Matchup Discussion: Leixia VS. Astaroth

Azazel

[12] Conqueror
I am NOT! a Lexia player but my gf is, and she hates Asta cause she can't get near him, so...whats recommended for Lexia against this giant dude?
 

brucege

[14] Master
My experiences are that the good Astys will actually close in the gap for his formidable throw game since he doesn't have nearly as many options as other long ranged jerks like Sig and NM. For less experienced Astys, just watch out for his 22A. Step and block a few times, and you'll be in 6KK range in no time. You also usually have enough time for charge in for a 66B if he whiffs. If 3[A]A/3[A]B are giving you trouble go into training and condition yourself to jump the second A in the former and step the B follow up in the latter. Follow up with more 6KK.
 

Azazel

[12] Conqueror
Pretty good! tnx. And how bout using 2A on close range to interrupt his grabs and 6K? since is a forced TC should work, right?
 

brucege

[14] Master
I'm not sure...I'll have to do some testing. I believe he can grab you out of both, but as far as I know, both moves are relatively fast, and Astaroth doesn't have anything that can punish Leixia, so I usually just go for the 6KK + WS mixup.
 

TiZ

[11] Champion
He actually has this jumping knee attack that is a pretty decent punisher.

As for his throw game... if you're on the ground, break A. If you're on your feet, break B. I think those are the two important ones to remember.
 

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
He has poor punishment, but he does have a powerful grab/mid mixup that he can use at a heavy frame advantage. If you're staying in FC all the time after blocked 6KKs, you're going to take BB6 all day and then another mixup. I wouldn't throw it out on his guard anymore than anyone else.

Hell, 6KK is -16 and his crouch throws are i13, he might get a free attempt on you. Lemme check.

EDIT:He does. He can also force his regular 50-50 on you in that situation.


As for his throw game... if you're on the ground, break A. If you're on your feet, break B. I think those are the two important ones to remember.
He can do the ground grab with either button and both have the same result. As for his command grabs, remember he can ring you out behind him with 63214A+G BE, and in front of him with 63214B+G. He can also wallsplat with B+G. Both crouch grabs can also ring out, and 2A+G can wallsplat. So his throw game is very versatile. And I wouldn't break B all day standing anyways; if the Asta realizes it, that's a free 80 damage (with meter) every time. You should really be trying to read him.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Someone mentioned this before in another thread, but 1B+K will escape the throw mixup after blocked bullrush and evades the 2nd one if he does the BE version.

EDIT: Actually, after some testing, I found that 1B+K beats a TON of his options even on hit sometimes.
If you get hit by bullrush(non CH) for example 1B+K will beat:
- ANY throw including CE, 4A, 3A+B, 6K(knee), another bullrush, crouch throws, and 4B(headbutt)

I wouldn't abuse this, because he can still hit you if he delays his next attack or baits it and whiff punishes. He can also use 44A if he thinks it's coming. But if used sparingly it will definitely make him limit his options and cuts down on the guessing on Leixia's end.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
Yeah I agree w ZeroEffect about 1B+K, it is really useful here to frustrate Astaroth and build up the chip damage.

In general, remember to crouch lots to escape his command throw mixups, cos both A and B do so much damage. Amke sure yo punish with WR B (or CE) every time. Spamming him is good too, because his fast moves are relatively low-damage. Leixia has all the tools to hit Asta 90% of the time, but he only needs to hit you once to do serious damage, so always be mindful of the RO grabs, B grab and 6B anywhere near a wall, and 44A.

I'm not sure about this match-up atm, need more experience. Seems maybe 5-5.
 

EmptySky00

[09] Warrior
Just went up against some autistic 3 year old who insists on making retardedly perverse custom chars and thinking they're funny. I was beating the snot out of him, then he wins a round that I should have won with his god forsaken CE and it went downhill from there. HOW. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU. DEAL. WITH. CE?
Looking at the new patched version, it seems like an undodgable halflife-begone. You can't B+K under it anymore, it comes out faster, you can't break the grab, it does more damage now, and it combos for over 110 damage iirc. Seriously considering quitting this game because of this character. I don't care I'm in overreaction mode. Losing to one of those tools is disgustingly demoralizing.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Just went up against some autistic 3 year old who insists on making retardedly perverse custom chars and thinking they're funny. I was beating the snot out of him, then he wins a round that I should have won with his god forsaken CE and it went downhill from there. HOW. THE. FUCK. DO. YOU. DEAL. WITH. CE?
Looking at the new patched version, it seems like an undodgable halflife-begone. You can't B+K under it anymore, it comes out faster, you can't break the grab, it does more damage now, and it combos for over 110 damage iirc. Seriously considering quitting this game because of this character. I don't care I'm in overreaction mode. Losing to one of those tools is disgustingly demoralizing.
Well... thems the breaks with having CE Throws in the game... (Lol, namco what were you thinking?) They either suck completely (fast TC like B+K always beats it) or they are completely imbalanced.

The sad reality is you CAN'T escape it at all if you're in range when it starts. By the time the screen freezes, if you are not in crouch, or in the air, you are getting grabbed for tons of damage. So the only way around it is pay attention to his meter. If he has at least 1 bar try to stay outside his range and attack with TJ or TC attacks as best you can... it's easier said than done of course, but not much else can be done unfortunately.
 

EmptySky00

[09] Warrior
Well doesn't a move that has absolutely no escape, no way to get around it aside from playing keepaway, is unblockable, fast enough so that it's borderline impossible to react to, beats out attacks, and combos for half life fall into the realm of "unbalanced as fuck and why would they do this"?

And they nerf Leixia but buff this faggot and Algol? More strongly considering dropping this game until they release another effing patch.

The only downside is that the combo costs 150 meter. I know another character that once had a 150 meter combo that did 113. What was her name? Unimportant. But now it does 70!(I know if you make them miss and land it you don't get scaled as hard but still) And it didn't get started with an inescapable grab move <_< Then they go and make this unduckable but make 44A duckable on block. Riiight.

Sorry for complaining about the patch when it's old news, but my disgust has been violently renewed. This is the last time I'll complain.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
First off... Leixia's 44{A} should've been duckable from the start. Even pre-patch, Leixia herself could duck the 2nd hit. Now they just made it the same across the board. (It was duckable in SC4 as well.)

Second, Having CE throws in the game is a problem for the exact reasons you mentioned. Before the patch, his CE was useless on Leixia outside of a GI or a great read. Now it's pretty much free if Asta's blocks something up close. You are absolutely right in your arguments. Problem is, there's no real way to balance this kind of move.

What they should've done, was make Asta's (and Ivy's) CE's both Attack Throws. (ie: Omega Pyrrha CE). That way they could be blocked and baited like everyone else, but still give the reward for Asta if he lands it. But I digress...

Don't know enough about Algol to know what they buffed on him. (I personally think that character is a dumb concept)
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
I think the main problem with Ivy's and Asta's CE is that they made them faster by a lot. Each time you're at closerange against those two (which should actually be your main goal with Leixia) you have to guess if they have enough meter. Random evades or TC moves at that range will only result in a lot of counterhits against you.
Really dump concept of you ask me.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
Yeah they are crazy strong now with all the buffs. And I don't agree about 44[A], it was duckable in SCIV because it was just 44AA input, a much faster attack, and positive on block. Now it's incredibly slow, so only useful for punishing predictable highs. It's minus on block now so why should it also be duckable?

Whoa Kalas has Z.W.E.I. in his sig - you playing the man and his dog now?
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
I don't agree about 44[A], it was duckable in SCIV because it was just 44AA input, a much faster attack, and positive on block. Now it's incredibly slow, so only useful for punishing predictable highs. It's minus on block now so why should it also be duckable?
44{A} does do a lot of gauge damage on both hits (breaks in 8 I think), and most people don't want to chance interrupting it once it starts due to the high damage that follows on hit. So having it jail is kinda iffy, imo.

But even with that aside, I believe they intended for it to be duckable since, as I said, Leixia could already duck the 2nd hit pre-patch. (Maybe other small characters could too, i forget). Now they just made it universal.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
As far as Astaroth goes, though. I agree with you that she has the tools to handle him on paper. But I think though it's all about the damage in this matchup. (In every matchup really with Lexy's low damage output) Lex has to guess right twice as many times as Astaroth to take a round. Not to mention Astaroth basically gets a free game off any Guard Crush whereas Leixia needs the corner/ring edge to do the same.

If his Guard burst ability were trash i'd say it's possibly 6/4 Lex. Right now, though 5/5 sounds about right. It's definitely in Asta's favor on a walled stage though.
 

Reptile

Soul Calibur V
From facing a skilled Astaroth player quite a few times in this matchup I hate to say that's it's hard for Leixia against him.
He outranges and outdamages her so much it's not even funny.

The best strategy and maybe the only one to go with in this case is to ABUSE frame traps.
Yes, that's right. Get in his face, spam those -2 on blocks and keep... attacking!
It might be his only weakness but Asta is really slow and therefore weak against this.

Now I can't explain to you how to do this properly but you get the picture. I'm not talking about mashing buttons but to make smart choices with frame traps/evading moves.

Or feel free to try to space/turtle him with Lexia and watch as you die after 2 mistakes or get your guard broke every 30 seconds.
 

EmptySky00

[09] Warrior
I don't know how effective spacing is since he outranges you tbh. And I think turtling would just invite his guard breaks and grab game to eat you. Maybe he'll just keel under pressure because of the speed issue and you have to be relentless with it and anticipate his counterattacks so you don't get your spine ripped out. Basically frame traps like you said. Sadly though I can only play online and Astaroths, while they annoy me to no end, don't really show themselves to me too often. At least not often enough to get proper matchup experience.