Jimbonator
[14] Master
Well yeah if we cherry pick certain facts from things then yes we can paint certain moves and things as bad and terrible.
Just look at this soul arena.
Dampierre Q&A / General Discussion
- Thread starter Ooofmatic
- Start date
Just look at this soul arena.
Alex.J
[14] Master
As someone that plays Damp, I do believe he has all the tools he needs to win in the hands of a smart player. Under the hands of MKH Spartan, I see where the issue comes into play.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
If a character deals damage, they can win. I just don't think he is very good, simple as that.
- Moderator
- #404
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
[notice]Please pay attention: Dampierre discussion goes in this Soul Arena. It does NOT go in the Siegfried Soul Arena.[/notice]
Wyde
[11] Champion
The -28 is only a problem if people start punishing it for maximum damage. In my (limited) experience, no player has ever done this yet, and he's practically a secondary. People still think Mitsurugi's 2KB and Ezio' 6K2 are good, despite being ridiculously unsafe on block, so why not Dampierre's 1B?
Also, despite most of the recent posts getting moved to this thread from the Sigfried SA as a result of an offhand comment, it's nice to see people finally discussing this character again. He needs so much more love, and hopefully some top player attention one day.
- Moderator
- #406
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
His hellsweep is not good unless you consistently get 11K without the entrance, and consistency is not something found in Dampierre's random moves. 11K ~ PB and 11KK ~ PB will get you launched every single time, even on hit.
Wyde
[11] Champion
I only use it sometimes as a followup for moves like 3K, 66A and 22B, since it leads into a possible Poker Bluff mixup. Even though it's easy in theory for your opponent to hit you out of PB attacks with a generic 2B or 2K (Or siegfried's WR B ;_;), you can hold G instead and block the retaliation. As far as I know, it's the same thing with your opponent dealing with a "failed" 623B on reaction if they're on point. It shouldn't hurt too much to test the opponent's reactions though: if they know how to deal with it, fine. If not, abuse. =]
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
I agree with the guy who said namco should have brought back Zas instead of wasting their time with Damp.
Simple reason: Popularity. Just look around, there are tons of people, top players or not, who want Zas back.
Who plays Damp? A few people? How many people would miss him if he didn't return in a later game? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Make this happen namco. They should make a huge poll for the next game, and statistically see which characters are in high demand. I guarantee you more people would vote for Zas, or Talim, than Damp.
Simple reason: Popularity. Just look around, there are tons of people, top players or not, who want Zas back.
Who plays Damp? A few people? How many people would miss him if he didn't return in a later game? I sure as hell wouldn't.
Make this happen namco. They should make a huge poll for the next game, and statistically see which characters are in high demand. I guarantee you more people would vote for Zas, or Talim, than Damp.
IRM
[12] Conqueror
Donutman stop acting like you can block things on reaction when you eat Maxi 2A+B like a hungry Hooker.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
On another note, PS intended to make a joke character, and he ended up being better than some of the characters that they actually intended to be good.
Just goes to show that they're shitty at balancing SC.
Just goes to show that they're shitty at balancing SC.
Wyde
[11] Champion
But that's the thing: he is a good character, and I believe it was Project Soul's intention to simply dress him up as a joke. Yes he has legitimate weaknesses like difficulties with spacing, poor block punishment and a good handful of truly bad/pointless moves, but he has a lot of things going for him with basics, baiting, mixups etc. as well as meterless damage potential that exceeds most of the cast, and is far from impossible to land.
If you want to get into character balance, it is my immodest opinion that no character is outright bad: it's just that the best characters are so much better on paper, so we just happen to have a range of "okay" (eg. Z.W.E.I.) to "ridiculous" (eg. Alpha, Viola).
Slade
[14] Master
If I'm not mistaken, 11K/11KK hits grounded opponents and leads into (safe?) PB mixups in that situation.
Jimbonator
[14] Master
Yo did you not see the conversation I had with Spartan?
Why are you posting this crap?
- Admin
- #414
Party Wolf
Administrator
I think the joke character was designed to be funny... I don't know why people think he is designed purely to be a terrible character. What incentive would Project Soul have to make a character that is designed to be unviable? C'mon guys.
Wyde
[11] Champion
I looked into it recently: the opponent can hit him out of any PB attack if they immediately get up and use a generic 2B or a fast enough equivalent (Astaroth 4B, Siegfried WR B etc.). Dampierre can get up and hold G to block a retaliation if they do indeed do that, though. Kind of gimmicky if you ask me, but it's something else that can take advantage of ignorance I guess.
ChaosK
[13] Hero
This only works after 11KK though, after 11K he seems to have more frame advantage.
Btw wrB wouldn't work for sieg because it doesnt hit grounded. Actually no wr moves would work for that matter because 11K/KK leaves you backturned on KND.
What i found useful against this is to roll back, he doesnt have an option against that it seems!?
Wyde
[11] Champion
I've tested that, and as far as I know, it doesn't make a difference, assuming the opponent holds G instead of using an ukemi. I haven't tested the latter, though.
I've looked at this, and it looks like things do change when backturned, but I can only think of landing 22B, sidewalking and then using 11KK to engineer a backturn actually happening: I find the opponent is usually left getting up facing forwards mostly, otherwise. If a backturn does happen, though, PB A+G/B+G then beats anything slower than a generic 2K, and PB B techjumps over 2K.
Side rolls escape it as well, which pretty much makes all of the above moot (unless their backs are to the edge or something, I guess) as well as sleeping and waiting for a PB move to whiff. Like I say, gimmicks. =T
Also, here's some more extra tech that I found out for myself in the lab today:
- 66A > 1K at closest range hits sleeping opponents and catches left/right ukemis with no need to account for charge time (then obviously the built in FP sleep/ukemi mixup can follow). A delayed 2A+B catches all directions.
- 22B > 4 > 8B+K combos for 50-53 damage most of the time.
- If you use the combo 22B/3K > 44K* and all three rolls come out, 2K both hits grounded and ukemi traps in all directions. Get dat tap damage.
- If, for whatever reason, you end up landing with feet facing your opponent after GBing them with FP B, PB KK is guaranteed.
- My new preferred followup for 3K and WR K is 22_88K. For two less points of damage than 1B, it gives a few more frames of oki.
AZYG4LYFE
Play FFRK
Yes, you have enough +frames (+17?) for the attempt, picked on this months ago, very nice you found this for yourself nonetheless.
AZ
ChaosK
[13] Hero
Oh sry i didn't mean getting hit by 11K while being backturned, i meant that (CH) 11K leaves you backturned when it knocks down (face up, feet away). So you dont have WR moves available in this position, unless you roll (which means you wont be fast enough to interrupt anymore).
Edit: Just found out that with 11KK it depends on wether you hit them out of sidestep or backstep. Against sidestep it leaves them face down feet forward, against backstep face up feet forward. Might be character specific (tested against sieg).
Results vary a bit with how the opponent air controls. I was able to sometimes land sideways face down, at this angle while rising moves are available.