Astaroth Q&A/Discussion Thread

[K0rN_b4LL]

Is that one of those "if they are right against the edge" things? On NH it knocks back a little so I guess it could be enough to ring them out.

 

[Inori DWF]

I keep ringing myself out with 66(K) and yesterday it even happened with 66kBE, which I didn't realize was possible. This is getting dangerous. Better moves to ring the opponent (rather than yourself) out with? Besides launching and using the A+G air throw. I know 1BB on counter would be good too, but I so rarely hit anyone with it.

I would suggest using iFC 3K in order to RO safely. It has pretty decent range and is safe to most of the cast [-12]. 1K on NH right near the edge will ring them out, but don't let them get use to seeing it. Another tool that works right next to the edge is 9B.

9B has bigger push back than the other jumping Bs, and as a result it will ring out if their back is touching the edge. It also does a good job of making people scared of whoring out 2As and 2Ks. However, it's regular 2A punishable (or JF Twister) which will give them the frames to comeback, so don't whore it out.

 

[Ruuku]

Any use for 3A+G/B+G?

 

[Der Lindwurm]

Any use for 3A+G/B+G?

If they're a little further away. Can also jump a low attack and get them while they're still tech crouched. Though it's more luck than anything else when that happens.

 

[Slade]

Any use for 3A+G/B+G?

2K/2A into RCC 3A+G/B+G is cheap shit. Jumps over retaliation 2A/2Ks and lands the crouch throw. Very effective against panicking opponents.

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

Just realised something interesting. When you do his stun combo it does just about a full BEs worth of meter. So basically 44[A], BB6, 662/8K, 662/8B will build enough meter for a full brave edge. Likewise for the off-the-wall stun since the w! probably gives more meter than the 44[A] does. Using AB or 6B instead of the BB6 won't give you the full bar but will come close, the 6B might be able to get it off the wall but I'm off to eat lunch so I'll figure that out later. Just something to keep in mind if you are really into meter management.

 

[uk_smokey]

Just realised something interesting. When you do his stun combo it does just about a full BEs worth of meter. So basically 44[A], BB6, 662/8K, 662/8B will build enough meter for a full brave edge. Likewise for the off-the-wall stun since the w! probably gives more meter than the 44[A] does. Using AB or 6B instead of the BB6 won't give you the full bar but will come close, the 6B might be able to get it off the wall but I'm off to eat lunch so I'll figure that out later. Just something to keep in mind if you are really into meter management.

44A], BB6, 662_8K, 662_8B BE , 4B] leaves you with the same, if not more meter than you started with once you add in the meter gain from the 4B] and a follow-up. Also does good damage, guard break damage, and leaves you on +ve frames for a mix-up.

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

^ Punctuation aside thats actually some pretty good stuff.


Does anyone know exactly how much damage it does when the opponent breaks your grab? Is it the same for all of them or does it depend on what grab you use?

 

[uk_smokey]

^ Punctuation aside thats actually some pretty good stuff.


Does anyone know exactly how much damage it does when the opponent breaks your grab? Is it the same for all of them or does it depend on what grab you use?

I've edited my post as reading it back it was quite painful to look at and understand.

I quite like this set-up as it allows you to end your combo with another 50/50. I haven't got a clue if you can escape it easily, but staying down and taking the 4B] hit gives damage on par with the 66B ender anyway.

I'm not sure how much damage you take from breaking a grab, but the amount of people i have killed with end of round grabs (which they broke) kinda makes me think it isn't affected by guts?

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

I've edited my post as reading it back it was quite painful to look at and understand.

Just a heads up, they can avoid the 4B by rolling on the ground. Recorded the moveset in training and was able to avoid it this way. Still few people are ever going to consider rolling after a 22B BE so probably still viable until they get used to it.

 

[uk_smokey]

Just a heads up, they can avoid the 4B by rolling on the ground. Recorded the moveset in training and was able to avoid it this way. Still few people are ever going to consider rolling after a 22B BE so probably still viable until they get used to it.

Is this a quick roll to either side and they avoid it, or do they have to KNOW the setup and roll a few times or is it something they might do accidentally anyway? I dont have access to the PS3 atm as im sitting at work trolling the web while my boss is out

Will it hit them if they roll and get up straight away or is a big roll needed? If its a big roll, can they then get up and whiff punish it before Asta recovers or are they likely to eat BT CH B+K trying?

Also can you release 4B] on reaction to them rolling anyway?

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

Is this a quick roll to either side and they avoid it, or do they have to KNOW the setup and roll a few times or is it something they might do accidentally anyway? I dont have access to the PS3 atm as im sitting at work trolling the web while my boss is out

Will it hit them if they roll and get up straight away or is a big roll needed? If its a big roll, can they then get up and whiff punish it before Asta recovers or are they likely to eat BT CH B+K trying?

Also can you release 4B] on reaction to them rolling anyway?

They have to roll at least twice to avoid it and it looks like they have to roll to Astaroth's right, if they roll to his left then it still hits them. The faster moves in the game can whiff punish but the timing is really tight. I couldn't get a grab out of it but I was able to land Cervy's CE after avoiding the 4(B).

As far as reaction goes you need to have ninja reflexes to roll on reaction to the headbutt, and I don't think it is possible at all to release the 4(B) on reaction to rolling since everything just happens so quickly.

 

[uk_smokey]

They have to roll at least twice to avoid it and it looks like they have to roll to Astaroth's right, if they roll to his left then it still hits them. The faster moves in the game can whiff punish but the timing is really tight. I couldn't get a grab out of it but I was able to land Cervy's CE after avoiding the 4(B).

As far as reaction goes you need to have ninja reflexes to roll on reaction to the headbutt, and I don't think it is possible at all to release the 4(B) on reaction to rolling since everything just happens so quickly.

This is awesome, i did test it and managed to get up GI too, its tight though. As far as damage goes though i have had close games where i get cocky and 4B] where 66B would have killed or put them in a position where 2a/2k would kill, so 4B] is not that great for round ending as you give them another chance to GI or guess your mixup.

 

[Saitoh]

I wonder if I'm the only one feeling this atm ...

I feel very limited when playing my char right now. I can only press my strength with mix-up and ring awareness, but I cant use my others assets as a player, like good zoning, good defense and/or JG applications.

I mean, Astaroth have never been so much bi-dimensionnal before, at least in my POV. It's like I'm missing everything the game could offer in term of deep and interesting gameplay.

Any thoughts about that ?

 

[Inori DWF]

I wonder if I'm the only one feeling this atm ...

I feel very limited when playing my char right now. I can only press my strength with mix-up and ring awareness, but I cant use my others assets as a player, like good zoning, good defense and/or JG applications.

I mean, Astaroth have never been so much bi-dimensionnal before, at least in my POV. It's like I'm missing everything the game could offer in term of deep and interesting gameplay.

Any thoughts about that ?

I don't want to sound rude, but this sounds more like a personal problem with the game rather than the character. Is there a reason you feel that you can't zone at all? He has tools to do it. 44A, 44B/44B G, AB, A into throw etc. The only reason it may seem hard is because of how unsafe backstep is. A good defense in this game is a very active defense. Utilizing more attacks to push back is now (more often than not) better than just stepping backwards and guarding in terms of safety. It forces you to take calculated risks to create a consistently good defense. I know it sounds rather idiotic to do when looking at every other SC, but SCV isn't the same game. This game is less methodical and more high paced action.

As for Asta being an interesting character...well, I've never seen Astaroth as an interesting character to play. In fact he's pretty straight forward and boring, but he's still effective. He gives me high rewards for my ability to spot people's intentions/mix-up offense with a hint of zoning, and doesn't require high execution to play. His only "in-depth" mechanic he has is his ring presence (which is why I'm not a fan of infinite stages).

Do I miss the slower style of the older SC games? Yea I do, but if I'm going to keep playing I have to adapt to the new rules. I hope you can adapt as well. (^_^)

 

[Saitoh]

I don't want to sound rude, but this sounds more like a personal problem with the game rather than the character. Is there a reason you feel that you can't zone at all? He has tools to do it. 44A, 44B/44B G, AB, A into throw etc. The only reason it may seem hard is because of how unsafe backstep is. A good defense in this game is a very active defense. Utilizing more attacks to push back is now (more often than not) better than just stepping backwards and guarding in terms of safety. It forces you to take calculated risks to create a consistently good defense. I know it sounds rather idiotic to do when looking at every other SC, but SCV isn't the same game. This game is less methodical and more high paced action.

As for Asta being an interesting character...well, I've never seen Astaroth as an interesting character to play. In fact he's pretty straight forward and boring, but he's still effective. He gives me high rewards for my ability to spot people's intentions/mix-up offense with a hint of zoning, and doesn't require high execution to play. His only "in-depth" mechanic he has is his ring presence (which is why I'm not a fan of infinite stages).

Do I miss the slower style of the older SC games? Yea I do, but if I'm going to keep playing I have to adapt to the new rules. I hope you can adapt as well. (^_^)

Dont worry, no ego issue here. I maybe right or wrong so no offense taken at all.

Well I think you're wrong about his zoning, at least when playing at top level against seasoned opponents. Astaroth's zoning is full of holes, VERY prone to JG and generally more tricky than solid. But you're totally right when it comes to defense in SC5. At least for Astaroth ! That's my main issue though. I'm not sure every others characters are forced to try a more active defense all the time, when Astaroth is limited in that respect.

Alright I'll try to illustrate my issue. I think Raphael and Nightmare are both weaker than Astaroth (by far for Raphael) but in the same time, I think those two characters can shine better in the hands of top, dominating players. With Astaroth, I feel I can only use my superior mindgame and ring control, where as my others assets do not really come into play, or barely. Astaroth do not gain a lot by JG, careful movements and such. Like I said, I feel you have to press on his 2 strongs points and that's it.

Hear me well, I still think that's enough to win if you're good enough with guessing and ring control. But the whole design of Astaroth has been pushed to the max in SC5, making him a parody of himself IMO. I really think he's limiting my game right now.

 

[K0rN_b4LL]

This game is less methodical and more high paced action.

This has been my biggest complaint about this game since the start, I don't really have the reaction time to avoid a lot of the stuff these characters toss out. I hope they slow it back down a little with SCVI.

 

[LP]

I think SC5 places much more weight on decisions made than any of the previous installments. True enough, there has been an increase in speed but that's what people were asking for, claiming that...well...whatever they were claiming.

 

[Inori DWF]

Dont worry, no ego issue here. I maybe right or wrong so no offense taken at all.

Well I think you're wrong about his zoning, at least when playing at top level against seasoned opponents. Astaroth's zoning is full of holes, VERY prone to JG and generally more tricky than solid. But you're totally right when it comes to defense in SC5. At least for Astaroth ! That's my main issue though. I'm not sure every others characters are forced to try a more active defense all the time, when Astaroth is limited in that respect.

Alright I'll try to illustrate my issue. I think Raphael and Nightmare are both weaker than Astaroth (by far for Raphael) but in the same time, I think those two characters can shine better in the hands of top, dominating players. With Astaroth, I feel I can only use my superior mindgame and ring control, where as my others assets do not really come into play, or barely. Astaroth do not gain a lot by JG, careful movements and such. Like I said, I feel you have to press on his 2 strongs points and that's it.

Hear me well, I still think that's enough to win if you're good enough with guessing and ring control. But the whole design of Astaroth has been pushed to the max in SC5, making him a parody of himself IMO. I really think he's limiting my game right now.

I starting to think this is more of a comfort thing. I find that his tools are pretty great for keeping people away. I may not be a seasoned tourney veteran like yourself, but I believe that it is very possible to be successful with his long range tools. If you'd like I could give you my reasoning as to why, but I'm a bit wary of starting a theory war...we all know how those end up here on 8way.

I am also not really convinced that Astaroth is completely two dimensional. Although again, if you want to hear my reasoning as to why, I'll give you a write up.

 

[Saitoh]

I starting to think this is more of a comfort thing. I find that his tools are pretty great for keeping people away. I may not be a seasoned tourney veteran like yourself, but I believe that it is very possible to be successful with his long range tools. If you'd like I could give you my reasoning as to why, but I'm a bit wary of starting a theory war...we all know how those end up here on 8way.

I am also not really convinced that Astaroth is completely two dimensional. Although again, if you want to hear my reasoning as to why, I'll give you a write up.

I'll be glad to read it. Please PM me if you do not want to post it up there =)