How will the new timeline diverge from the old?

DanteSC3 said:
None of us really know until the game comes out, to be absolutely clear. But from what has been shown so far, it would appear that the timeline is not diverging, for the purposes of continuing on to the next game in the series. It could be, as there are pieces in play that could possibly change the outcome of certain things, but there isn't enough information to say that it absolutely will be, either.
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hmm...so it could be akin to something like a Street Fighter scenario? Where the chronological order, iirc, is 1, Alpha, 2, 4, 5, 3?

I hope not. I'd much prefer just a soft reboot...
 
Dr. Cheesesteak said:
I hope not. I'd much prefer just a soft reboot...
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I feel silly asking this, but people do know that a "soft reboot" is considered a "soft" reboot because it does not change the established continuity, right?

REBOOT
"That series made money. Let's start the series all over with a new storyline." E.g.: The Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Man Homecoming.

SOFT REBOOT
"That series made money. Let's make another one set in the same universe, but with new audiences in mind. But the story should be pretty much the same as the first one, so that fans don't feel put out." E.g.: Star Wars The Force Awakens, Jurassic World

Soft reboots are compromises. They're meant to be approachable by new audiences (you don't need to know everything that happened previously), but respectful to fans (we didn't erase the continuity that you're familiar with).

In other words, the series has already been soft-rebooted. SoulCalibur 5 was definitely a soft reboot, as Daishi said in interviews that he had wanted to name it Soul Edge 2. However you could argue that every SoulCalibur has been a soft reboot of the original Soul Edge. They've all had the exact same premise (a bunch of warriors from around the world are hunting for Soul Edge) and none of them ask their audience to know anything that happened in the previous game.
 
I won't break down all your inaccuracies, cuz it's a petty debate to begin with. So, I'll just say:

Yes, I'm aware what an actual soft reboot is.
No, every SC was not a soft reboot.
 
Grøh and Azwel are confirmed for Soul Chronicle in the newest trailer. Proof that the timeline has diverged.
 
Proof of nothing, since it was already highly probable that Grøh would convene with Azwel in his side story, and this confirms that, and perhaps vice versa if Azwel does have the line below Grøh. Both of their events seem to conclude before Xianghua vs. Inferno, which still happens, so they didn't have any lasting impact on the main story.

Libra of Soul is where the wild (and likely non-canon) stuff will happen with Grøh and Azwel. They'll likely just be background noise in Soul Chronicle. New events, yes, but nothing that changes key events in the main story, and from that perspective, not diverging.
 
The act of Kilik fighting with Grøh, in and of itself, does not diverge the timeline. It's one of those hidden truths of history that the trailer quote alludes to, but one that doesn't change the outcome of the actual story events, which is what the requirement would be in order to have a divergence.
 
Dude, that in itself is a divergence. Then again, you did say that they could return to the SCV era... when we all know that's not going to happen.
 
They could return to SoulCalibur V's era, if they wanted to. It's not going to happen in this game, and it likely wouldn't happen in SoulCalibur VII either (because they have the events of SoulCalibur II-IV to retrace first), but if they wanted, after they've caught up to SoulCalibur IV, they could go back to SoulCalibur V. Not necessarily in the same way, it may do it without a timeskip, or even if it does timeskip, it may include more characters and flesh everyone out properly as this game seems to be treating its characters. And that's the point where it would diverge, if we do something different there.

But the problem here seems to be your definition of divergence. A small and/or mundane detail being different from the original is not a divergence, but a deviation. To diverge means to go off in a new direction, to change the course, to do things entirely differently. Adding new things we didn't see before is not diverging, unless it alters the events that we did see before, which all signs point to that not being the case, so no, we're not diverging, it doesn't seem like.
 
Yeah, again no. Okubo freely admitted that game put the series on thin ice and if they thought they didn't need to get away with it, they wouldn't have rebooted the series to begin with. What better way to kill all the good will they've built up than by returning to the era that nearly killed the series? Notice how everyone was unanimously happy that they weren't continuing from SCV? Why are you so sure they're going back to it?

It's a reboot. It's new timeline. Get over it.
 
I'm not sure that they would. It is only a possibility. If they don't, then that is a divergence, but that won't happen until, at the earliest, SoulCalibur VIII. The topic at hand, however, is whether or not SoulCalibur VI is a divergence, and it does not appear to be one.
 
DanteSC3 said:
I'm not sure that they would. It is only a possibility. If they don't, then that is a divergence, but that won't happen until, at the earliest, SoulCalibur VIII. The topic at hand, however, is whether or not SoulCalibur VI is a divergence, and it does not appear to be one.
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It is one, and just about everyone gets that but you.
 
Nyte said:
It is one, and just about everyone gets that but you.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

And @DanteSC3 isn't the only person to think the game's a retelling. Okubo himself even described it as such. Everything we've seen so far seems to match all the major SC1 story beats.

But we're really just going around in circles. If your definition of a new storyline just requires a new character to appear and fight an existing character, than clearly this is a new storyline. If your definition of a new storyline requires significant changes, than this looks to be a retelling. (Unless there's some big twist waiting for us in the story.)

I can't help but wonder at how committed you are to the idea that this is a new timeline. If a new character fight is all it takes to change a timeline, how do you feel about all the contradictory endings in the series? In your mind, is there an original SC1 timeline (before the SC2 retcons) where Maxi dies? Is there an SC2 timeline (before SC3 retcons) where Siegfried throws Soul Edge into a chasm and becomes its guardian for eternity? Surely you'd agree that these are significant story differences, right?

I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just curious how you think about stuff like this.
 
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DanteSC3 said:
The act of Kilik fighting with Grøh, in and of itself, does not diverge the timeline. It's one of those hidden truths of history that the trailer quote alludes to
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Nyte said:
Dude, that in itself is a divergence. Then again, you did say that they could return to the SCV era... when we all know that's not going to happen.
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DanteSC3 said:
But the problem here seems to be your definition of divergence. A small and/or mundane detail being different from the original is not a divergence, but a deviation. To diverge means to go off in a new direction, to change the course, to do things entirely differently. Adding new things we didn't see before is not diverging, unless it alters the events that we did see before, which all signs point to that not being the case, so no, we're not diverging, it doesn't seem like.
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Nyte said:
It's a reboot. It's new timeline. Get over it.
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etc etc

This all just seems like this whole debate is rooted in an argument of semantics. Whether something diverges or deviates - and the definitions of those terms - is somewhat irrelevant. We ultimately must decide if any continuity changes will be relevant? This is something we won't know until we play the game. And even if continuity changes, that doesn't necessarily entail a separate timeline than what the series has been.

SC6 can change past continuity and have it still be considered of the original timeline/continuity, aka a retcon.
SC6 can change past continuity and have it develop into its own continuity, separate from the previous games', aka a new timeline/continuity.
SC6 can just show things that the viewer/reader was unaware of that happened, and not technically change past continuity, aka uhh, retroactive exposition? "rexpo"?

We won't know any of these until we play the game and possibly until we see how SCVII pans out, story-wise. Granted, the SC wikia already has it determined to be a new timeline, so...they must be right! ^_^

But in all seriousness, what matters most here isn't even what happens in the story. What matters most is simply how Project Soul defines it themselves. As a comic reader, this issue and discussion comes up all the time. But at least it's almost always clarified by the publishers. In this case, an explicit statement from Project Soul would be cool. But there could be a variety of reasons they haven't fully indulged us how SC6 effects/changes the existing continuity.

Plus, I don't like the term "timeline" to begin with, when dealing w/ fictional continuities. It implies distinct separate ACTIVE universes (i.e. a multiverse, since timelines can be parallel, even after splitting from another), when it's usually actually an entire universe replacement (i.e. an "original timeline" never existed, no need to consider it its own timeline). Unless it's explicitly stated that they are actual separate timelines and not just one continuity wholly replacing another (which may sound like the same thing, but more on this later).

Also, I guess I never actually answered OP, tho, and I like to, even if it's late. I pray to GOD if this is a case where it is separate, unique existing continuities and a character - Algol or anyone else - is aware, then just ugh... I always feel like that's such an uninspired cop out. Again, I much prefer a real reboot w/ SC2-5 never having happened and start w/ a fresh, new take on the SC story, while still maintaining the core elements of the story.

And before there're any questions/debates on this perspective of timelines/continuities, I'll try to use examples we can be familiar with, being in the same medium - video games!

Mortal Kombat 9 - was a narrative soft reboot at first, retelling the MK1-3 story w/ some small changes, until Raiden decided to hard reboot it at the end and wipe away a vital story element (via time travel), causing a new "timeline" that was vastly different from MK4 and beyond. However, the old timeline of MK4-A still "exists" in the sense that it linearly still happened. And if you believe in the multiverse, you should believe that universes' identities can be defined by time, therefore making the old, wiped away timeline still "reachable" by time travel, multiverse travel, etc. The old and new timelines are still part of the same linear continuity.

Tomb Raider - the 2013 series was a hard reboot, a complete change in Lara's (various) previous continuities. Changes in her origin, changes in her family history, changes in her adventures, changes in the dates, changes in her look, attitude, age, etc. Not just big retcons, but a completely hard reboot. The previous continuities ("Original" and "Legends") simply did not exist, never happened. They aren't "separate timelines", but rather they just DON'T EXIST as any part of the current Tomb Raider continuity. The Tomb Raider continuity starts at the 2013 game and the 2013 game alone.

I much prefer the Tomb Raider model of continuity, or "timelines", over MK's. A fresh, true reboot/replacement of continuity, rather than separate timelines set in the same continuity. Neither of which are necessarily dependent on if its a soft or hard reboot - how a continuity is rebooted and how timelines are related to continuities are not mutually dependent.

Hopefully this is as good as it gets for my perspective, b/c this took way too long to type and I don't want to have to do it again. :)
 
The first thing I want to say is that the only thing for sure that will diverge from the old timeline is the stories from my CaS characters Kappa

To be honest I do not think that a lot will change from the old timeline and I think that things will stay the same. Sure, Groh and Azwel are in, but that can be argued that they have always been around and they have never been known. I will say that I feel it is lame that they are playing safe having these two characters being in a secret organization, but said organization does seem to have ties to the one Zasalamel was in or it is the same one he was in. So they have some good merits being in and don't feel out of place like Zwei and to a lesser extent Viola.

The only way I can consider this being a new timeline is if Cervantes never lost Soul Edge and Siegfried still acted like, say, hotheaded. Taki would still save Sophitia's life, but fails to take out the shards that are stuck in Sophitia's wounds and becomes the new Nightmare.

My short answer is that things will likely stay the same.

I also think that we will work our way back to SCV for better or worse.
 
I’m just gonna go ahead and say that if Groh and Azwel are simply only canon for Libra of Souls, I’m going to be pissed. They both have interesting things to deliver to the story, especially the fact that Groh is Kilik’s rival along with Azwel literally absorbing(and seemingly)utilizing both of the soul sword’s powers arguably better than Algol ever did.

The series itself had a lot of potential to begin with story wise but its as if they don’t know what direction to take. I think this whole Aval Organization thing, while weird and quirky, it can bring a lot of interesting things to the table along with possibly making people actually give a crap about the series’ timeline.
 
Thus far, it seems like there really aren't that many divergences. From what we've seen in trailers and other promotional materials, events that happened in SCI still happen, like Xianghua wielding Soulcalibur against Nightmare, Kilik with the Evil Seed, etc. Like I've said before, I consider SCVI more of an expanded remake of SCI, actually dramatizing events that the series made canon after the fact and alluding to future events and maybe putting a twist on some things. Of course, this has led to a few retcons, but most of them make sense. Zasalamel taking part as he was established as some hidden figure in SCIII who had been keeping an eye on things throughout the series, the Aval Organization hinted to be connected to Algol, that kind of stuff actually makes sense and is rife with potential. So far the only ones I find questionable are Tira and Talim showing up earlier because of being popular with the fanbase (and let's not kid ourselves, that is why they're in the roster).

Overall, I don't expect any sort of radical divergence (like, I dunno, Kilik dying or Sophitia not getting married) because I don't really see any point in that. The series' lore and overall setting is fine, there's really no need to do some radical divergence. Recreating the events said to have happened, dramatizing the character arcs, that's really all they need to do
 
Much of what we've seen regarding Grøh in Story Mode has so far been limited to engaging Kilik in battle once (while also taking orders from someone through his eyepatch...which is Suspicious), as well as slaughtering some Lizardmen and helping Kilik and Xianghua get into Osthreinsburg. It seems minimal for now for someone who allegedly has a large part in Story Mode, but that might be because we haven't seen much up until Inferno battle.
 
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