Combo & Tech Trap Discussion Thread.

SWBeta

SWBeta

[08] Mercenary
Information credit goes to CF Nightmare boards.

Normal
• GS A > 4KK > 33B
• 66A > 236KK
• 66B > iWS [B ] > NSS bA
• 66B > 33B6~GS KK
• 4A > iFC A+G_B+G (this doesn't give you a back grab anymore)

Counter
• CH 6K > 33B (this doesn't really work usually anymore)
• CH GS [B ] > NSS b:A
• CH 3A2A6 > GS KK
• CH NSS K > iFC A+G_B+G
• CH GS A > A+G_B+G

Wall
• (Near Wall) bA6~GS A > a[B ] > NSS K > 2A+B
• 4G_1G (W) > 33B6~GS B_BT B+K
• 1A6~GS KK (W; far) > 44BB
• 1A6~GS KK(W; far) > 4KK > 3A2A6~GS KK
• 1A6~GS KK (W) > 4KK > 2A+B
• a[B ]~NSS K (W) > 2A+B
• a[B ]~NSS K (W) > GS KK, 2A+B_66K
• a[B ]~NSS K(W) > GS KK, 3A2A6~GS KK
• a[B ]~NSS K (W; far) > 3A2A6~GS KK

Tech Traps
- 3B (tech) 1A (may need to hold this slightly to catch all sides)
- 3B, (tech) 1[A] (This will not hit just be forced block)
- 33B, (tech) 66B


*Notes:
- 33B cannot be done at close range or else it's left techable.
- 1[A] is a very slight charge.
- If they decide not to tech: 33B, 1A, but this opens up possibilities for 33B, 44BB.


Quoted from Shen Rii from CF. Credit goes to him:
3B, 1[A] is a tech trap as well.
You can 3B after 4KK (wall).
You can 4KK after GS KK (wall).

What does that mean? It means that Nightmare's a monster at wall.
Here's an example, will do a vid sometime this week on this:

33B [28 dmg], opp left ukemi
1[a]6~GS KK (wall far), 4KK (wall), 3B [89 dmg], opp left ukemi
1[a]6~GS KK, 4KK [81 dmg], opp left ukemi
33B [28 dmg], opp left ukemi
1[a]6~GS KK (wall), 4KK (wall), 3B [89 dmg], etc etc

This however is harder than it sounds, a few factors come in:
-Opp can ukemi to the right, yes it still tech traps* but it allows them to escape from the wall.
-Opp can lie down on the floor and eat some minor dmg.
-There are various wall splats, a low one guarantees nothing.

*At wall splat 4KK knockdown to open space, opp can ukemi to the right to avoid a launcher. You can hit them with 33B still if you are fast but it won't launch.
Click to expand...

Tiamat edit:
Wallcombos (from guide):

Wall Combos (w=wallsplat):
- B+G (w) > 2A+B (92 dmg)
- FC B+G (w) > G > 4KK > 44B (67 dmg)
- FC B+G (w) > G (turn around) > 4KK (wall) > 4KK (wall) > 2A+B (73 dmg)
- FC B+G (w) > A+G/B+G for back grab, don't grab immediately or will miss (89 dmg)
- 1A6 GS KK (w) 44B[B| (character specific, 95 dmg)
- NSS [A] > NSS b:A (w) > 44B (104 dmg, 92 if no JF)
- CH 66K6 (w) > GS [B ] > NSS bA (w) > 2A+B
- 66B+K (wall) > WS [B ] > NSS A+B > 2A+B (88)
- 66B > 33B6 > GS KK (wall) > 2A+B (depending on distance from wall options change greatly)
- CH/SC WS [B| > NSS A+B > GS KK (w) > 4KK (w) > iWR K (70 dmg throw setup)
- CH/SC WS [B| > NSS A+B > GS KK (w) > 4KK (w) > 3B (launch) > 2A+B (77 dmg)
- CH/SC WS [B| > NSS A+B > GS KK (w) > 4KK (w) > 3A2A6 > GS KK (w) (83)
- CH GS A > 4KK (w) > iWS B NSS A+B GS KK (w) (70 dmg) > 4KK/1K (throw setup)/2[K]/1[A]
- CH 11K (w) > iWR B > NSS A+B > GS KK (w) > 4KK or 1K (throw setup). on sieg and most males you can add 2A+B after 4KK if aligned right
- CH 11K (w) > 44B (must be aligned right to hit soph, much more consistent on sieg) 74 dmg

iagA combos courtesy of LGInfinite:
 
IMO nightmare's best tech trap in SC4 is FC A+G > 33B. traps all techs against algol and astaroth, but it escapable by right tech from other characters.

I haven't posted this one on caliburforum yet:
near wall tech trap
GS > NSS [A]
 
look at my guide instead or...I suppose I could change the color myself


ACTUALLY nevermind, just look at my guide please, I am way too lazy to change the color since almost everything in the post is colored x__x forgive me
 
My bad, people. I'll change the font colors in a bit.

EDIT: Removed all FC grab > throw combos/tech traps.
 
hey SWBeta,

You put 66B -> 22_88B back into the techtrap category, from my findings its not a techtrap because you can't tech after 66B, nor a combo because I can easily block it when I test it.
 
Like I told ya in PM, Schneider, I will retest and edit if the info is wrong. I don't have a PS3, so I don't have the liberty of testing whenever I feel like. I will visit a friend with the game tomorrow and test.

If I remember correctly, it's actually a combo, but has a really strict timing. But I will double check and get back to you on the matter.

Or if Tiamat or someone else can test it, that would also be swell.
 
Tiamat said:
IMO nightmare's best tech trap in SC4 is FC A+G > 33B. traps all techs against algol and astaroth, but it escapable by right tech from other characters.

I haven't posted this one on caliburforum yet:
near wall tech trap
GS > NSS [A]
Click to expand...
Actually I don't know whether this is old news but that tech trap will miss against Ivy, except if against the wall.
 
Character Specific Combos and Tech Traps

Nightmare has a lot of character specific combos and tech traps in this game. I'll be updating this post as I find things.


don't worry this will get more organized as i start to be able to fit characters into categories, lol


Combos

1A6 GS KK (w) > 44BB always whiffs (amy)
1A6 GS KK (w) > GS KK x 3 usually will work (amy)

1A6 GS KK (w) > 44BB always works (sieg/al)
1A6 GS KK (w) > GS KK x 2 work, cannot get 3 (sieg/al)

44BB usually whiff vs sophie, however, from a really odd side angle it will work
GS KK x 2 works

Tech Traps

Sophie/Cass:
33B 66B left techable unless max range 33B. luckily after FC A+G trap they will be at max range. 33B > GS B traps all up close, but far away it doesn't. against cass nothing really works. screw cass, but use a condom

nothing seems to trap all sides and be guaranteed after NSS A+B. =[


Amy/taki:
33B 66B works at max range like vs sophie, but if she left teched and got hit by the FC A+G trap, you wont land the 33B at max range like vs sophie. wtf?

33B/NSS A+B > GS B traps all sides+guaranteed

NM/sieg/asta/cervy/mitsu/setsuka:
NSS A+B > 66B always works. 33B 66B always works
NSS A+B > GS B always works

Raph, algol:
he ukemi SLOW?! WTF. if you want to tech trap him after NSS A+B with GS B you must delay it, but then it will be blockable. 66B left techable after either launcher

Ivy:
flapjack trap techable to either side and she's out of range of 1[A] too

33B > GS B trap works. 33B > 66B fails

NSS A+B she is like algol/raph, which sucks

FC A+G > 33B trap:
astaroth, algol, kilik, mina taki, zas cannot escape. other chars can tech right. if kilik/mina right techs they will end up behind you

ivy can side tech or back tech to either side

CH GS A > 4KK > 3B combo+trap:
mitsu can right ukemi to evade 33B, but 3B will trap and guaranteed

taki cannot ukemi 33B
 
Character Specific Combos and Tech Traps

COPY OF A POST BY GREVEN ON CF

Here comes the results of some traps i tested:

3B :
chars who need delay on 1A, other are guaranteed with no delay
Amy, Cervantes, Hilde, Maxi, Misturugi, Nightmare, Setsuka, Siegfried, Talim

CH 3B :
chars who can roll 1A(delayed) to the left, other are guaranteed
Algol, Amy, Cassandra, Seung-Mina, Sophitia, Xiang, YunSung

Step left 3B :
chars who eat 66B in tech trap
Astaroth, Cervantes, Hilde, Kilik, Maxi, Misturugi, Rock, Setsuka, Talim, Voldo, Yoshimitsu
chars who eat 1A delayed:
Algol, Nightmare, Siegfried, Tira, Zassalamel
chars who eat a mixup between 1A(left) and delayed version(right), 66B can be used insted but techable:
Amy, Cassandra, Yvy, Raphael, Seung, Sophitia, Taki, Xing, Yunsung
chars who eat the mixup but with the other tech:
lizzard

Step right 3B :
chars who can roll left the 1A (u can catch them with iWS A, every other are trapped by 1A)
Cassandra, mitsu, seung, Sophitia, Xiang, yunsung

3B (front, no tech) :
chars who eat 4A+B (but can stand and JI)
Nightmare, Rock, Zassa
chars who get trapped if launched with the tip of 3B
astaroth, kilik

NSS A+B :
chars who get trapped by 66B
Cervanted, lizz, mitsu, night, rock, sieg, talim, voldo, yoshi
chars who get trapped by 66B delayed
asta, hilde, maxi, setsu
remaining chars who get trapped by GS B
algol, amy, taki
remaining chars who get trapped by GS B delayed
Raphael, setsu
remaining chars who get trapped by 1A delayed
cassandra, kilik, seung, sophitia, xiang, yunsung, zassa
remaining chars who cant get trapped (use 2A+B or what u want)
Yvy, tira

33B :
chars who get trapped by 66B
Asta, cervantes, hilde, lizzard, maxi, mitsu, night, rock, setsu, sieg, talim, voldo, yoshi, zassa
remaining chars who get trapped by GS B
Algol, amy, kilik, raph, taki, tira, yunsung
remaining chars who get trapped by 1A delayed
cassandra, ivy, seung, sophi, xiang

2A+B :
chars who evade 3B by rolling right
hilde, seung

FC A+G :
chars who get trapped by 33B, other can tech right
algol, asta, kilik, seung, taki, yunsung, zassa

CH GS A > 4KK :
chars who can tech right to evade 33B
cervy, hilde, maxi, mitsu, night, setsu, sieg, voldo, yoshi

CH NSS K :
chars who can tech 2A+B (use GS KK then)
asta, rock

2[K] :
chars who can tech 2A+B (use GS KK then)
asta, cervy, hilde, lizz, night, rock, setsu, sieg, talim, voldo, yoshi

A+G :
chars who can roll right the 2A+B (use 3B then)
amy, cassandra, hilde, ivy, lizz, seung, setsu, sophitia, voldo, xiang


Thats all folk. Hope its correct and usefull for ya.

Last edited by Greven on 13th Oct 2008 at 07:02
 
here's something I got from old videos by Asenka in SCIII.

66B -> a -> NSS b:A does about 84 dmg, not sure if that's JF version or not

it seems to be glitchy though. Sometimes it will hit, and other times it won't. Seems to be a whiffing problem since sometimes the NSS b:A will pass through the opponent but not hit. I have a vid I took that I can upload eventually.
 
I got updates to do on the list, coz i tested 2A+B traps when Nightmare was the second player and we all know that 2A+B as strange properties when 2nd.
Anyway use 3B instead of 2A+B coz it works 100% and if u delay it u can even tech trap them (works on all chars)

CH NSS K :
Chars who cant tech 2A+B:
Kilik, Rapahel, Zassalamel

2[K] :
just add mistu to the list of people who can evade 2A+B

A+G:
just add talim to the list of people who can roll both sides 2A+B


note: i just figured out that FC A+G into 33B(tech trap) into 66B_GS B(tech trap) is really kewl
 
People were mentioning this last night in flashchat.

33B6 -> BT A+B

I'm pretty sure it has to be a standing BT A+B as opposed to the GS version. This trap is not particularly good, but it is manly nonetheless.
 
microgamer said:
People were mentioning this last night in flashchat.

33B6 -> BT A+B

I'm pretty sure it has to be a standing BT A+B as opposed to the GS version. This trap is not particularly good, but it is manly nonetheless.
Click to expand...


haha that's interesting it's like NM saying "can't touch me!" boom! then again, the starting animation for A+B kinda gives away.
 
It was I who found that trap thanks to LAU pestering me lol. 33B A+B works fine but doesn't catch back tech. No one techs back anyway so you're good. 44B becomes the juice when they stop teching. But if they do tech back you can catch that with 4[K]B:B.
 
some "new" combos for you guys

probably useless: side hit bA > 33B6 is combo

side hit bA6 > GS A > a NSS K > ender. excluding the ender this combo does 70 damage, I plan to use it in some matchups, as this is more damage than you can get from a side hit 33B or 3B combo. I wouldn't bother with it on characters that use a lot of steppable moves that recover in TC though.

other new combo is a fun one that so far only works on amy!!! ive tried sets, cas, so, as, hild, ta, ra, al, and it just doesn't work. if you find someone else this is gauranteed on let me know

FC B+G > BT 2B
combo+tech trap all tech direction vs amy only
compared to BT 2K combo, damage goes up from 29 > 38, and if they tech you do a little more. now go FC B+G amy for being a cheeser! XD
 
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