Hilde Guide & Strategy Discussion

Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

@ Billypatches

I dunno, I've been more or less mild mannered through every post on this thread, if you've been following the posts, hopefully you have a feel for the tone that I use. =p

The point I was making, came from when I origially brought up a point about opponents selecting walled stages to fight vs Hilde. My stance is that walls make Hilde win less. Others point out that they don't care, because they have a throw that does 94ish when they hit a wall. I agree, it does that 94 damage. I suggest, back to my original point, RO better.

I feel that you've taken my sarcasm out of context as I've no intention really of offending anyone. On the other hand, I really didn't direct the comments at anyone, I was just responding to the que of posts from when I went out of state. Those were my opinions to those who would want to listen.

On something more to the topic, 94 damage on a wall from a throw is great, most other characters don't have a simple high damage wall throw like this. Hilde likes this advantage, and lots.

~Fei
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

Fei said:
@ Billypatches

I dunno, I've been more or less mild mannered through every post on this thread, if you've been following the posts, hopefully you have a feel for the tone that I use. =p

The point I was making, came from when I origially brought up a point about opponents selecting walled stages to fight vs Hilde. My stance is that walls make Hilde win less. Others point out that they don't care, because they have a throw that does 94ish when they hit a wall. I agree, it does that 94 damage. I suggest, back to my original point, RO better.

I feel that you've taken my sarcasm out of context as I've no intention really of offending anyone. On the other hand, I really didn't direct the comments at anyone, I was just responding to the que of posts from when I went out of state. Those were my opinions to those who would want to listen.

On something more to the topic, 94 damage on a wall from a throw is great, most other characters don't have a simple high damage wall throw like this. Hilde likes this advantage, and lots.

~Fei
Click to expand...

yeah i was a bit flustered from the heat when i wrote that but yeah i get what you mean.

Anyways is there anyway for 44K, C2 B,B to connect when you do it from your opponents back turned? am i not timing it properly or is it just impossible?
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

Sup, my first post here on 8wayrun... been posting over at caliburforum's hilde section for a little bit now...

First off, I think Hilde is mid tier online, and probably close to top tier offline... There is a huge reasoning behind this... With any tiny lag, Hilde's efficiency drops way down, especially on her C2A and C3As... The biggest Advantage Hilde have is that her MOST USED move C2A and C3A carries auto-GI ability which statically speaking have higher natural GI potential out of every other character, of course unless they ONLY GI. The GI goes way down when fighting online with subtle lag because as we all know, GI timing is pretty strict. There is a night and day difference between playing Hilde online and offline. And skatanmilla and others have corrected me over at caliburforum that online exp and offline exp with Hilde is very much different.

Now for her "bread and butter" C3B, 44K, C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA, I strongly suggest that you only do it on characters that you have no problem doing it on i.e. nightmare... this combo is not really "consistent" per say, because outside of the "easy" target zone, the combo timing is different for EVERY ONE... Algol, Amy, Yoshimitsu, etc... they ALL have different timing... unless you have some awesome muscle memory I suggest not doing it on those combo because wiffing the C3A after the C2BB, can lead to fatal deaths especially against those characters.

Alternative is probably the C3B, B+K, C2BB, C2AA for the larger characters like Algol, and Astaroth. for Amy, and Yoshi who you have trouble skewing them with B+K I suggest, C3B, C3A, C2BB, C2AA.

C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA does very little damage for some unknown reason... about as much as
C3A, C2BB, C2AA... the damage scaling is very messed up. For those that have trouble doing multiple charges, C3B, 44K, 4A+B also does OK damage.

Hilde's Kick are pretty awesome in my opinion
1_7K Moves her back (maybe tech jumps too) for nice spacing. Not to mention, that using C2BB, or C3B after 11_77K looks almost like a combo because they transition so well.

11_77K is nice low that ducks a bit slow.

2K is fast and her nice long leg gives her some reach.

1KK is a nice two stage low-mid kick. It catches those who thinks that against Hilde doesn't need to duck because she hardly grabs since she needs to charge.

33_99K the famous Hilde tackle gives stun. If you time it right, it catches those in 8-way run too I believe.

Do I need to mention the ridiculous 90+ damage 6,4 B+G throw against the wall... especially when people pick those enclosed stages XD~~~

For those thinking it's not possible to play Hilde on Pad, it's not very hard once you have the correct button configuration. I don't know what this hate is against button binding, but I don't think my control scheme is that broken.

L2: Anything
L1: K

R2: B
R1: B

Square: A
Triangle: A+K
Circle: B+K
X: G

Using the above scheme you get access to all A, B, K, G with your hand in natural controller position on the DualShock 3. You don't really have to even anything to triangle and circle. I just do it because it's unnatural for me to do L1 and R1 in a synchronized manner XD~ I bound 2x Bs because I find it that on some moves ESPECIALLY FC C3B, 44K, C2BB... without sliding from R1 to R2, you need VERY VERY VERY fast finger to even get your C2BB ready after the 44K.
 
Top 10 Moves: Hilde

1. All Charges Standing/FC
2. 1_7K
3. 2A+B, K
4. 6,4 B+G (command grab, against the wall for wooping 95 damage...)
5. 44_99K
6. 6A+K
7. 6A+B
8. 1KK
9. While Standing, B
10. K

notice all those Ks!! she has awesome Ks :x
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

haha errorrrr, that's an interesting bind system you've got going.

Mine's -
^ - B
[] - A
O - K
X - G

R1 - A
R2 - B
L1 -A+K
L2 - B+G

Mostly because moves like A+B, A+G, B+K, K+G are easy to do (since the buttons are next to each other) where as A+K and B+G are a little harder. And I like being able to still use my A attacks when charging A.

yes - I'm cheap like that.
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

@ errorrrr : A really great post! Welcome to the Hilde thread at 8wr!

You make some good analogies with offline and online Hilde. Here's my opinion =p Hilde is like you say probably alittle lower online... BUT I wouldn't move her an entire tier from High to Mid. But that you feel this way only shows how much she really crutches on the threat of C2,3 A and C3 B. When online with Hilde, she can't use her defensive tools as well as she would offline, specifically breaking throws. Other than breaking throws, there's a small touch you have to add to her C juggles to make them work. But she is still very strong online(you called her mid, which I'm assuming you think she's good online too =p ). For example (online), her C A's are even harder to deal with since you get just enough advantage on block to do some magical C1A or C3B's that wouldn't normally land.

You're right when it comes to character specific juggles. If you can't do the best juggle most of the time, you should be doing something that does as much as you can. However, I feel that memorizing the timing for EVERY character is important eventually.

A freebie from me: Did you know Taki (seemingly small character) and Nightmare (pretty fat) are just as easy to juggle wth her main C3 launch? =p

About Kicks:

Hilde Kicks are great, please mention 22K! 22KA is Nc!! So good =p

About Button Mapping:

I play Hilde with two fingers on face of the buttons, my index and middle ringer, left hand index and middle on L1 L2. This makes it so I can switch between characters without having to deal with messy remapping of buttons.

~Fei
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

Runis said:
haha errorrrr, that's an interesting bind system you've got going.

Mine's -
^ - B
[] - A
O - K
X - G

R1 - A
R2 - B
L1 -A+K
L2 - B+G

Mostly because moves like A+B, A+G, B+K, K+G are easy to do (since the buttons are next to each other) where as A+K and B+G are a little harder. And I like being able to still use my A attacks when charging A.

yes - I'm cheap like that.
Click to expand...

I use the same except R1 is B, L1 is A, R2 is A+K, and L2 is B+G.

I suggest trying that out instead runis, it makes constantly holding A and B down much easier and natural in my opinion.
 
Top 10 Moves: Hilde

1) C3B - Ph34r it!!!
2) 3A - Tech crouch that leads into huge advantage for combo/mixup opportunities.
3) 2A - Hilde's main option for stopping pressure.
4) C3A - Auto-GI, tech crouch, combo starter . . . hell, if it made brownies, it'd be perfect.
5) FC C2B - Fast launcher that leads into her best combo.
6) FC C3B - NC combo that does excellent damage
7) 3K - Excellent range and speed
8) 2A+K - A little on the slow side, but otherwise an excellent low that leads to KD or front RO
9) 1K,K - Good low poke.
10) 6A+K - Stop that. Now.

And just because:

11)4B+K - THIS. IS. SPARTA!
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

My setup for Hilde's still close to default with the exception that I set
R2 = G
L2 = A

I was too used to how the button setup was for Soul Calibur II on Gamecube so, that's how I left it. Although, it's been a long while since I played that, so I could be wrong.
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

errorrrr said:
[...]
C3B, 44K, C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA, I strongly suggest that you only do it on characters that you have no problem doing it on i.e. nightmare... this combo is not really "consistent" per say, because outside of the "easy" target zone, the combo timing is different for EVERY ONE
[...]
Click to expand...

Yeah this is unfortunately true, it's even more annoying online - when you are in a lag battle. Still I can't get it into my head to use another combo. At least against Rock and Asta I end the combo with 8K now, but other than that I am too hard headed too learn it seems :/
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

In my experience... Hilde's biggest downfall comes from:

1. Being Thrown
2. Predictability
3. Maneuverability

I really think there is are stages in growth about Hilde playing. Drawing from my experience I've noticed the following stages:

1. Hilde without charges, using "cheap" NCs and normal pokes, then growing into
2. Using extensive charges, playing too much turtling into
3. Lesser charges, give up the charge game A LOT earlier when it's not working, and breaking up charges into small section of the entire match.
4. Future stage, the perfect combination of non-charge and charge.

I think playing at stage 1, makes Hilde below mid, playing Hilde in the second stage with just charges easily maker her dangerous against most scrubs, and playing at the third stage will make a Hilde player a much more round out threat. The fourth stage is where she truely shines. Throwing in that C3B just the right moment, GIing crazy with the Charge As. The fourth stage seems like a far-fetched idea, but I think playing at that level makes Hilde a top tier character.

Playing at stage 2 encounters the vulnerability of maneuverability and getting thrown easily. I think I am not just speaking for myself but a lot of upcoming Hilde players that are just getting used to charges likes to play with the pattern, block block block, OOH LOOK A SLOWER MOVE, UNLEASH CHARGE COMBO OF DOOM, MWHAHHAHAH. Rinse and repeat. This works really well against most button spammers and low level scrubs. But against some people who are throw happy (like my own roommate) it just spells doom for you hilde. Not only does throw can break you out of your Charge As... this has happend to me quite often if you just a tad slower, especially when they have a + frame upon you blocking it's VERY FRUSTRATING; break also has GREAT tracking for some unknown reason...

Stage 2 also has the problem of predictability: throwing charges out in pairs, like charge A first, OOH frame advantage, might as well throw another charge out! This gets predictable, and my roomate (he is my guinea pig XD~) and easily countered especially if your second hit is a B because he starts to step the second hit and retaliate.

From stage 2 to stage 3, I think there will be a big improvement for you Hilde players out there. As defensive measures, I suggest keep distance (basic), stepping/8 way run A LOT (basic), CROUCH Block at the right time!!! (medium). While doing all this, keep your charges up! This will get rid of some of her maneuverability issues, and getting thrown. However, there are always those low throws, but I dont' think those should be getting you outside of their combos...

Secondly, know when to drop your charge tactics... Not only charging lose you A and B arsenal ( you can use them but you have to drop your charge...), it also doesn't let you tech out of throws... know when to release your button and tech out throws...

Thirdly, use charges to tempt your opponent. Especially C3B, and C2A/C3As... they are great bait tools in my opinion. C3B has a nice range, and the As give advantage on block. Use those as breathing room as well as punishment tools. Don't hesitate using your charges. From my experience, I've never had a time when my Charges are UNWANTED. (Not saying I always have the best charge at any time I want, but at least they are useful charges, albeit not the best).

Lastly, start throwing with Hilde... her B series grab are awesome... B+G does good damage for a normal throw, as well as ring out behind you!! if they like to push you to the edge instead of you pushing them to the edge, throw them behind you! Next, 6,4 B+G is your best friend against those people who thinks Hilde is horrible without her Ring-outs. 6,4 B+G does amazing damage up against the wall.

Final final advice: Ring-outs should NOT be your Hilde's MAIN focus. That does not mean CHARGES are NOT the main focus, Charges ARE ESSENTIAL and should be used as often as possible. Use your charges as you would as your normal moves, not as ring out tools. Although they do little damage compare to the effort in using them, but they are great as pokes, damages, combos, whatever.

Hope these tips help people get better at Hilde!
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

Fucking hell errorrrr it's kinda scary the way you describe it so detailed (lol). I am currently somewhere in between stage 2 and 3... tend to be more on the turtle side though against faster character (eg. Taki / Talim) as I am too scared to attack as that usually ends up in receiving a barrage of attacks. :(

Having said that, because I am too scared to attack I eat a lot of throws - and I will never get used to having to GUESS which button I have to press to break the throw. :S

Alright, next goal - reach Stage 3 :D
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

KazuyaSasa said:
Fucking hell errorrrr it's kinda scary the way you describe it so detailed (lol). I am currently somewhere in between stage 2 and 3... tend to be more on the turtle side though against faster character (eg. Taki / Talim) as I am too scared to attack as that usually ends up in receiving a barrage of attacks. :(

Having said that, because I am too scared to attack I eat a lot of throws - and I will never get used to having to GUESS which button I have to press to break the throw. :S

Alright, next goal - reach Stage 3 :D
Click to expand...

Ducking to wiff their throw is also a good combo starter you can start with

Counter-hit: FC C3AKB
FC C2B, 44K, C2BB, C3A, C2BB, C2AA (this requires really fast fingers because you have less time between FC C2B and C2BB than the standing version C3B)
FC C2B, C3A, C2BB, C2AA or FC C2B, 44K, 4A+B both works as alternative.
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

@ errorrrr : Another awesome discussion piece! Where have you been all this time? You needed to be here!

Anywho, your advice is very sound and agreeible. Therefore (as opposed to telling you how right you are even more than I already have), I'm going to shoot to discuss various points you make.

Throwing in that C3B just the right moment, GIing crazy with the Charge As. The fourth stage seems like a far-fetched idea, but I think playing at that level makes Hilde a top tier character.
Click to expand...

With that logic, Rock is probably high tier. See, when you Just Impact everything you get the option of crushing thier soul gauge and exploding them. Throwing the throws they arn't breaking are also godly. =p (I swear it's just me and sarcasm, I see where you're going but your level 4 means something in the nature of reading the future, which is good for all characters.)

Other than that quirp I had, you have amazing insight on the flow of people learning Hilde and the concept down. I especially agree with you with the level 1 note, where you mention she's probably lower than mid tier if you don't use her charges =p Since it was the initial point I made in my first post. =p People are saying she's high tier, enough so where I'm willing to push her up alittle in my own opinions too =p

You mention that charges are always welcome. I've found a few times I'd wish I hadn't had a charge =p Dominantly at rings edge where I'd rather rush in for a 2A for frames and toss out a 4B+K as a frametrap RO (or throw). Instead, I have to hesitate a little and drop off the charge with G first before pushing forth. There are also a few important moments, wher I really wish I had an evasive ranged move like 1B over 11k or 1K, and while charging B, it's a burdon to find spots to release it (either through taping G and release, or letting the move go for the hell of it).

Advice for your stage 2, did you know 1K breaks people? Charge heavy Hildes make people stand. Rushing with charges, makes people stand perfectly still. When rushing, 1K pokes are godly. (Throws too, but 1K breaks down pretty strong players better than throws.)

Lastly, you mention that RO shouldn't be the main focus. I'm going to say that if there is a spot for a RO, you should put RO as a very very high priority. And if RO isn't the highest, I would feel Positioning would be, followed by RO or Charge usage.

Opinions?

~Fei
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

Fei said:
@ errorrrr : Another awesome discussion piece! Where have you been all this time? You needed to be here!

Anywho, your advice is very sound and agreeible. Therefore (as opposed to telling you how right you are even more than I already have), I'm going to shoot to discuss various points you make.



With that logic, Rock is probably high tier. See, when you Just Impact everything you get the option of crushing thier soul gauge and exploding them. Throwing the throws they arn't breaking are also godly. =p (I swear it's just me and sarcasm, I see where you're going but your level 4 means something in the nature of reading the future, which is good for all characters.)

Other than that quirp I had, you have amazing insight on the flow of people learning Hilde and the concept down. I especially agree with you with the level 1 note, where you mention she's probably lower than mid tier if you don't use her charges =p Since it was the initial point I made in my first post. =p People are saying she's high tier, enough so where I'm willing to push her up alittle in my own opinions too =p

You mention that charges are always welcome. I've found a few times I'd wish I hadn't had a charge =p Dominantly at rings edge where I'd rather rush in for a 2A for frames and toss out a 4B+K as a frametrap RO (or throw). Instead, I have to hesitate a little and drop off the charge with G first before pushing forth. There are also a few important moments, wher I really wish I had an evasive ranged move like 1B over 11k or 1K, and while charging B, it's a burdon to find spots to release it (either through taping G and release, or letting the move go for the hell of it).

Advice for your stage 2, did you know 1K breaks people? Charge heavy Hildes make people stand. Rushing with charges, makes people stand perfectly still. When rushing, 1K pokes are godly. (Throws too, but 1K breaks down pretty strong players better than throws.)

Lastly, you mention that RO shouldn't be the main focus. I'm going to say that if there is a spot for a RO, you should put RO as a very very high priority. And if RO isn't the highest, I would feel Positioning would be, followed by RO or Charge usage.

Opinions?

~Fei
Click to expand...

Well, I've never said charges are always welcomed :P I said never "unwanted." I first used "welcomed" in my original post draft, but I scrapped that instead using "Unwanted" instead. Sure, there are better moves, but charges aren't that bad either to toss one out. My original intention with that point was not when you are in control. It's mostly directed to those who are a bit too defensive with Hilde and hording charges. When you are in control, you can easily cancel charges by releasing the charge after pressing G.

There is a difference using Rock as an analogy. I think then it comes down to, when Rock vs Hilde who both "can read the future" who is better argument... so who is better?? It's hard to say. But I think statistically speaking, with the amount of Charge As Hilde use, GIs comes more often when one knows when to do it. A GI not only give Hilde frame advantage, it let's her regain tempo, and control as well as the needed spacing. Hilde NEEDS breathing room in matches. People may think that Hilde as a punisher is a passive character, but I think, Hilde needs to be an active controller in the tempo of the match. In simpler words, Hilde players NEEDS to think further ahead than other character whos immediate action reaps instant benefits.

As for the ROs. I can't really say I don't think about ways to ring them out in a match depending on location, but in a match, there are so many things to process, is planning an awesome looking RO going to do you any good? Also, when you focus too much on RO, and when it fails, you feel kind of distressed thinking what to do next... I can't say I don't get any ROs... in like 200 matches against my room mate's Amy, he had 200 KOs where I had about 300 KOs and 100 ROs... The place was the marsh place with goose and trees. It has opening to the lake. The only timed I planned for the RO was when I was pushed toward the edge where I just B+G him. Other time, my RO came from the C2AA blasts without even THINKING about ROs...

I think my point is, don't THINK too hard on ROs... it comes NATURALLY with Hilde. What if it's a wall instead of the lake when you use C2AA? that's just as good, your opponent gets hit twice in the wall. I think the logic nature of RO is clear. If you don't use charges, there are no ROs. you need to plan Charges, not ROs. Positioning I can't disagree enough, but I think that falls in the tempo control. Utilizing empty space behind you for a easy B+G RO, or wall behind you for an awesome 6,4 B+G is all part of utilizing Hilde to the fullest.
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

I agree on your points again =p

However I want to point out that you're speaking in a way befiting a psychology major. Your discussion feels rather round-about. =p

Anywho~

You and I might have different views on what "planning" means too =p You make it seem as though pushing for a RO is taxing, and when you land (or not land) your RO combo/plan it is mentally taxing. I feel however even if you didn't make that plan, the results would be similiar. If your juggle doesn't RO, then you're happy you have damage, if it is distrupted, then it would be like every other time someone blocked a move (or something in that nature).

Oddball thing but, notice that the marsh stage has 3 walls, 1 open space =p The same as your KO to RO ratio =p Do you think your results would changle similiarly on a small stage with 0 walls? From a stats point of view ofcourse =p


~Fei
 
Starting off Right: A Hilde Guide

You don't really need to prioritize RO with Hilde... if you connect from the center of the stage it'll in most cases happen anyway I'd say. I agree with errorrrr though in terms of how it shouldn't be your P#1 - as when I started learning the charges with her my aim was to gain RO's as quickly as possible, forgetting that there're levels with no such thing. It works a lot better now, but boy did I feel screwed all of a sudden.
 
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