First off i would like to thank you for summarizing the problems and yes i do disagree, but i do see your perspective, as i hear 24/7 by many people.......even outside this website......
JS should be like a Jack of all trades. using fast attack against slow but powerful characters and use slower and stronger attacks against fast but less damaging characters.
yes, i see.
However, in reality her fast attacks are not fast enough or do enough damage against strong character, ie they don't get interrupted as easily and they can kill Tira in much less amount of time than Tira can (eg, 3 combos/attacks vs Tira's 5~10)
JS isn't made to be offensive and pressure based (the type of offense and pressure we know of), its made to be a catalyst for GS and a defensive tool to keep the opponent at bay by causing hesitation and frustration via zoning and keep away, and also limiting the options the opponent has.
The reason why JS is easily killed is probably because people treat JS as the offensive type, she is offensive but in a specific way. She can pressure the opponent, but its not the type of pressure we are familiar with: SG damage, health damage, etc.
Have noticed that most of JS's tools are actually slow, or i guess not as rewarding in general up at close range? moves like 3A, 4A, 4B, 1K, and others are the moves i am referring to because they are very situational and only used sparingly.
However, looking at moves like 66K, 6A, 6B, 66AA, 1B, 22_88B, 22_88A, 44B, 6K, and others that zone and have an advancing step. These moves tend to be used more....
this means that JS is more effective at mid-long range because she can get through an offense more by TCs and TJs at mid to long range and also can be more of a threat when tryng to advance. (im half asleep so just correct me and i will make it more clear)
On the other hand, JS's slower and stronger attacks/combos isn't that much more damaging than the faster characters.
refer to first comment.
it doesn't help that her zoning and spacing is also sub-par mediocrity. JS's longest range moves other than UD is WR A, 66AA and 6B. best push back is 22_88B. each have their own faults and are not as good as the zoning or spacing tools of some characters.
what move doesn't have a fault in this game? Name any move in the game and i can tell you its flaws.
take note that zoning is highly different from spacing. Zoning is using moves to push back away the opponent or set a position by spacing them or something on the lines of that, it is an offensive option.
Spacing, as said previously, can be used by moves....BUT its the defensive characteristic that the move grants by pushing them away, positioning them, etc and in exchange limiting their offense and any other options. Movement is also associated with this and i am sure that you all realize how good Tira's movement is.
anyway establishing spacing/zoning can be made in so many different ways:
1) The old school push away option via a move that has push back...this method is still effective but it now carries risk due to movement being limited because of its increased window and the disadvantage from the move. Ex: you use 1B (-8 on block) and you are forced to block an i15 or faster move. A smart opponent would try to set up force blocks and deal SG damage since they are at a distance......you will block because of being vulnerable to i15 moves and deal with force blocks from slow moves that deal good SG damage, however if the opponent abuses this you get a mix up of either sidestepping (because most mid range moves that deal SG damage are linear), back stepping, JG, or just turtling.
2) starting a spacing game from blocking an opponents move that has push back . Ex: Alpha does 6B at tip range, you then back step and can avoid all of his punishing options including FC 3a:B and barely miss being hit by his CE. oh,and alpha 6B has a lot of push back on block...and he cant really deal with that well if you play safe and waste his meter. This method is character specific and to make it more of a threat you have to have a health advantage. Most people say that JS has a bad punishing game. If she does then back step when at mid range, especially when blocking a move that gives spacing and is -11, instead of giving yourself a disadvantage by retaliating. (just an idea)
3) setting up force blocks on the opponent after blocking a move that creates distance or just has long range. Ex: you block alpha 33B and then retaliate with 1B in order to create a lot of distance. 1B can be JGed or the opponent will retaliate after blocking in order to stop you form a spacing game by movement. However, the opponent will use an advancing horizontal or set up a move that wont allow you to move because of your disadvantage, an i15 move because of Tira 1B being -8 on block. However if your opponent knows your going to set up a force block and they freeze up, you can instead use better moves like 6B.
4) The more offensive option is killing their movement (mainly sidestep). JS is VERY effective at this; 66AA being i18 can make the opponent fear stepping at long range, its even more of a threat because side stepping has an i21 window. 6A is of course is best because its more safe, but its a high. JS can kill movement very well which makes the opponent use advancing and retreating options when your at a disadvantage or when they are at a slight disadavantage and can make her easily set up force blocks with 6B, 1B, and maybe even 66B if your opponent thinks they can just walk right into close range or bait you by back stepping when you have the health advantage.
overall, methods 2 and 4 are best for JS because it fits her design. 1 is based on mind games/mix ups and 3 is based on being calm and guess patient and observing what the opponent does (another mind game/mix up one).
However, everything can be mixed up, it really depends on the player.
what's worse, is that she doesn't have good enough tools to break the zoning of these characters.......you also lack the tools to break the zoning of zoning characters. I'm not saying it's impossible.
If your referring to 66B to 66AA range then this is what you want in JS because you get to transition via A+B, which relatively safe if the opponent tries to retaliate while back stepping (when you see a back step at 66B range go for A+B, its just an idea, try it out and see how it goes.) Whats funny is that some players think of this as a stupid idea, but it isn't. Your thinking ahead and can easily turn the match into your favor especially if its the 1st or 2nd round and you successfully transition into GS.
as for mind games, she lacks good/unique mix ups. there are various tactics you can employee but most don't have good risk:reward ratio (eg, WRBK mix up). you really only have the generic throw/attack type mix up. this is esp true after the nerfing of 66bBE switch chance, which took out a fearsome mix up on wake. the best you can rely on is probably, as suggested by MnT77, doing something so stupid that the opponents don't really expect. Thought that's also arguable and often don't have good risk:reward and can only really work that odd few times.
To make it short and simple: Every character has mind games and mix ups....its just up to how the player utilizes the tools the character has. Aside from that, i have actually given you a few ideas.
A 2K and 2B is a simple mid/low mix up and its disadvantage is being stepped, which is were FC A or AA come into play. every mix up has a hole, just find a way around it by adapting.
as a side note, Ivy is a much better Jack of all trade than JS. She seemed mediocre in every area, and her snake sword can cover short and long distance. Therefore a smart Ivy can often find the weakness in the opponent and exploit it. JS on the other hand is slightly too weak to exploit their weakness as easily.
um your comparing a whole character to a half a character...so yeah. Anyway ivy whip moves aren't really a threat....if she breaks your guard at long range then well, she doesn't get much damage. Her whip moves are only meant to make a decent offense if the opponent tries to space in order to avoid her throw game. Ivy naturally has low damage output, the developers have stated that her core damage is in using her meter which can be canceled by forcing her to GI, and are all mainly close range moves. Ivy is VERY different from Tira and when referring to the ways they apply spacing/zoning its still VERY different.
hope that gave you some ideas. if i wasn't clear on anything just tell me. Just trying to help,
