Heaven's Net Casts Wide: Yoshimitsu General Discussion

Zaden said:
According to an online manual, :B::B::B: lethal hit has nothing to do with backstep, and occurs when the opponent gets with with it while they have 2 full bars of meter.

I think :2::2::A: lethal hit seems to occur when you hit a side-walking opponent, but I am not sure.

:6::6::B+K: has a really tight, janky lethal hit. You have to vault over a low attack, which seems really weird to me because during a handspring vault, you're only off the ground for a fraction of a second due to his hands touching the ground during the flip. I have no idea where the low crush is.

:6::A: supposedly lethal hits if you've done soul absorb 10 times.
Click to expand...
22A is also a full meter LH, so I've heard.

66B+K is a fairly late TJ, starting at frame 11 in SCV, but still usable for going over 2As at -2. Unfortunately, it doesn't LH on special lows. Even so, I landed this LH surprisingly often since Yoshi is normally weak to long range low pokes like Siegfried 2A and Ivy 1A. People like to use those to end rounds. As the combo, you get an easy confirm into the full 66B+KA+BK string which gives a high launch right behind you where can do whatever. 4AA+B followup here will result in a long range ring out. 9K ground bounce is surely possible.
 
Seems like the DGF air grab has a JF landing that gives you a decent bit of meter if you're successful. I'd assume you press K on the landing like how you would with the old SDGF K backflip.
If by looking at the Yoshimitsu reveal trailer when it showcases 3B > DGF > A+B, it seems that the air grab also has a non-JF landing. I wonder if it also has the potential to fail and hurt Yoshi similarly to SDGF K.
The BBB JF though... doesn't really look like anything happens.
 
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So to answer your questions...

In both cases, you get more meter. Damage (and recovery?) stays the same.

You can perform the DGF throw landing without just frame. It does give meter too, but less than the just frame version. You perform the landing by hitting :K: as he hits the ground and you can also fail the landing and fall over on your back, so in that sense, it's same as SDGF :K:; however, it does not reduce your health if you fall. It only leaves you open for a big ground hit while Yoshi takes his time to get back up again. Also, the timing didn't seem too strict, as I was able to perform it fairly regularly.

The just frame you all saw after :B::B::B: is not :B::B::B: exclusive. I think you can get it after all soul absorptions, as I definitely did manage to do it after :4::B: too. I think it's performed by pressing :4: at the right time, as far as I could tell anyway. And as I've mentioned earlier, it gives you more meter, but unfortunately, it doesn't steal more meter from the opponent.

With all that said... I was worried at first now that iMCF, :4::A:::A:::A:::A:::A: and Ear Slicer just frames are gone I won't have anything "flashy" to do, but with the soul absorption mechanic, it appears that I'll get to flash just frames even more than ever before lol.
 
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Anyone have any tech on yoshimitsu's soul charge? I was able to hit about 9.2k points in the beta with the two days I had. I found that when i get into SC, i had trouble getting back in, usually had to go in with wRaBE to get any type of frame advantage over my opponent and by the time I got to that state, i was out of SC juice. Also can we like speed hover closer to the enemy like we used to do in DGF stance? Like where you held A+B in the direction and you flew forward faster? Also couldnt figure out how to get into SDGF if it does exist, I never saw it.
 
Im guessing the right timing for soul steal JF is the moment when the soul enters him (or when he flashes yellow, same thing really)

RE: soul charge
In theory his approach doesn't change from when he is outside SC, but because you want to make the most out of it and the opponent is very aware of your now powered up state, you will most likely be overly (and predictably) aggresive while the opponent takes a more defensive stance. If you want to guarantee mixup after SC, then you will have to use it within a combo so they land directly in front of you when they get hit by the activation. Try to bait by looking aggresive and take advantage of the fact that the opponent will likely try to take defensive swings at you to keep you out, and try to whiff punish those swings. Once you are in you should be able to stay in with Brave Edge guard breaks

You can try SDGF shenanigans to try and get in also i guess. It's 8B+K while in DGF (soul charge only)
 
@KilBils @JustCallMeJoe

Also use dash G to press forward, basically the usual getting-in techniques. Coming in with counter hits that can use BEs like doing 66 6BBA+B or 66 half-circle-back 44bB is worth trying, and dash iFC 3K RCC 3(B) for whiff punish or otherwise is good for starting up pressure.

Another way to use Soul Charge is as a counter Soul Charge. When the opponent uses it, keep them out if you can with A and B pokes or delay them in other ways, then when they're in a threatening position, Soul Charge yourself. Now they're behind you in SC time, so they want to use it soon, so you won't have any trouble closing the gap. If they back off, you can relax if you want, you both used Soul Charge and you've used up their meter, which is important.

But the best way to use Soul Charge is when they're by a wall or ring edge and you're close. They don't get pushed away from you and they can't escape a barrage of AAA+Bs. If any of them hit, you can get a huge wall combo. They can use a tech crouch to stop this, but you also have 3AB wallsplat on that. By the ring edge, 3BB/3(B)~DGF mixups are deadly.
 
@Signia @lolo @rudeb0y @hAppY and anyone else with a good understanding of Yoshimitsu in SC6.

Hey guys, so I'm working with a YouTube content creator called @Scallywag-93 to make beginner introductions guides for SC6 and one of the videos that's being worked on is a introduction profile of each character to hopefully get it out near or on release date.

Looking just to get abit of info from you guys aswell to ensure the Yoshimitsu part of the video is accurate.
Please could you answer these questions: (doesn't have to be in detail)

1. His stand out strengths?
2. His stand out weakness?
3. Any important stand out moves and why are important?
4. Easy/Intermediate/Hard in terms of execution?
5. Easy/Intermediate/Hard in terms of gameplan and complexity?
6. Overall archtype / what kind of player the character will suit?

Thanks again.
 
@Signia Thank you for the tips! I will definitely try to incorporate them into my play. In the meantime, have a clip of absolute disrespect I captured during the beta. Literally zero respect

@AndyrooSC
1. He's overall safer and quite a bit faster in this game, however it might feel that way because this game plays much faster than soul calibur 5. They made sure to touch base on a lot of his moves being hit confirmable, which is absolutely fantastic.
2. The changes from 5's moveset make him feel different while feeling the same. After 1000's of hours on 5's Yoshi, I still found myself at home with the character. Thats a downside imo. A true downside i noticed he has, is getting back in after getting kept out by someone like Ivy. Keep away against Sieg and Ivy are definitely two frustrating games one doesnt usually want to play as yoshi.
3. b:A is a great move, looks anime as fuck and gives meter. Dont have the frame data yet so i cant tell if its safe, but almost everyone that tried to like AA or BB punish it, couldn't. wR A BE is great as well as you get a full ass combo off of ducking a throw, personally I like doing wR A BE ~DGF A+B ~ jf K on the landing to gain back the meter i just used in the combo. Otherwise, for max damage, you can do Sig's alternative which is: WR A BE ~DGF B 236KK.
4. Intermediate, not as intensive with Just frames like iMCF or a:B+K as he was in five, so i would give him an intermediate because of the attuned skill that yoshi players gain with learning how to hitconfirm.
5. I'd say hard in terms of gameplan and complexity since the character inherently has so many mixups and things you can do to interlude on not only your combos but the mind games you can play on your opponent. Stance shenanigans like the clip I linked above are just one of many strategies you can utilize as yoshimitsu against players of all types, vets and noobs.
6. He fits anyone who can play a longer game, methodical punishes definitely benefit a yoshimitsu player as he can have wacky ass combos with his meter burned moves. He also fits an aggressive player due to his rush down and as we call it "blending" up someone when you start doing safe strings, stance changes and other slightly disrespectful things in front of a guarding players face. The best of both worlds.
 
@AndyrooSC
1. His stand out strengths?
Meter gain, Attack speed, movement speed, strong mids, strong lows, wide array of moves that do extra damage on counter hit, wall pressure and ring out distance, evasive moves, lots of different offensive approaches available especially up close that are very effective. Also has a wide array of options for tricky play, like damaging yourself to gain meter or doing a move that kills both your and your opponent when you're up in rounds to close out a match.

2. His stand out weakness?
Lack of range and lack of whiff punish damage from mid range on unless he has meter and the whiff is big enough (his Critical Edge has infinite range though is a bit slow). Expect to be bullied by long range and fast mid range attacks which can be overcome by good movement, careful spacing, and placement of counter hits and dashes.

3. Any important stand out moves and why are important?
* His AA and BB are very fast and have CH confirm extensions AAA+B which costs meter and BBB which gains meter.
* Full Crouch 3K is a low sweep that's fast, damaging, mid range, only borderline reactable -- very unsafe -- but very threatening.
* 1K is a fast low that does a nice chunk of damage, is only mildly unsafe, and lets you continue pressure.
* Three excellent mids to compliment those are 66B, 3B, and 6A+B, first allowing you to continue pressure on block and the latter two transitioning to stances or strings for a further mixup that keeps them safer on block.
* b:A, 44bB, 6BBA+B, a few a other counter hit moves are there to stop them from keeping your threatening close range mixup game out with incessant attacking.
* Evades like 44K (crouches under highs), 9K (jumps over lows), and 22A (sidesteps then crouches) can go around attacks in various ways, too.

And I could on, he has so many A grade options, enough to overwhelm the opponent with possibilities and be versatile enough to cover lots of different combinations of options or go for hard reads. (I should also mention 2B+KK, or MED K, a long range lunging mid kick that leaves you Dragonfly stance, a nice way to force yourself in.)

4. Easy/Intermediate/Hard in terms of execution?
Intermediate to hard difficulty in execution of combos and key moves and required CH confirming to make the most out of the character.

5. Easy/Intermediate/Hard in terms of gameplan and complexity?
It's possible to play him very simply and mid/low mixup oriented and be effective (though high risk) but his unique meter management and strategies that take advantage of stage position reward him to an extent that Yoshimitsu players can expect to be rewarded for effective long term strategic choices more than when playing other characters.

6. Overall archtype / what kind of player the character will suit?
Speedy offensive character, not necessarily "rushdown" as that implies staying in the opponent's face -- instead he tends to push the opponent away, which forces him to get in again, until they're cornered, where the offense can be overwhelming. Passive-aggressive and even defensive playstyles can work in many matchups.
 
@AndyrooSC , what Signia said :), I couldn't have said it better.

His mixup game improved a lot with the ground damage buff he got, thanks to 3B being so good, that's even better with SC since you add a fast unblockable to the mix, but his mid-long range options despite now having a full screen CE, are not any good, us Yoshi players, will take some time to adjust to the lack of a move like that.

I just want to add to point 6, through the years I've seen many different styles of Yoshi players, and this iteration, will fit even more styles, he can be played purely defensive since he has good punishment in general and good evasive options. I would say he has the tools to fit almost any type of player, depending how deep you wanna go, which is not needed, vs good punisher chars, I prefer to player rather safely, so I mostly beat them with basics, AA, BB, grabs, which are very strong with Yoshi.
VS defensive players, I have to risk it more to opening them, gimmicks here and there, a lot of lows despite getting punishment, but once they cracked, is mixup city.
 
OK so the just frames after soul steal..

It's not actually a just frame

It's an indicator to let you know you've had 10 hit the opponent.. so as a guide as to when things like 6A will LH

b:A doesn't work from crouched anymore :(
 
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Guard gauge starts flashing yellow at 60%. Red is 80%.

Some GB damage - not tested every move this is just getting started..

FLE K - 16% (doesn't land on standing guard consistently unless by wall against Groh? Works if they block a FLE hop first)
A+B - 15%
(A+B) - 15%
FLE (B) - 15%
66A+B - 15%
44b:A - 13% (need to check if jails)
4A+B - 9%
FLE B - 9%
FLE A+B 9%
2B - 9% (safe, even at lowest level - tested against Groh AA)
bA/b:A - 9% (!!! breaks guard !!!)
236K - 9%
6A+B 9%
3B - 6%
4AAA - 5%
BB - 4%
FC3K - 4%
22KK - 4%
MCF - 2%


Like SCV, need to use a particular move to break guard (take over the 99%)

SC doesn't seem to affect GB damage

8 whiffs of GI is enough to flash yellow (60%)

b:A just frame feels like a true just frame, like SCV iMCF (only way to land it consistently for me is to land it with iMCF SCV speed). The b:A version covers greater distance
 
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Has anyone else discovered that if you hold :8: after his 4A Brave Edge he recovers facing instead of back turned? I'm not sure if this an exploit or an intended input since he ends up a little cock-eyed, but it definitely allows for better follow-ups.
 
@Zaden you can also use 2 instead of 8. it sets up some 44B+K combos like this one:

22B 8K 4AA+B (press and hold 2 in the second half of the spin to turnaround) 44B+K 3BB
 
Zaden said:
Has anyone else discovered that if you hold :8: after his 4A Brave Edge he recovers facing instead of back turned? I'm not sure if this an exploit or an intended input since he ends up a little cock-eyed, but it definitely allows for better follow-ups.
Click to expand...
Several combos added to the combo thread Saturday use this, it's very important as it gives Yoshi access to big damage with a half bar (90-136) on anything involving 4AA+B.
 
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