Matchup Discussion: Leixia VS. Astaroth

Honestly, the biggest problem I see with asta is his Guard Burst game. Any Guard Burst gives him nearly a free round on walled, RO stages as long as he has meter. My advice would be to learn his oki game and when you can roll away from 44B/22B because if he makes you block that enough, a final round comeback is near impossible.
 
Pretty stupid that he has a grab that works in any position. When he lands the air grab can you break it? You could 9B and mash A if you can. But actually I don't think you can because then the combos that work with the air grab wouldn't be viable at all.
 
Man that's stupid. e_e I think there should be a dif input for the air grab rather than "Lol let's make A grab have an arbitrary double utility with the ability to grab jumping attacks so if the opponent makes a read and jumps, they get hit."

TC moves ftw. I was playing an Asta who low grabbed me out of Nemesis Step e_e I wtf'd. Was not funny. Ok it kinda was.
 
So a big issue I'm having with Astaroth is the pushback on most of his moves. Every time I close the gap he makes me block something that throws me back again. If I try charging him I get slammed obv. What move/method should I use to get close so I can pressure him?
 
Just guard not only makes moves more unsafe, it also completely nullifies pushback. This is one of the reasons I keep stressing JG in this matchup. Staying close enough to work her fast attacks and frame traps is the only way to win here, and JG really is the best way to do that. Of course JG is easier said than done, especially in tournaments or laggy online matches.

Other than tons of practice against all his pushback moves and zoning moves, I don't know how else to help here.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
So it looks like 6A+B is... pretty good against this guy. Thoughts?
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Having a solid way to make him taste his own medicine? Sign me up...
I am now a firm believer that 44B+K is ridiculously useful for it's aGI-protected, extended backstep. use 6A+B on him then 44B+K and you've suddenly got enough breathing room to stay alive. Granted, you have to get in again, but it's better to reset the situation than stay in his face when he's getting good reads up close.
 
You won't even have to even do that, really. 6A+B at the proper range will push him back too far to do his CH fishers (6K 6B) or even throw. He has to step forward to try a throw. Also, it's a great JG bait for everything else fast. Not to mention it kills armor.

I'm starting to think 6A+B is just as good as 3B for everything except whiff punishes. It TCs the same, Breaks guard the same, pushes back and is safe.
 
Seditious said:
Having a solid way to make him taste his own medicine? Sign me up...
I am now a firm believer that 44B+K is ridiculously useful for it's aGI-protected, extended backstep. use 6A+B on him then 44B+K and you've suddenly got enough breathing room to stay alive. Granted, you have to get in again, but it's better to reset the situation than stay in his face when he's getting good reads up close.
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i did tell you how good that auto gi is,at least somone took the time to test it out.
its just one of my many useful suggestion,
that often get over looked.
and yes i also said 6A+b is also very good against zoners,it also beats most if not every option nightmare has when he tries to turtle using NS stance.
regarding 22b you can auto GI with 44B+K on reaction his 22B and 22B BE.
it a shame you cant use it to GI the second hit of bull rush like alpha pat can,but hes the only character in the game with an AGI that counters 66k BE.
The main thing anyone using leixia vs this guy,should be doing is dont let him escape.
when you knock him down or get a combo always use an advancing attack,like 66b, 66aa and 66k.
the mistake i see a lot players using leixia vs zoners, is they are not aware of there spacing.
they often fail to realize those cowards back stepping.
the key to beating these guys is to always chase them down giving them no time to set up.
 
Therenovator said:
and yes i also said 6A+b is also very good against zoners,it also beats most if not every option nightmare has when he tries to turtle using NS stance.
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I didn't say this was good against zoners, just that it seems really effective vs Astaroth. It's actually not that good vs NM unless you're punishing blocked 3B into stance. There are a few of his stances where 6A+B gets beat. Leixia will beat Asta at mid range and this move does that.
 
I've tried some things in training mode, and I think it's even worse than I expected at first sight.

One of the biggest problems for Leixia is 66K BE. It absorbs everything except 2K, it even wins against 2-hit-moves like 3A+B. So what does Leixia have that stops him from doing it? She has 6KK and 66BB, but both of them lose to 22B BE for insane damage.
It feels to me as if all Asta has to do in this match-up is to use 66K BE, 22B BE, 44A and throws.

Pokes and highs like AA or 66AA get destroyed by 66K BE, launchers by 22B BE, evades and 8WR moves like 22B get destroyed by 44A. And tracking pokes like 66K that would prevent him from stepping (22B), get completely absorbed by 66K BE for free 22B (BE). Not to mention that his guard burst is equal to Leixia's in terms of breaking the guard, but sooooo much more rewarded by the damage he gets.

Well, and if Leixia does the right choice, like stepping and whiffpunishing 22B BE (which is difficult due to tracking), or JG'ing/stepping the second hit of 66K BE: What does she get? 45dmg whiffpunishment, which is easily doubled if Astaroth guessed correctly.

What do you think? I think this match-up is already decided only by looking at the numbers.
 
Kalas said:
snip
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Who started the whole snip thing? So elegant. An internet hero from days long past I suppose.

Anyway, positives for Leixia in this match:

FC 3B is really great in this match. You can punish Asta's grab attempts relatively easily thanks to FC 3B, and this leaves him going for low grabs and mid pokes if you crouch a lot.

From close range spam also works pretty well. Some single hit moves which get absorbed by 66K BE have fast enough recovery to allow you to block afterwards anyway. And 2K is pretty useful against him anyway as he can only really do his own 2K, crouch grabs, or jump attacks to stop you spamming your fastest moves.

I think JG is better against 22B BE because stepping requires more precise timing. The BE visual effect makes it easier to react to than normal 22B.

Working against her, just like in other match-ups, is the insane damage difference. One 22B BE or CH 6B or CE can effectively end a round.

Leixia doesn't really have many good matchups, but I don't think this is the worst. The nice thing imo is that if Asta whiffs when trying to zone you, his recovery is quite bad meaning you can safely get into range, unlike against some other characters who can zone you and backstep all day (this imo is what really makes Leixia bad)
 
Age_of_Truth said:
I think JG is better against 22B BE because stepping requires more precise timing. The BE visual effect makes it easier to react to than normal 22B.
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I think the move is really stupid and works well in this match-up. Especially on wakeup, since it has 100% tracking it catches all rolls into launch. So most of the time you have to block, which damages your guard quite a bit and pushes you out on the other side of the screen.

Doesn't iFC3B get absorbed by 66K BE? Good thing is that since 66K BE is so "spammable' in this matchup, it can be used to Leixia's advantage because it's easy to punish it on block. But then again, how well she can punish him on step/JG? 40-50 dmg ..

Imo this is a 7:3 matchup.
 
Ring said:
...Imo this is a 7:3 matchup.
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22B BE is great on wakeup yeah, but that's the same against the whole cast, he can use his meter for guard burst pressure if he wants.

Let's not forget that he needs meter to do these moves he can 'spam'. If he wants to use meter on guesses then he can.

I wasn't talking about iFC3B, I was talking about FC 3B as a whiff punish after ducking a throw.

7-3 sounds extreme but I'd like to play the match-up more before offering my own opinion.
 
Ring said:
Imo this is a 7:3 matchup.
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For how incredibly damaging Astaroth is, I don't see a lot of people playing him outside of 3-bar, hurr-durr online, " i has teh trows!" As nice as that is, it also makes it quite scary to go into a tournament fight against him when you're not experienced with him.

7:3? I don't know that I'd weigh it quite that heavily in Asta's favor, but I feel that it definitely falls in the 6:4 to 6.5:3.5 realm. Leixia's frame traps really rape this guy when you use them intelligently. Being at -2 against him really isn't all that scary. 4A into 2A is a great way to put a lot of TC frames out there and fish for a throw attempt of your own.

3A, A_FC2K_WR K_WR A_Throw is a great shenanigan against Mr. Tall & Green. Work the 2K until he gets pissy and wants to crouch throw you, then mix it up and go for a throw or WR K for another frame trap.

3K, 44B+K when you need breathing room.

I've been slowly working on a technique I call "Advancing Just Guard". I was poking around the tactics forum when I read that forward step is G-cancelable at any time in the animation. Turns out, it's also JG cancelable. If you block one of Asta's moves, step forward once or twice and buffer in a standard safe-JG option select toward the end of the step animation for a solid opportunity to get in and wreck his shit.

I feel as though Leixia's aGI's have some good setups for this matchup. Someone should test and report back soon. I'll go spend some time testing her options and report back when I've got something moderately useful...



...Some time later... Well, my results weren't as promising as I had hoped. I found a few things, but nothing really solid.

4A+B aGI interrupts 6AA, AA, AB, and 1K(blocked) A

44B+K beats out 4B and 4 [ B], but is difficult to use on reaction.

44B+K automatically beats 4B after any -2 frame traps, 3K, 6A, Jump B, 2K (hit), FC2K (hit), 2A, FC2A, 3B+K K (second strike), 44K, and 8B+K.

22_88B+K beats out quite a few of his best horizontals, but there aren't many automatic timing setups where it would be logical for Astaroth to throw out a horizontal. At least, none that I can find, anyway. Still, 44[A] is aGI'able on reaction with it.

To practice against some of Asta's Zoning, set the dummy to do a sequence of alternating A+B, 2_8A+B's. Now attempt to step in after each one and JG-OS the next strike.
 
Kalas said:
One of the biggest problems for Leixia is 66K BE. It absorbs everything except 2K
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I don't see any way this can be a 7:3 matchup for Asta. Leixia has two key moves in particular that give her better control. 6A+B and 1B+K.

6A+B is the move that Astaroth struggles with the most. Why?
#1. It blows up Armor, so 66K BE will be CH'd for 42 dmg and force blocks with 1B and iFC 3B.
#2. On block it pushes Asta out of Throw range and into "Leixia range". (She destroys him at mid range combat. the only problem is maintaining that space. This is the move to do it with.)
#3. it TCs, so Throw setups get launched, similar to 3B but better on block.

If you abuse this move (intelligently, of course) it shouldn't get stepped, and allows Leixia to place Asta outside his comfort zone freely.

1B+K is her best evasion in this matchup. It is especially useful when Asta tries to bully you with bullrush frame traps and BB6 and 44[A] GB traps. Using 1B+K here limits his options to 44A and crouch throw attempts. Everything else including CE throw will be TC'd or stepped by 1B+K.

As for his 22B on wakeup. There are quite a few KNDs where you can just do wakeup WS B(BE) to shut that nonsense down. Normally with the nerf to the evasion this isn't recommended but it seems to do well vs 22B and 44B from Astas.

I'm considering making a video on it since I've been playing this matchup quite a bit lately. Played some extensive sets against solid players. I almost think it's even, but if it is in Asta's favor, it's surely not overwhelming, imo.
 
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