rurounikenshin
[10] Knight
I tried to put the most notable players I have seen, but sadly I have never seen Hayate play and I didn´t know about him until I checked the ZWEI forums like 3 days ago.
information of every character.
- Thread starter rurounikenshin
- Start date
I tried to put the most notable players I have seen, but sadly I have never seen Hayate play and I didn´t know about him until I checked the ZWEI forums like 3 days ago.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
I disagree that Siegfried is medium-advanced. Is it because his frames are bad? IDK I find his long range and easy execution make him pretty damn easy. His move list isn't long either. Believe it or not he's actually a good beginner character.
I find NM slightly harder to tell you the truth, but even he's still easy as hell.
I find NM slightly harder to tell you the truth, but even he's still easy as hell.
WuHT
Premium Moderator
I don't mean to rag on tekken, but arn't the differences in character approaches in SC5 way more pronounced than Tekken ?
Secondly, i'm totally fine with a 1) aimed-at-beginners approach as well as a 2) semi-casual-looking-to-improve based vernacular.
Looking at the purpose of this assignment, I feel my submission was way too wordy.
Secondly, i'm totally fine with a 1) aimed-at-beginners approach as well as a 2) semi-casual-looking-to-improve based vernacular.
Looking at the purpose of this assignment, I feel my submission was way too wordy.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
As long as people insist on using terms that help nobody, like "Complexity" and "Difficulty" then people will argue about it. There simply isn't enough expertise going around to here at the moment to write these concise snippets.
Forget all the baggage, and explain what the character does well, how to do it, what they character has trouble with, and why, in a short paragraph or two.
Don't use "lists" or "rating systems" or any of that BS.
If you can't do that, you do not have the mastery or understanding of the character to provide the information, and should probably stop disseminating incomplete understandings as information.
Forget all the baggage, and explain what the character does well, how to do it, what they character has trouble with, and why, in a short paragraph or two.
Don't use "lists" or "rating systems" or any of that BS.
If you can't do that, you do not have the mastery or understanding of the character to provide the information, and should probably stop disseminating incomplete understandings as information.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
Siegfried is an excellent scrub-killer yes.
At high level play he is much harder to win with, hence why it was probably listed as medium/advanced, you have to make a lot of good reads to win with him.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
So he's hard because he's low tier? Is that it?
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
-.-
You guys are both missing the point arguing over something pointless and stupid.
You guys are both missing the point arguing over something pointless and stupid.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
Lolz pretty much.
Syn_SC
[10] Knight
I think Idle meant something along the lines of this:
Siegfried
Strengths: Excellent keepout tools in ag:A, 3B, 22ka:2A and to a lesser extent B6 and 2A. Good range on throws, coupled with a strong frontstep make it easy to push for a throw/mid mixup at much longer ranges than a lot of characters. Can pressure well through guard crush. Can use a mid/low 50/50at around halfscreen range in clutch situations.
Weaknesses: Safety is an issue with Siegfried but a lot of his more unsafe moves can be made safe through range against much of the cast eg 66B. His own block punishment is also lacking in damage without meter, though his staple punishers have notably good range. He also lacks a generic 2A which means he has no low risk panic button.
Best matchups: Characters who lose to him outright at mid-long range and need to get in against him, preferably weak/low ranged punishers and if possible a XE that doesn't have enough invincibility to beat 3(B) on block. eg. ZWEI.
Worst matchups: Anyone who beats him at mid range and close range, with strong block punishment. eg. Omega because DNS B at mid range is effectively a safe 80 dmg poke that blpws him up and she is one of the best block punishers in the game, even at mid range.
This was just off the top of my head and I missed a lot but this is I feel a reasonable example.
Siegfried
Strengths: Excellent keepout tools in ag:A, 3B, 22ka:2A and to a lesser extent B6 and 2A. Good range on throws, coupled with a strong frontstep make it easy to push for a throw/mid mixup at much longer ranges than a lot of characters. Can pressure well through guard crush. Can use a mid/low 50/50at around halfscreen range in clutch situations.
Weaknesses: Safety is an issue with Siegfried but a lot of his more unsafe moves can be made safe through range against much of the cast eg 66B. His own block punishment is also lacking in damage without meter, though his staple punishers have notably good range. He also lacks a generic 2A which means he has no low risk panic button.
Best matchups: Characters who lose to him outright at mid-long range and need to get in against him, preferably weak/low ranged punishers and if possible a XE that doesn't have enough invincibility to beat 3(B) on block. eg. ZWEI.
Worst matchups: Anyone who beats him at mid range and close range, with strong block punishment. eg. Omega because DNS B at mid range is effectively a safe 80 dmg poke that blpws him up and she is one of the best block punishers in the game, even at mid range.
This was just off the top of my head and I missed a lot but this is I feel a reasonable example.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
I believe that is an excellent example Syn.
Syn_SC
[10] Knight
Forgot to mention:
Frontstep is good but his side and backstep are terrible, which is why DNS B is so effective, he basically has to block it at mid range and when he does he gets no punish.
Frontstep is good but his side and backstep are terrible, which is why DNS B is so effective, he basically has to block it at mid range and when he does he gets no punish.
optymuss
[12] Conqueror
Is it okay to use lists (like bullet points) to make it easier to read and to not overwhelm people with a giant body of text?
Or when listing strengths and weaknesses can you make 2 seperate body paragraphs?
Or does it depend on how in depth you go?
Or when listing strengths and weaknesses can you make 2 seperate body paragraphs?
Or does it depend on how in depth you go?
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
I'd say it's more a formatting issue. It's also relevant to how the reader perceives information. A list causes a user to scan passively, while a few short paragraphs requires at least a minute investment of their attention.
rurounikenshin
[10] Knight
So should I just take the ´´difficult´´ part out of the list?
Wandrian
I don't know.
Synnikins hit the nail on the head, I think. Just include how Alpha Patroklos requires superb execution or how Nightmare needs to take greater risks to do much damage and the like and I think we're good. A little humor would probably be uncalled for though, as again if it's something to inform new players and those of us that don't fully understand characters yet it can be distracting or even misinforming by not getting the joke. Especially the ones that could come across as scrub logic, like saying you need to be a robot to play Alpha Patroklos ;)
OmegaXCN
[10] Knight
You kinda do need to be a robot to play Alpha Pat.
Signia
[13] Hero
Ok so much is wrong in all your posts so I'm gonna correct it.
Alpha Patroklos:
Heavy emphasis on execution for huge damage.
Mid-low/throw mixups and punishment. Short-medium range. Weak step tracking.
Aeon:
Controls mid-range movement and positioning so he can stop movement in order to run mid/throw mixups, or avoid getting hit and set up favorable stage positioning for ringouts and wall combos.
Whiff punishment, space controlling, CH fishing, ringout/reverse ringout. Medium-long range. Strong step tracking.
Algol:
Has 2D fighter mechanics, like slow projectiles, reversal DPs, jump-ins, and directional charge. Well-rounded.
Spacing, rushdown, whiff punishment. Medium-long range. Weak step tracking.
Astaroth:
The game's main grappler character. Controls mid-range movement and positioning so he can stop movement in order to run mid/throw mixups, avoid getting hit and set up favorable stage positioning for ringouts and wall combos, or simply pile on guard damage. Slowest character up-close.
Mid/throw mixups, space control, ringout. Long range. Strong step tracking.
Cervantes:
A character that spaces unsafe moves at tip range to make them safer and uses that spacing to provoke whiffs or unsafe options from the opponent.
Whiff punishment, block punishment. Medium-long range. Strong step tracking.
Dampierre:
Has random number generator mechanics, with moves randomly transitioning into weak mixup stances, but is capable of high damage if he can do his combos without unluckily transitioning.
Mid/low mixups and random stance transitions into mixups. Short range. Weak tracking.
Ezio Auditore:
Well-rounded character with a fast, but unsafe projectile and uses CH confirms for his damage.
Decent Mid/low mixup, space control, CH fishing, and oki. Short-mid range except for the crossbow. Strong tracking.
Hilde:
Button charge character with three levels of charge, building over a few seconds, with the middle timing giving the best moves. She has a powerful combination of fast movement, strong whiff punishment, and movement control which is all enhanced by proper planning of charge timings. At the same time, she can handle herself up close with her speed.
Whiff punishment, space control, reverse ringout. Mid-long range. Medium tracking.
Ivy:
Uses safe, evasive moves and strong CH damage to dominate the close-mid range, while having tools to control range.
Evasion, CH fishing, space control. Mid-long range. Medium tracking.
Leixia:
Uses speed, evasion, and complete close range movement control to keep opponents guessing on when to attack, while having lows to break turtles.
Evasion, string mixups, rushdown. Short-mid range. Strong tracking.
Maxi:
A well-rounded character that has the option of running mixup stances after many moves or cancelling them to provoke responses or punish passivity. His complex system of six stances that transition into each other in various ways give him many options but one must be open-minded about adapting or have the many weaknesses of his stances exploited.
Stance/string mixups. Medium range. Medium tracking.
Mitsurugi:
Can keep opponents out with high-pushback pokes while being able to rushdown with speed, short recovery, and risky but powerful mixups. Also has safe evasive moves and decent guard damage.
Mid/low mixups, space control, evasion, ringout. Medium tracking.
Natsu:
Speedy character that can still hang at range. Has powerful evades and counter hits, and can punish things no other character can with her speed. Her stance also gives her a variety of mixup options.
Evasion, punishment, rushdown. Short-medium range. Medium tracking.
Nightmare:
Despite having slow attacks, can rushdown once he lands a hit with an advancing stance and long range grabs. Uses space control to limit options and control positioning for his variety of ringout options and wall combos. His fast movement and long range whiff punishment makes a deadly combination.
Whiff punishment, space control, rushdown, ringouts. Long range. Strong tracking.
Patroklos:
Uses speed and good mids, lows and throws to dominate close range while a having a single powerful tool that gets him by in the long range game.
Block/whiff punishment, rushdown, ringouts. Weak tracking.
Pyrrha:
Uses punishment, safety, and strong movement to limit the opponent's offensive options, while using speed and safe tracking to limit their defensive options.
Block/whiff punishment. Short-medium range. Strong tracking.
Pyrrha Omega:
Like Pyrrha, but with stronger whiff punishes and guard burst capabilities and weaker up-close game and worse safety.
Block/whiff punishment, Guard damage. Medium range. Strong tracking.
Raphael:
Uses ranged, high speed pokes at the cost of damage and tracking to control forward and backward movement. Uses CH confirms and evasion for his damage. Movement is also notable.
Evasion and CH fishing. Long range. WEAK tracking.
Siegfried:
Uses space control to limit options and control positioning for his variety of ringout options, while having the option to use stances for high risk, high reward mixups.
Spacing and risky stance mixups, ringouts. Long range. Strong tracking.
Tira:
Has two mood stances that greatly vary her strength. She begins in Jolly and does moves that have a random chance to transition to Gloomy, where she is a force to be reckoned with.
All around weak in Jolly, all around strong in Gloomy. Medium range. Strong tracking.
Viola:
Uses safe and powerful mixups into mixups by use of her delayed orb attack in conjunction with her normal attacks. Starts with holding her magic orb, where she does low damage but has ok range, but when the orb is set into the field she loses range but gains huge damage potential and control with her various orb callbacks.
Delayed projectile mixups, ringouts. Short range except for projectiles. Weak tracking.
Voldo:
Uses stances to run mixups that vary mid/low/throw and sidestep/crouch/mid GI at the same time, so to counter his evades, one has to do more than just bait them. This gives him the ability to rushdown.
Stance mixups, rushdown. Medium range. Weak tracking.
Xiba:
Uses powerful CH confirms to do big damage. Has a variety of strings that can be delayed or safely stopped early, and can use opponent hesitation to land CHs. He also has a variety of lows to be used if the opponent hesitates too long.
String mixups, mid/low mixups, and CH fishing. Medium range. Medium-strong tracking.
Yoshimitsu:
The rushdown character. Uses speed and powerful CHs to dominate close range, and has a variety stances that can run weak mixups. Uses close range domination to encourage the opponent to back away into worse positioning, where they're vulnerable to step-catching moves that ring out a long distance.
Rushdown, ringout, mid/low mixups. Short-medium range except for teleport stance. Medium tracking.
Z.W.E.I.
Uses a wolf spirit to attack after him at varied timings, which allows for tight strings or unblockable setups while piling on guard damage.
Delayed projectile pressure and guard pressure. Medium range. Weak tracking.
So, those are the character profiles. That's what they all do. There's only one "long range" and one "short range" because ranges are pretty homogenized. There really isn't that big of a difference between Xiba's and Natsu's range, for example. Tracking ability is based on whether they have a safe ranged tracking mid (strong) or a ranged safe tracking high (medium). The rest are weak unless they have some unique circumstances (Raph has 66A but the rest of his tracking sucks and Yoshi has no safe ranged tracking high and no mid-ranged safe tracking mid, but he has 3K as a tracking mid and iFC3K as a tracking ranged low as well as 90 damage 66A BE).
Alpha Patroklos:
Heavy emphasis on execution for huge damage.
Mid-low/throw mixups and punishment. Short-medium range. Weak step tracking.
Aeon:
Controls mid-range movement and positioning so he can stop movement in order to run mid/throw mixups, or avoid getting hit and set up favorable stage positioning for ringouts and wall combos.
Whiff punishment, space controlling, CH fishing, ringout/reverse ringout. Medium-long range. Strong step tracking.
Algol:
Has 2D fighter mechanics, like slow projectiles, reversal DPs, jump-ins, and directional charge. Well-rounded.
Spacing, rushdown, whiff punishment. Medium-long range. Weak step tracking.
Astaroth:
The game's main grappler character. Controls mid-range movement and positioning so he can stop movement in order to run mid/throw mixups, avoid getting hit and set up favorable stage positioning for ringouts and wall combos, or simply pile on guard damage. Slowest character up-close.
Mid/throw mixups, space control, ringout. Long range. Strong step tracking.
Cervantes:
A character that spaces unsafe moves at tip range to make them safer and uses that spacing to provoke whiffs or unsafe options from the opponent.
Whiff punishment, block punishment. Medium-long range. Strong step tracking.
Dampierre:
Has random number generator mechanics, with moves randomly transitioning into weak mixup stances, but is capable of high damage if he can do his combos without unluckily transitioning.
Mid/low mixups and random stance transitions into mixups. Short range. Weak tracking.
Ezio Auditore:
Well-rounded character with a fast, but unsafe projectile and uses CH confirms for his damage.
Decent Mid/low mixup, space control, CH fishing, and oki. Short-mid range except for the crossbow. Strong tracking.
Hilde:
Button charge character with three levels of charge, building over a few seconds, with the middle timing giving the best moves. She has a powerful combination of fast movement, strong whiff punishment, and movement control which is all enhanced by proper planning of charge timings. At the same time, she can handle herself up close with her speed.
Whiff punishment, space control, reverse ringout. Mid-long range. Medium tracking.
Ivy:
Uses safe, evasive moves and strong CH damage to dominate the close-mid range, while having tools to control range.
Evasion, CH fishing, space control. Mid-long range. Medium tracking.
Leixia:
Uses speed, evasion, and complete close range movement control to keep opponents guessing on when to attack, while having lows to break turtles.
Evasion, string mixups, rushdown. Short-mid range. Strong tracking.
Maxi:
A well-rounded character that has the option of running mixup stances after many moves or cancelling them to provoke responses or punish passivity. His complex system of six stances that transition into each other in various ways give him many options but one must be open-minded about adapting or have the many weaknesses of his stances exploited.
Stance/string mixups. Medium range. Medium tracking.
Mitsurugi:
Can keep opponents out with high-pushback pokes while being able to rushdown with speed, short recovery, and risky but powerful mixups. Also has safe evasive moves and decent guard damage.
Mid/low mixups, space control, evasion, ringout. Medium tracking.
Natsu:
Speedy character that can still hang at range. Has powerful evades and counter hits, and can punish things no other character can with her speed. Her stance also gives her a variety of mixup options.
Evasion, punishment, rushdown. Short-medium range. Medium tracking.
Nightmare:
Despite having slow attacks, can rushdown once he lands a hit with an advancing stance and long range grabs. Uses space control to limit options and control positioning for his variety of ringout options and wall combos. His fast movement and long range whiff punishment makes a deadly combination.
Whiff punishment, space control, rushdown, ringouts. Long range. Strong tracking.
Patroklos:
Uses speed and good mids, lows and throws to dominate close range while a having a single powerful tool that gets him by in the long range game.
Block/whiff punishment, rushdown, ringouts. Weak tracking.
Pyrrha:
Uses punishment, safety, and strong movement to limit the opponent's offensive options, while using speed and safe tracking to limit their defensive options.
Block/whiff punishment. Short-medium range. Strong tracking.
Pyrrha Omega:
Like Pyrrha, but with stronger whiff punishes and guard burst capabilities and weaker up-close game and worse safety.
Block/whiff punishment, Guard damage. Medium range. Strong tracking.
Raphael:
Uses ranged, high speed pokes at the cost of damage and tracking to control forward and backward movement. Uses CH confirms and evasion for his damage. Movement is also notable.
Evasion and CH fishing. Long range. WEAK tracking.
Siegfried:
Uses space control to limit options and control positioning for his variety of ringout options, while having the option to use stances for high risk, high reward mixups.
Spacing and risky stance mixups, ringouts. Long range. Strong tracking.
Tira:
Has two mood stances that greatly vary her strength. She begins in Jolly and does moves that have a random chance to transition to Gloomy, where she is a force to be reckoned with.
All around weak in Jolly, all around strong in Gloomy. Medium range. Strong tracking.
Viola:
Uses safe and powerful mixups into mixups by use of her delayed orb attack in conjunction with her normal attacks. Starts with holding her magic orb, where she does low damage but has ok range, but when the orb is set into the field she loses range but gains huge damage potential and control with her various orb callbacks.
Delayed projectile mixups, ringouts. Short range except for projectiles. Weak tracking.
Voldo:
Uses stances to run mixups that vary mid/low/throw and sidestep/crouch/mid GI at the same time, so to counter his evades, one has to do more than just bait them. This gives him the ability to rushdown.
Stance mixups, rushdown. Medium range. Weak tracking.
Xiba:
Uses powerful CH confirms to do big damage. Has a variety of strings that can be delayed or safely stopped early, and can use opponent hesitation to land CHs. He also has a variety of lows to be used if the opponent hesitates too long.
String mixups, mid/low mixups, and CH fishing. Medium range. Medium-strong tracking.
Yoshimitsu:
The rushdown character. Uses speed and powerful CHs to dominate close range, and has a variety stances that can run weak mixups. Uses close range domination to encourage the opponent to back away into worse positioning, where they're vulnerable to step-catching moves that ring out a long distance.
Rushdown, ringout, mid/low mixups. Short-medium range except for teleport stance. Medium tracking.
Z.W.E.I.
Uses a wolf spirit to attack after him at varied timings, which allows for tight strings or unblockable setups while piling on guard damage.
Delayed projectile pressure and guard pressure. Medium range. Weak tracking.
So, those are the character profiles. That's what they all do. There's only one "long range" and one "short range" because ranges are pretty homogenized. There really isn't that big of a difference between Xiba's and Natsu's range, for example. Tracking ability is based on whether they have a safe ranged tracking mid (strong) or a ranged safe tracking high (medium). The rest are weak unless they have some unique circumstances (Raph has 66A but the rest of his tracking sucks and Yoshi has no safe ranged tracking high and no mid-ranged safe tracking mid, but he has 3K as a tracking mid and iFC3K as a tracking ranged low as well as 90 damage 66A BE).
Ring
Lay still now
I'm not sure if Ivy deserves a "strong tracking" ablility since she doesn't have any safe ranged tracking mids (unless you take into account "safe at distance" in some MUs). On the other hand, she has plenty of safe tracking high moves.
MKHSpartan
[12] Conqueror
Wait Siegfried has strong tracking? I thought he had this thing called "Whiffing".
Mage
I'll make you submit!
I can only think of 3[A], and perhaps 44A/44A6.