disadvantage on Asta also, and I think 6A+B is one of his better tools to cover this. i18 (same as 6K_6A), safe, pushback on normal hit and block, and good advantage on CH for a free mixup. LHs on first hit after ending the previous round in RO , giving you free combo (22K, 22B or 2B+K,A+G) for respectable damage. Just a once per round thing, and conditional, but useful.

Really liking 1[B ] as an oki tool after most knockdowns. Hits grounded, catches most rolls, knockdown on hit and +6 on block. Mixup with 4B_44K once they stand straight up.
 

Foxbot

[09] Warrior
Muscle memory :)

Really liking 1[B ] as an oki tool after most knockdowns. Hits grounded, catches most rolls, knockdown on hit and +6 on block. Mixup with 4B_44K once they stand straight up.

I feel 1 is the new 4. 1 actually catches step somewhat too !

On a sad note, it seems 3B whiffs sometimes against female characters just lying on the floor ...
 

D_Matt_Ma

[10] Knight
I'm hoping this is just me being slow to adapt to character change as I've been in previous games, but I'm absolutely getting that lower-mid tier vibe. Turns out when you stick more and more of rocks moveset on a guy he goes farther and farther down the tier list.
This made me laugh... in a very sad way.
 

Jahjitsu

[01] Neophyte
I’ve been using Astaroth as my main since forever and it’s extremely frustrating using him in 6. I feel like throw breaks are so easy to do and he lost a lot of his mixups from his previous self.

His wake up options are terrible, and his hyper armor is almost useless because players constantly attack or their character has multi hitting moves. His Soul Edge form is also very underwhelming. Sure his throws become unbreakable but players can still hit through your hyper armor.

He definitely feels like low tier to me. But I’ll stick with it
 

ManNR

[05] Battler
So I've played the SC games since SCI (skipped SCV) and have focused on Asta since SCII. However, while I am decent, I am no expert. Playing SCVI since launch day I've felt there are some very strange issues with the character but I am not versed enough to fully understand them. I see the blatantly broken 2P air grab issue from the post above. I also feel that he has a very difficult time hit stunning characters (especially faster characters) which limits my ability to punish or break pressure. He also wiffs against many side-step characters when I feel the hit is clearly apparent. This is particularly blatant against Sophie. Zasalamel was also giving me issues yesterday with weird hit-box issues. I see where the hit should occur but it will clip through the opponent's model. Sophie was somehow able to sidestep my CE yesterday after the animation began. I don't expect him to be an unstoppable monster but his kit seems to have major issues that a player with any decent experience can take advantage of. Can anyone with more technical knowledge give insight into what makes him work or not work compared to past games? Am I justified in my sense that he has major problems?
 

CaliJared

[09] Warrior
I think we're all feeling it in some way or another. I'm usually not one to complain about my character, but I feel like every other character got really strong, solid tools in this game, but Asta is sorta left with some gimmicks that are good at lower levels of play but get blown up hard at higher levels.

I'd really like a good mid to discourage as much ducking (even making bull rush track like it used to would be cool), and a good tool to make people want to get off the ground, rather than just staying down and doing some rolling at the risk of small pecks.
 

tntedesco

[01] Neophyte
Asta sucks in this game. He is really slow, he has awful defense, terrible wake up, range is meh, throws are easily breakable. He is easily pressured and zoned out. Sophitia and Ivy destroy him, imo those matchups are 7-3. I think that characters were balanced with RE in mind, and since it’s a fucking stupid mechanic, Asta was hurted the most. Who cares that he can ring out the opponent in a clash. It only works against scrubs.
 

CaliJared

[09] Warrior
Yeah, those last two sentences are exactly what I mean by good at low levels but bad at high level. I wonder if they'll change anything if they do any future balance patches.
 

low_chance

[01] Neophyte
after 214A+G you can 11B+K for less damage but can stay closer
shame this is what the character has come down to

This is a good tip. I find myself actually preferring this followup for most of the cast.

The damage decrease is extremely small (like, less than 5 damage I think?) and the ability to end up in position for Oki pressure has been more valuable against the majority of my opponents.

The more I draw the match out into a long exchange of pokes, the less I win against good opponents. Going for a high-risk, momentum-based game is producing better results, so this followup that keeps them having to guess is preferable.


EDIT:

Oh also the fact that CH4A doesn't guarantee either of the follow-ups is completely ridiculous. It's one of his few close range fast tools and if you interrupt a button happy opponent you get absolutely nothing.

Although it's no longer a true combo, 4AA does have one stealth buff, which is that it is + on block if they block the second hit. Most people don't know that, so you can land easy counterhits on inexperienced opponents. Experienced opponents will still have to play the guessing game after a 4A as to whether or not it's safe to duck/GI, since you can switch to the B follow up, or A+B.
 

SatanaXXX

[09] Warrior
Asta will never be a character easilly "tierable", too dependent on the player and his mindgames.

You can only judge the tools and autopilot stuff. He has great damage potential, nice TC as always and good tracking moves.

What he is really missing is a strong, consistent "out of jail" move, since now he just has 4A series, not guaranteed on CH and prone to tech crouch, 4B seems a lot shorter and linear than before.

You have to exploit well GI RE in some "high heat" situations, still if you guess right 2-3 times the round is yours.

I think that now is more important than before to keep a good distance between you and the opponent, so maybe it's wiser to land a good blocked stagger than chip easy damage and remain close, with bad frame situations.

It's too early, I know, but I don't find him so bad. My biggest pain, right now, is the tiny tiny hitbox of the 66[K], which makes it nearly useless in wakeup/long range.
 

CaliJared

[09] Warrior
I disagree that he has good tracking moves. Last night someone stepped by 6A when I knew they were going to try to step away from a ledge. Bull Rush doesn't track nearly as well, and 4B is so easily stepped. His 4A+B unblockable is also easily stepped even at the last second, so it's not so good as an oki tool anymore.