Characters who need a good "buff" in the future
- Thread starter HolyForce
- Start date
Twelve
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
It's not worse either, but it is funny when people get all angry about losing.
It's not worse either, but it is funny when people get all angry about losing.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
This is now the "reform kuro's way of thinking" thread
This is now the "reform kuro's way of thinking" thread
Radar
[08] Mercenary
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
Hilde
-Needs more range
-Far better ring out priority
-C2[A]A needs to come out on block
-FC C3 needs to be a low that stuns on normal
-Her wall grab should do more damage
-C4 and [A] should be fully charged at 15 seconds
-Soul Gauge damage needs to be increased
-Doom combo should do 30 more dmg
-Overall, her moves need to be safer
-Increase the window of her auto-GI
Anybody wanna buy some crack off me?
Hilde
-Needs more range
-Far better ring out priority
-C2[A]A needs to come out on block
-FC C3 needs to be a low that stuns on normal
-Her wall grab should do more damage
-C4 and [A] should be fully charged at 15 seconds
-Soul Gauge damage needs to be increased
-Doom combo should do 30 more dmg
-Overall, her moves need to be safer
-Increase the window of her auto-GI
Anybody wanna buy some crack off me?
BelovedChild
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
HolyForce and others talking about how horrible Raphael's prep is....You guys are completely disregarding the fact that this only applies so much on a prep entrance being BLOCKED. On hit/CH, the prep game is good, especially going +10 into it.
vs high level players you don't use prep that much anyway, just something every Raphael player settles with.
To the person that said prep needs to be "downgraded" however....you sir....are out of your FUCKING MIND. Why don't you look at Kilik's 1B/WR B and Asura, or Algol's Bubble spacing before making those decisions. Raphael's already has a miserable time trying to compete with the high tier cast and the sisters, you take anything else away from him and then he's completely not worth maining.
HolyForce and others talking about how horrible Raphael's prep is....You guys are completely disregarding the fact that this only applies so much on a prep entrance being BLOCKED. On hit/CH, the prep game is good, especially going +10 into it.
vs high level players you don't use prep that much anyway, just something every Raphael player settles with.
To the person that said prep needs to be "downgraded" however....you sir....are out of your FUCKING MIND. Why don't you look at Kilik's 1B/WR B and Asura, or Algol's Bubble spacing before making those decisions. Raphael's already has a miserable time trying to compete with the high tier cast and the sisters, you take anything else away from him and then he's completely not worth maining.
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
prep is kinda bad beloved
theres nothing particularly good about it
going +10 into a shitty stance doesn't make it better, it just makes it going +10 into a shitty stance
your better off transitioning into SEA/VE
no disrespect
prep is kinda bad beloved
theres nothing particularly good about it
going +10 into a shitty stance doesn't make it better, it just makes it going +10 into a shitty stance
your better off transitioning into SEA/VE
no disrespect
BelovedChild
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
see, SE's are PART of Prep, you can't say prep is shit but SEA B is good. That's prep. VE is whatever, because you can VE OUTSIDE of prep, you CANNOT go into the Shadow evades without Prep. As far as I'm concerned, SEA/SEB is PREP. That's like saying Taki's PO sucks ass but hovers great.
So when you say Prep just sucks period, even going in +10, think about it as an entire picture. You KNOW every Raphael player here will talk shit about how bad our character is vs the high tier roster, but Hudathan, Trolt, me, and whoever are still Throwing around Prep game whenever the hell we can get away with it.
Also remember, Raphael has good frames to play with from the SE's
on block
SEA A +0
SEA B +2 going INTO prep
SEB A +2
SEB B -2
Here's the deal: The only time I'd say prep is dead in the water is vs characters who can COMPLETELY DESTROY IT, like Amy, X, Taki, Cass, and Cervy and Kilik's 1B spam. Otherwise, Prep is
-generally weak and easily punishable if the prep entrance was blocked
- has decent mixups and potential if not, but is still punishable on hit/CH.
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SE's are part of prep. VE I understand because you can VE without prep, but prep is a REQUIREMENT to get into the Shadow Evades. Saying don't prep but SE is like telling a Taki player to not use posession, but hover all you want.
Prep isn't that great. It's not like a combo/damage dealing life line like Mitsu's relic/mist, but you guys are making it out like it's just SOOOOOO BAD THAT NO RAPHAEL USER WOULD EVER USE PREP. This is not true.
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I didn't know that first part posted, so sorry for reiterating any points.
see, SE's are PART of Prep, you can't say prep is shit but SEA B is good. That's prep. VE is whatever, because you can VE OUTSIDE of prep, you CANNOT go into the Shadow evades without Prep. As far as I'm concerned, SEA/SEB is PREP. That's like saying Taki's PO sucks ass but hovers great.
So when you say Prep just sucks period, even going in +10, think about it as an entire picture. You KNOW every Raphael player here will talk shit about how bad our character is vs the high tier roster, but Hudathan, Trolt, me, and whoever are still Throwing around Prep game whenever the hell we can get away with it.
Also remember, Raphael has good frames to play with from the SE's
on block
SEA A +0
SEA B +2 going INTO prep
SEB A +2
SEB B -2
Here's the deal: The only time I'd say prep is dead in the water is vs characters who can COMPLETELY DESTROY IT, like Amy, X, Taki, Cass, and Cervy and Kilik's 1B spam. Otherwise, Prep is
-generally weak and easily punishable if the prep entrance was blocked
- has decent mixups and potential if not, but is still punishable on hit/CH.
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SE's are part of prep. VE I understand because you can VE without prep, but prep is a REQUIREMENT to get into the Shadow Evades. Saying don't prep but SE is like telling a Taki player to not use posession, but hover all you want.
Prep isn't that great. It's not like a combo/damage dealing life line like Mitsu's relic/mist, but you guys are making it out like it's just SOOOOOO BAD THAT NO RAPHAEL USER WOULD EVER USE PREP. This is not true.
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I didn't know that first part posted, so sorry for reiterating any points.
Rocksteady
[08] Mercenary
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
Zas could use a few safer close-range options seeing as how he likes to pull you in so much. Also, he could really benefit from a safe low.
Zas could use a few safer close-range options seeing as how he likes to pull you in so much. Also, he could really benefit from a safe low.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
asking for a safe low in SC4 is a bit much
asking for a safe low in SC4 is a bit much
Eyce_Theon
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
From what I've seen, Zas doesn't even have the tools to excel at his own playstyle. If his frames and properties were heavily reworked, I could see him being awesome. At least he's not Talim.
I feel sorry for Rock too. Slowly but surely he's lost his ability to swing anything more than two feet in front of his own face. I don't see his glory days ever returning unless someone at Namco picks up a copy of SE/SC1 and realizes what they did to him.
From what I've seen, Zas doesn't even have the tools to excel at his own playstyle. If his frames and properties were heavily reworked, I could see him being awesome. At least he's not Talim.
I feel sorry for Rock too. Slowly but surely he's lost his ability to swing anything more than two feet in front of his own face. I don't see his glory days ever returning unless someone at Namco picks up a copy of SE/SC1 and realizes what they did to him.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
The thing with Rock is that they do changes to him constantly (trying to improve, fuck him up more, I don't know really) but at the same time, they change Astaroth as well and ALWAYS for the better.
There hasn't been one game where Rock (SC2 Berserker doesn't count) has been better than Astaroth since Astaroth's insertion. Hell, in SC1 is where they have been closest in the tiers and Astaroth was Top 5 there.
Namco decided for Astaroth's to retain the better moves of Rock and experiment with new styles on Rock and it shows in SC3 and 4. However, in AE Rock was decent (mid tier) and in SC4 pre-patch, he was solid mid with potential to be even better.
Namco IMO, should keep Astaroth stagnant since he already has the better moves of original Rock and since Rock is for all effects, the most grappling dependent, make Rock throws do sick damage, not the other way around. No sense in making a grappler that doesn't hurt as much with his throws but make another who isn't as grappling dependent but his throws hurt.
The thing with Rock is that they do changes to him constantly (trying to improve, fuck him up more, I don't know really) but at the same time, they change Astaroth as well and ALWAYS for the better.
There hasn't been one game where Rock (SC2 Berserker doesn't count) has been better than Astaroth since Astaroth's insertion. Hell, in SC1 is where they have been closest in the tiers and Astaroth was Top 5 there.
Namco decided for Astaroth's to retain the better moves of Rock and experiment with new styles on Rock and it shows in SC3 and 4. However, in AE Rock was decent (mid tier) and in SC4 pre-patch, he was solid mid with potential to be even better.
Namco IMO, should keep Astaroth stagnant since he already has the better moves of original Rock and since Rock is for all effects, the most grappling dependent, make Rock throws do sick damage, not the other way around. No sense in making a grappler that doesn't hurt as much with his throws but make another who isn't as grappling dependent but his throws hurt.
Eyce_Theon
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
Pretty much, yeah. Astaroth was the SC1 clone (basically) of the grapple/heavy hitter character, but instead of splitting the playstyle up between them both Namco worked hard to improve it through Astaroth and gave Rock the ability to ragdoll shit with major hitbox issues. It's like they started to make Rock an epic grappler while making SCIV, but somewhere along the line they just said "Fuck it", cut Rock's movelist in half and upped Asta's damage.
Pretty much, yeah. Astaroth was the SC1 clone (basically) of the grapple/heavy hitter character, but instead of splitting the playstyle up between them both Namco worked hard to improve it through Astaroth and gave Rock the ability to ragdoll shit with major hitbox issues. It's like they started to make Rock an epic grappler while making SCIV, but somewhere along the line they just said "Fuck it", cut Rock's movelist in half and upped Asta's damage.
Tiamat
[11] Champion
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
Honestly, rock should have an air grab like asta A+G that automatcially becomes a grab if they jump. no reason for asta to have it but not rock. should also make his A grab do about 10 more damage
Honestly, rock should have an air grab like asta A+G that automatcially becomes a grab if they jump. no reason for asta to have it but not rock. should also make his A grab do about 10 more damage
Twelve
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
It's also dumb that Astaroth can break back throws, but Rock can't.
It's also dumb that Astaroth can break back throws, but Rock can't.
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
im saying get out of prep when ever possible
its a unsafe advancing non cancelable stance that can be stepped the only time you should ever get away with prep is in combos
im saying get out of prep when ever possible
its a unsafe advancing non cancelable stance that can be stepped the only time you should ever get away with prep is in combos
D_Matt_Ma
[10] Knight
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
If Rock's 4B knocked down on normal hit as well, we wouldn't be having this discussion of Rock being weak. One move does make the difference. I hope somebody at NB takes my suggestion that I have been requesting for who knows how long now and make 4B knock down on normal hit. It would solve half the problems Rock has.
If Rock's 4B knocked down on normal hit as well, we wouldn't be having this discussion of Rock being weak. One move does make the difference. I hope somebody at NB takes my suggestion that I have been requesting for who knows how long now and make 4B knock down on normal hit. It would solve half the problems Rock has.
Eyce_Theon
[09] Warrior
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
I don't think changing 4B's properties alone would fix the multitude of problems Rock has. It would give him a beastly short-range/grounding interrupt, yeah, but it would nullify pretty much all of his other options except grabbing at that range. I wouldn't just want a good move or two to change his strategy to win, I just want Rock to "not suck" overall.
My main thing is changing Rock's ground grabs to enlarge their "head" and "feet" hitboxes/radius. It would make him a shitload more consistent when trying to grapple. Not many things in this game are more frustrating than Rock missing grabs for being barely 10 degrees off-axis.
I don't think changing 4B's properties alone would fix the multitude of problems Rock has. It would give him a beastly short-range/grounding interrupt, yeah, but it would nullify pretty much all of his other options except grabbing at that range. I wouldn't just want a good move or two to change his strategy to win, I just want Rock to "not suck" overall.
My main thing is changing Rock's ground grabs to enlarge their "head" and "feet" hitboxes/radius. It would make him a shitload more consistent when trying to grapple. Not many things in this game are more frustrating than Rock missing grabs for being barely 10 degrees off-axis.
Prymo
[08] Mercenary
Characters who need a good "buff" in the futur
This is totally my opinion but I see it like this:
Characters who need a Major buff:
-Rock
-Yoda
Characters who need a Medium buff:
-Mi-Na
-Zasalamel
Characters who need a Minor buff:
-Tira (Fix her mood changes and self-hurt whiffs etc.)
-Talim (Her damage scaling and need to work for your combo's)
-Yun-Seong (Overal unsafeness, I feel Crane stance is balanced)
-Raphael (The stepping issue, also as discussed above Prep to a minor degree)
-Maxi ( I don't play him but people say he has some issues aswell.)
The rest are either fine or better then fine.
To be honest I think the best balanced fighter is Voldo, he almost has everything you need.
This is totally my opinion but I see it like this:
Characters who need a Major buff:
-Rock
-Yoda
Characters who need a Medium buff:
-Mi-Na
-Zasalamel
Characters who need a Minor buff:
-Tira (Fix her mood changes and self-hurt whiffs etc.)
-Talim (Her damage scaling and need to work for your combo's)
-Yun-Seong (Overal unsafeness, I feel Crane stance is balanced)
-Raphael (The stepping issue, also as discussed above Prep to a minor degree)
-Maxi ( I don't play him but people say he has some issues aswell.)
The rest are either fine or better then fine.
To be honest I think the best balanced fighter is Voldo, he almost has everything you need.