Astaroth: Sc5 Wishlist

Chickenwing

[10] Knight
Ok, now that we know SC5 is in the works, the most that we can do (since asta isn't even a confirmed character yet.) Is to make a wishlist. This wishlist SHOULD contain the following

Buffs: Moves that need desperate help, however they should also be balanced as well.
Nerfs: Moves that need to be reduced somehow someway to make the character more balanced. YES, please add nerfs as much as we don't want to, let's try to mention something ok?

Move issues: This is more open, maybe you have an issue on frames of a certain moves, or properties of a move. whatever the case may be. Discuss it, let's get it out there!
since i'm at work i'll start something, and I'll add to my list as i have time.

Issues:
66B - should NOT be just a high. It needs to be back to being high and sp. mid It's asta's primary punishing tool, as well as a great deterrant for people that love to duck.

A Command Grab - Needs a different animation to where your opponet is grounded. SC2 & SC3's animation was fine.

Buffs:
2A: should be -12 on block and should have positive frames on hit.

I'll add more later...
 
Buffs: 2B+K_A+G needs more damage (not too much), Demented moon needs to be faster, 8B+K should be faster 1K_A...make A a mid and maybe the whole move less unsafe.
Nerfs: If I really had to choose, I'd say make command grabs harder to execute.

Move Issues:
66B- One of Asta's best punishing tools...and its a HIGH....make it a sp. mid again.


Thats all I can think of really.
 
Buffs:
*2A+K connects at i24, it's Asta's only A+K attack I think, it deserves more possibly make it faster? Or replace it with another attack? Adding a new move or two should be essential to most characters in SC5, I say Asta could use at least 2 more A+K attacks...
*Agreed 66B needs to be a SM, and unpunishable, at least -9~-10 on grd., and net more advantage on hit (like +5)...
*Buff his sidestep please?
*!!!Increase damage on Demented Moon!!!
*Increase saftey and speed of 22A*22AA
*Characters in general should have 3 primary costumes (does this count?)...
*!!!Replace Demented Moon!!!
*Replace or buff 2A+K...
*Replace 33A...
*Replace 11*77K with a new move, 44K is the true stop... 11*77K should be a new Low attack?
Nerfs:
*Asta is supposed to be slow, and I know many will disagree but his 6A is ridiculous at i12, i14 at the fastest please, I know you can play around it but when it hits it hurts too good for i12... Not as broken as "Ear Slicer" but just doesn't look fitting in Asta's arsenal when it's that fast...
 
Highly agree with 66B being sp. mid and separate command grab animations.

6A is fine. It's unsafe as hell and only good on CH as well it's a high.

And this isn't needed per say...but please make 214A have combo set ups off bounces. 614:B+G into 214A would just look epic.
 
Buff:
Bring back some Poseidon Tide power. 214A,A,A is nearly useless in SC4, give it back some tracking-evasive proprieties.
66B AT LEAST Special Mid. Better frames on block, c'mon, it's linear as hell.
4B: wider range, it's too short now.
A,B: more stragger on the second hit plz.
22B/22B_4: larger hitbox up close, it randomly whiffs too often.
6B+K: I find its frames (both on hit and block) just stupid. The result is that nearly nobody is using it.
B, A: We want again the move frome SC1-2! It was a really nice spacing tools, we don't want to play asta only as a bullrush/throw whore!
3A+B/3(A+B): some guaranteed damage, or at least a tech crouch window. Or else, this will reamain one of the many useless moves.

Nerf:
with 66B back with decent frames and hitbox (not only high!), crouch throws could be shortened a bit.

Changes:
Please give us different throw animations: like command throws, if Jf, a different animation plz, with maybe different wakeup/followup options. Could be nice.
And PLEASE make Poseidon Tide a Ring out Move! We are all dreaming it since SC1!
 
Asta is fine imo. Hes one of the best characters in the game. Doesnt really need anything. His mixup mind games are insane already. Maybe some counters to stances maybe?
 
Asta is fine imo. Hes one of the best characters in the game. Doesnt really need anything. His mixup mind games are insane already. Maybe some counters to stances maybe?

Asta needs no counters to stances or whatever.

BTW, nice thread chickemwing. Atsa section was dead long enough imo.

Anyway. my wishlist:

buffs:
Posidon tide change back to SC(DC). Harder to execute, but way more evasive than nowadays and correct hitbox.
66AB(especially the B move) back from SCII plz. I hate what they did to that with SCIII...
6K remains the same, but only -12! on block(prepatchSCIV).
1B same as in SCIV but RO again and with a correct hitbox. The end of the axe does whiff sometimes in SCIV.
4B should be +5( in SCIV it is +4) on block like in SC(DC).
4A +/- 0 on block again(like in SC DC).
4B longer range again. But not as long as 4B
2K should bring the opponent in crouch position again.
6AB much safer. -18 is ridicioulus.

Nerfs:

Terminate Just frame cm-throws. I wonder why no one mentioned this. Asta´s normal cm-throws are really good enough, no need for this crazy stuff. Execution should stay like in SCIV.
Crouch throws shouldn´t be i13. Maybe i14/15
28 B+G air cm-throw shouldn´t ring out. Or the jump forward distance should be reduced.

important but maybe to hot:

66B... sp mid again... Woah that´s actually what i want... too. But that move was crazy... really crazy. If it is sp-mid again, then it shouldn´t be i15 also but i16(like 4B is nowadays). Or it can be like in SC(DC), which was only high too, but it dealed some crazy damage on close hit(60+) and gave many + frames. .
 
I don't know about 6AB being safer, the point of it is to catch CH and the A is i12. I think its serves its purpose, really fast high interupt that can deal good damage, but if you do the followup without CH you get hit with a chunk of damage. I think its fine as is.
 
I don't know about 6AB being safer, the point of it is to catch CH and the A is i12. I think its serves its purpose, really fast high interupt that can deal good damage, but if you do the followup without CH you get hit with a chunk of damage. I think its fine as is.

You know, in the end 6AB isn´t that important for me. But -18 on block... lol I mean come on, it´s Astaroth striking with his gigantic 2 meters axe! ;)
 
And that is why 3B is safe lol, but the B followuup has to have heavy risk invovled or it becomes carelessly spammable.
 
Buffs:

More pushback. In the past, Astaroth controled the ring with his attacks. On hit, your opponent was more than likely have their back to the edge, and on block, he spaced out so good that you could still have mixups while at disadvantaged. This was why SC3 Astaroth was the best incarnation so far. In 4, however, he has no pushback to his attacks on block, so opponents can stay more on the offensive and Asta only gets one shot at dealing damage when he has the advantage. If they would bring back the pushback, Asta would have a better time fighting the likes of Amy, Mitsu, and Sets.

More SG Damage. Before the patch, Astaroth had a good SG damage game, where 12 Block Bullrushes = CF. Not only that, alot of his moves did good SG damage, forcing the opponent to deal with those moves other that just blocking them. After the patch, his SG game is nonexistant. Yeah, 44b, 22b is still good, but the move that needed to keep that SG damage is the move we use the most: Bullrush. If they would beef up the SG damage to bullrush, then Astaroth will have better control of bad matchups.

Bring 214A back to SC1 mode. PT used to be one of the most feared moves in SC, changing the whole match with one swing. Ever since Asta can no longer move backwards during the first swing, and they trashed the evasive properties, PT is useless. Asta needs PT, as the threat of taking 1/3 life when at a small disadvantage was very strong, and forced opponents to think twice about taking their turn when they had the advantage. Also, let it combo off of full charged bullrush and full charged 22[k] again. High risk for higher reward.

Those 3 buffs are all that Astaroth needs, imho. All of his moves can stay the same.
 
With 6AB, they should increase frames on hit so the delay will always let the second hit combo for a nifty hit confirm... It would be fair to leave it at -18 (heck make it -20) if this was a change... Making it an i13 attack would balance this out further... + Frames on normal hit so 2K can frame trap at least would be nice...
His K should have a followup like KB if it's gonna be i15, and [K] should change into a Mid attack (which would make for some fun tech traps...
Should his A be faster like i18??? This seems like something Asta needs...
A major nerf bullrush at -12 on grd at close range...
Increase tracking with second hit of BB...
6B+K needs to be safe~ish~er (agreed but around -11 or -12)...
@Gemini: Yeah the pushback is a big deal, I didn't think about that, it would be nice if Asta's new mechanic for SC5 allowed him to use a certain set of moves to pushback the opponent a great deal... Like new A+K moves or something...
 
Uhm, what? Bullrush -12 close range!? No way. I guess no one here wants that here too.

And why not make 6AB really better/safer? It´s impossible to spam that move anyway as long as the range of 6A is shitty.
 
Ok, I've came up with a buff for Astaroth's PT: Make it G cancelable during startup, and make it to where you can cancel PT with any throw, for example:

214A~G = Startup but no PT

214A~63214A+G = Startup but instead of PT you get command throw

214A~2B+G = Startup but instead of PT you get crouch throw

214A~2A+K = Startup but instead of PT you get ground throw

214A~28B+G = Startup but instead of PT you get air throw


This would give PT a new and greatly appreciated role: to set up a high risk high reward mind game against the opponent, as this would be very strong against step G and your opponent may be reluctant to try and GI PT. What could even make this better is if the startup of PT became 5 to 7 frames faster, this would be the only buff that Astaroth would need. I wouldn't even care if they never bring back the PT properties from SC1. With this buff, opponents can't afford to be at a disadvantage while in PT range, because if I can identify how my opponent will react when they get in range, I can control the match. This may not make the Ivy matchup any better, but it will surely even out his other unfavorable matchups at least.
 
Good idea Gemini, one thing though, if 214A~63214A+G was the throw you wouldn't need Titan Bomb as an option cause his A+G catches air anyway... If Asta's gonna be a heavy hitter in SC5 he needs nerfs too to balanace out all this buffed BS... I know, buffs are just easier to think about... Like "his A+B needs more range!!!"
 
Good idea Gemini, one thing though, if 214A~63214A+G was the throw you wouldn't need Titan Bomb as an option cause his A+G catches air anyway...

That's exactly what I want: a high risk high reward mixup that consumes time despite the outcome. Plus, trying to pull off PT during a match will just be part of the pressure, because Amy and Ivy will have more opportunities to pressure Asta.

If Asta's gonna be a heavy hitter in SC5 he needs nerfs too to balanace out all this buffed BS... I know, buffs are just easier to think about... Like "his A+B needs more range!!!"

To me, Asta got nerfed going from 3 to 4, with loss of pushback, 4B with shorter range, full charged 4B has pushback(leaving you with little options for pressure without having to dash in), 4A having more negative frames on block, 6B+K frames all messed up, 2K not force crouch on hit, 3A+B is at its slowest on non charged startup, nerfed SG damage, etc. If I had to go with a nerf or two, for me, it would be to get rid of the JF command throws(or add more damage and more difficulty in doing them) and make 6K -15 0r -16 on block.

I also got another idea with my PT/command throw cancel: Implement it with 66A:

66A 214A (insert command throw)

The 66A animation could be changed to make this work.
 
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