information of every character.

A good starting point might be to speak in dry fact at first, because if the list is intended for newbies it needs to speak in terminology that newbies would understand. An example:

Nightmare

Nightmare excels when he can create space and hesitation with his strong zoning tools (agA, 3K, 1K) in order to induce the opponent to miss so he can get his big damage off whiff punishers (33B, 3B). Nightmare must take risks in trading close range pokes and outside of his optimal tip-range, he has many moves which are punishable on block

To be successful with Nightmare, you must be able to judge range and induce whiffs from that range.

Players to watch for reference: Keev
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In the above example, I try to keep away from personal opinion on things like difficulty, etc. Execution is not everything in measuring difficulty for example. The job of something like this is to provide information for people to draw their choices from, not to imply your own point of view of the character. The fact is, characters are designed to excel at a particular play-style (unlike in some other Namco game where everyone has the same poke, induce whiff, punish, wall carry, oki mixup. There, got that out of my system lol). The job of a list like this is simply to explain what that particular play-style is.

PS: Trolling people who are genuinely trying to contribute is in poor taste. Even for me :\
 
The reasons listed for Ivy are not very accurate.
rurounikenshin said:
Have you seen the iCS?
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iCS is by no means a reason to use Ivy, because: 1. It is hard to perform and 2. It only gives you an extra 9 dmg (and no buffering).

I'd also wouldn't call her advanced because PS took a lot out to make her easier to use; which is what she has become.

Also since when does 3B have a TC?

Don't take this personally I'm just asking why you think she is advanced, why her iCS is good, etc.
 
WuHT said:
is it really that bad that people just post silly pictures instead of addressing it? I know paranormal is working hard to compiling a more detailed list.

The thing that bothers me the most is the bad spelling lol
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about the spelling, english is not my first language and it was very late at night, but i´ll try to fix it.
 
Mage said:
The reasons listed for Ivy are not very accurate.

iCS is by no means a reason to use Ivy, because: 1. It is hard to perform and 2. It only gives you an extra 9 dmg (and no buffering).

I'd also wouldn't call her advanced because PS took a lot out to make her easier to use; which is what she has become.

Also since when does 3B have a TC?

Don't take this personally I'm just asking why you think she is advanced, why her iCS is good, etc.
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She is advanced because normal CS is also a little hard to perform, she requires a rather difficult JF for whiff punishment if you want the biggest damage, she doesn´t have a regular 3B (that btw, im pretty sure it TCs), etc. I know that PS took her stances making her easier, but I believe she is still a very hard character to master.
 
Mage said:
Normal CS isn't dramatically difficult if you practice and most Ivy players don't use her 22_88B:B:B:B:B if that's what you are talking about with the whiff punisher. :)
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Yes, I am talking about that move and even if it is not that used, it should be, just because it gives max damage on whiff punishment.
 
How about this: rating the strengths of every character in a list of objectively important characteristics. Like the graphs on the character select screen, except useful. Example:

Leixia:
Damage: D
Combos: C
Range/Spacing/Zoning: C
Speed: A
Mixups: S
Okizeme/Tech Traps: C
Guard Pressure: A
Safety: S
Whiff Punishment: C
Movement: A
Block Punishment: B
Complexity: B
Execution: S
Matchups: B
Ring Out: C
Step Kill: B


Granted, half of that is probably wrong and I'm sure I've missed several important things, but you get the idea. A simpler list format without commentary would be easier to make more objective and highlight the strengths without throwing in superfluous or subjective material.
 
Wandrian said:
How about this: rating the strengths of every character in a list of objectively important characteristics. Like the graphs on the character select screen, except useful. Example:

Leixia:
Damage: D
Combos: C
Range/Spacing/Zoning: C
Speed: A
Mixups: S
Okizeme/Tech Traps: C
Guard Pressure: A
Safety: S
Whiff Punishment: C
Movement: A
Block Punishment: B
Complexity: B
Execution: S
Matchups: B
Ring Out: C
Step Kill: B


Granted, half of that is probably wrong and I'm sure I've missed several important things, but you get the idea. A simpler list format without commentary would be easier to make more objective and highlight the strengths without throwing in superfluous or subjective material.
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I'd say this is still too much information. Ratings mean the viewer has to understand what the rating system means, and as anyone can tell you, some people can think an 8/10 is crap, and others will think it is really good. This also relies on certain concepts with nebulous definitions, like "Complexity".

You need to be able to convey the essence of the character in a few simple sentences, a paragraph at most, and provide reference material, preferably, video. This is because explaining in terms and concepts that rely on familiarity and understanding does nobody any favors.

This also means the people writing this up need to be able to distill the essence of the character simply because they know the character deeply. I find the more "wordy" a simple explanation is, the more it implies a lack of knowledge being covered up by words.
 
SuckingMaw said:
I'd say this is still too much information. Ratings mean the viewer has to understand what the rating system means, and as anyone can tell you, some people can think an 8/10 is crap, and others will think it is really good. This also relies on certain concepts with nebulous definitions, like "Complexity".
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How is it too much information to list the strengths of a character in a list format? The idea with ratings would be to make something subjective a little bit closer to being objective and simpler to understand. Astaroth, for example, does a crapton of damage with a lot of attacks so clearly he should get an S or similarly very high grade on the damage rating dealie. Coming to an agreeable rating on things that aren't very clearly the best or worst out there is definitely something that is difficult to do, but if they're not the very bottom or very top in that particular aspect having a grade be just slightly off would be acceptable and still useful to someone interested in learning a characters strengths. Some of the terms could certainly be improved, but then that's what you get with *ME* making the example :/



You need to be able to convey the essence of the character in a few simple sentences, a paragraph at most, and provide reference material, preferably, video. This is because explaining in terms and concepts that rely on familiarity and understanding does nobody any favors.
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There's benefits and issues with any kind of format for this kind of thing, of course. Excellent point though, so...why not do both? "Maxi is great at constantly forcing mixups and dealing high damage, but he's vulnerable to backstep and is more difficult to use than many characters." Throw that in before a list of strengths, sounds right.


This also means the people writing this up need to be able to distill the essence of the character simply because they know the character deeply. I find the more "wordy" a simple explanation is, the more it implies a lack of knowledge being covered up by words.
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Yep.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HRD
Teletubbie CaS'
Players to watch out for: Destrofraud
Advantages: Being completely hilarious
Disadvantages: Maximilian's Raphael
 
Wandrian said:
How is it too much information to list the strengths of a character in a list format? The idea with ratings would be to make something subjective a little bit closer to being objective and simpler to understand. Astaroth, for example, does a crapton of damage with a lot of attacks so clearly he should get an S or similarly very high grade on the damage rating dealie. Coming to an agreeable rating on things that aren't very clearly the best or worst out there is definitely something that is difficult to do, but if they're not the very bottom or very top in that particular aspect having a grade be just slightly off would be acceptable and still useful to someone interested in learning a characters strengths. Some of the terms could certainly be improved, but then that's what you get with *ME* making the example :/
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The issue is having a ratings system. Ratings are symbolic measures used to represent something. Therein lies a problem because unless one person is writing all of the ratings, the ratings are then inconsistent.

Remember, this information is primarily targeted at new players and players who want to learn. Don't make them have to try and understand a ratings system, just say what you want to say. "Astaroth generally does a high amount of damage" is much better than "Astaroth has S tier damage".

People argue over the difference in B and B+ tier characters, I see no point in inviting a debate where none is needed. All we are doing is cutting fat and stating facts about a characters natural and optimal playstyle. To do that you simply need players who understand those inherent and optimal styles and can articulate it simply. It's not opinion and it isn't subjective, the characters *are* intended to be played in specific ways.
 
Ok I understand. Dont list me as someone to look for for Cervantes or Zwei. I see how it is. Gotta be like that huh. Nah im just joking but this list is good and it looks like you put a lot of work into it. GJ!
 
Personal issues with the character need to be left out. Such as:

Maxi:
-Style: Stance mixups.
-Difficult: medium-advanced
-Why use: use If you started as a button masher, like stylish characters, like Bruce Lee and like having multiple stances with different uses.
-Pros: He is the noob-killer by excelence, his hair, great punishment, good use of BEs, good stance 50/50s and as always, great damage.
-Cons: You can only achieve the fury kicks during one stance so you have to loop into BL if you want those 50/50s, if your opponent knows all of his stances and what links into them you will have a hard time, requires good execution if you want best damage on whiff punishment and his hair.
-Players you should be looking out for: IRM, iadorebunnies, oosaka, HRD, Marginal and Saitou (i dont know if he is still active)


references to "noobs" and such are not something you should see in a list like that. We have new members that will see this and get the wrong idea about not only the CHARACTERS but the PLAYERS you listed as still playing said characters. Keep personal issues and opinions out.
 
I also think that rankings are different depending of the person who does them.

Here is my personal list about each character based on my list in TZ, feel free to pick all the information you want.
As I did on TZ i'm going to avoid complex terminology.


Struggling with the choice of your character?
You dont have any idea how you should play your already picked mains?
Look no further, take a look at this thread to see at very basic level how each character fights.
This thread is an overview to help newcomers, if you know the basics of your characters or you have exhausted the knowledge of this thread, look in character strategies in the forum.

Alpha Patroklos
-Style: Rushdown, punishment.
-Suited for: Offense and defense.
-Difficult: L. Lawliet (Extremely advanced)
-Why use: Character limited by the one who uses him, lots of options ond the offense and defense.
-Pros: Very fast character, great CH starters, great normal hit starters, great mobility, he doesn't need meter to do serious damage, very good grabs, very good ring out game.
-Cons: His exeqution barrier is very high, his guard break is below average, requires a very good read of your opponent because he isn't very safe, his tracking game could be better... but all this weaknesses can be fixed if you know how to use him.


Aeon
-Style: Whiff punishment, guard burst.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: Very easy to pick up, you wanna use the son of Kratos and (SCIV) Lizardman.
-Pros: Monster of ring out game, good guard burst, great tracking game, good tracking game, good Ch attacks.
-Cons: Aeon is slow as hell, if the opponent stays out of his throw range, he struggles a lot, also he struggles against heavy pressure.

Algol
-Style: Punishment and range (He excels in many areas) .
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Beginner-medium.
-Why use: Dodot guy 40 years older.
-Pros: He is the type of character that has every aspect of the game good, he excels at damage and punishment but he can also be played more gressively and he is safe to.
-Cons: If you can react to some of his lows he will have to rely on throws or to a more defensive playstyle.

Astaroth
-Style: Throws and spacing.
-Suited for: Defense.
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: Giant zombie with an axe.
-Pros: Great damage, best throws in the game, amazing range, extremely good wall and ring out game.
-Cons: Slow (very slow), crappy mixups and punishment, he struggles against heavy pressure and tech crouching attacks.

Cervantes
-Style: Well rounded.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Advanced.
-Why use: You miss the Soul Edge days where he was a badass pirate who teleport.
-Pros: Extremely high damage, great whiff punishment, damn starting to speak about him i can speak of all the things and I think I'm not mistaken if I say that he has everything very high.
-Cons: Situational movelis, his guard burst could be better, his mixups could be a bit better too, his movement is below average.

Dampierre
-Style: Confusion, tricks, magnificent from Le Bello!.
-Suited for: Confuse himself and the opponent (balanced)
-Difficult: Medium-High.
-Why use: Why not?.
-Pros: Style points, wtf moments, his taunt (his top move), never stop doing the taunt for increase the anger in your opponent, use it even when you lose to make your opponent commit mistakes.
-Cons: You cant control many of his actions but the opponent can't control his reactions!

Ezio Auditore
-Style: CH fisher.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult:Beginner.
-Why use: Is a guest charater, have that in mind.
-Pros: Good counter hits at close range, great movement to deal damage in certain situations.
-Cons: Crappy lows, poor okizeme, a defensive strategy can hurt him because his lack of good lows and throws.

Hilde
-Style: Control the range, whiff punishment.
-Suited for: Defense.
-Difficult: Medium-Advanced.
-Why use: For our homeland!!!! (CE).
-Pros: Great range where she can punish whiffed attacks with powerful combos.
-Cons: She needs time to chose what type of attack to charge, weak to throws, crappy okizeme and mixups.

Ivy
-Style: Long range poking, spacing.
-Suited for: Defense.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use: She is a ballon monster, be careful with that, you like sado.
-Pros: Good pokes at all ranges she can control the fight with her attacks, she has good zoning abilities, amazing throws.
-Cons: Relatively weak to tech crouch, weak to whiff punishment at long range, below average mixups.

Leixia
-Style: Rushdown.
-Suited for: Offense.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use: Non-stop-fast pressure is her second name.
-Pros: Lots of tricks, fakes and low-mid mixups up-close to continue her offense.
-Cons: She needs to be close to her opponent, she doesn't do much damage and her throws are below average.

Maxi
-Style: Stance mixups.
-Suited for: Offense-balanced.
-Difficult: Medium-advanced.
-Why use: The Bruce Lee of this game, mashing things is funny at low level play.
-Pros: Lots of options, transitions and stuff to keep the opponent guessing what's comming next.
-Cons: Knowing the transitions can hurt him a bit, a keep out strategy gives him troubles.

Mitsurugi
-Style: Mixups, pokes .
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: Everybody uses him, scrubs love to CAS one and put him a 120 and kittien's voice.
-Pros: Mixuprugi, great character for beginners, good okizeme, good pokes on offense and defense, good tracking, good guard burst.
-Cons: Very unsafe and simply to use with below average options and very straight forward so a good read will make him switch to a more defensive style.

Natsu
-Style: Rushdown-Mixups.
-Suited for: Offense.
-Difficult: Beginner-Medium.
-Why use: Very fast character with lots of options locking down her opponents and solid mixups.
-Pros: She has many options attacking and many fast attacks in defense to stop pressure, she can even control the pace of the match through movement.
-Cons: A careful strategy against can hurt her, if your opponent reads her patterns of attacks can interrupt her, learn to block her bombs will stop her most damaging mixups.

Nightmare
-Style: Spacing, whiff punishment, guard burst.
-Suited for: Defense.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use: Brute force in every attack, UAAHHH!.
-Pros: Great spacing abilities, great damage from many of his moves, great movement, good wall game.
-Cons: Slow as hell, crappy (I mean crappy) mixups, needs a good CH to take off the pressure, very unsafe.

Patroklos
-Style: Pokes.
-Suited for: Balanced .
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: Well rounded character and very straght forward.
-Pros: He has good whiff punishers, solid mixups, good throws, even good frametraps, he can fit many playstyles.
-Cons: He doesn't excel in many areas, crappy range in certain attacks, crappy grab range.

Pyrrha
-Style: Punishment, pokes.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: KYAAAA!!! I'm sorry! (Troll).
-Pros: Very good punishment game, solid pokes to keep her offense going and counter attack opponents attempts.
-Cons: Short range, her ring out game could be better, her lows and throws are average.

Pyrrha Omega
-Style: Punishment, guard burst.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use: Pyrrha with red eyes and more crazy, cool shouts.
-Pros: Very good punishers and pokes to keep offense while doing serious damage to the guard gauge.
-Cons: Her lows and throws could be better so she struggles against defensive styles.

Raphael
-Style: Spacing-Ch fisher.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use:
-Pros: Lots of evasive options are very good, he has very good range, better guard burst than you may think, avobe average speed and movement .
-Cons: His tracking is crap, knowing the transitions to his stances can stop many of his options.

Siegfried
-Style: Spacing, stance-mixups.
-Suited for: Balanced-defense.
-Difficult: Medium.
-Why use: Cool character and voice actor.
-Pros: He has tools to keep out his opponents and don't let them enter in clse range, very good pokes at mid range, very powerful (but situational) mixups.
-Cons: He struggles at close range, he doesn't have good punishers, very slow character.

Tira
-Style: Poking, spacing (Jolly), guard burst, pokes (gloomy)
-Suited for: Defense (jolly), offense (gloomy).
-Difficult: Medium-high.
-Why use: She is the girl of "why they nerf it? she is bottom tier now" and then wins the EVO (zas).
-Pros: Options in many ranges, situational moves, she can confuse the opponent with her changes.
-Cons: Below average punishment (in both states) she needs a break or meter to enter in gloomy, she has weaknesses in Jolly so a heavy pressure while on Jolly is an effective strategy.

Viola
-Style: Mixups.
-Suited for: Offense.
-Difficult: Advanced.
-Why use: Lots of options at clse range, fun character to play.
-Pros: Very powerfull with meter, very solid good attacks, orb position can confuse your opponent.
-Cons: Linearity outside close range, lack of punishment outside close range, a keep out game can hurt her, needs to set the orb to be a real menace.

Voldo
-Style: Back turned mixups, control the mid range.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Medium-high.
-Why use: Mantis crawl, wtf whiffed moments anger opponent moments.
-Pros: Amazing control of the mid range with his evasive abilities, very good mixups and throws at close range.
-Cons: His evasive abilities are less efective against mid attacks, his back turned his very unsafe, his okizeme is bad if he isn't back turned.

Xiba
-Style: Mixups, guard burst, controlling space.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Beginner.
-Why use: Son Goku's bad copy, he his hungry, he is retarded.
-Pros: He can change the timing of his attacks in the middle range, where he shines, he can confuse the opponent with this timing variations while employing mixups and doing damage to the guard burst, he can also control the range effectively.
-Cons: Crappy punishment so at close range he struggles, if you read Xiba's lows you can punish him with lots of damage.

Yoshimitsu
-Style: Mixups-ch fisher.
-Suited for: Offense.
-Difficult: Advanced.
-Why use: Second best character to troll.
-Pros: Amazing mixups, amazing okizeme, great counter hit attacks, useful unblockables, good wall game.
-Cons: Very unsafe, his range could be better, his guard burst is below average.

Z.W.E.I.
-Style: E.I.N. summum, spacing.
-Suited for: Balanced.
-Difficult: Advanced.
-Why use: Use him if you like to have a good read on your opponent to apply offense.
-Pros: Great guard burst, good spacing abilities, he can change the timing of certain attacks to lock the opponent.
-Cons: His punishment options are bad and he is slow so he struggles shacking off the pressure, he needs space to start offense.
 
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